23 minutes ago, ForceM said:

I never got what Blail even likes anyway. Generics but now no swarms? No aces iirc.

But he is probably right with x7 defenders. They should outjoust Crackswarms easily.

Its not about what I like. I'm just giving my opinions. Seems like I'm balanced enough you guys can't figure out my biases.

I still do believe post-crackshot, PS4 naked ties are the boring-est thing in the world. I didn't say they were not difficult. Just... boring. I don't find tie swarm play that appealing.

Maybe its cuz I'm a huge teacher of blocking in my meta that its nothing new, but beyond blocking post cracks hot, idk what crazy things I'm supposed to do with naked PS4 ties that get slapped usually in one attack.

4 hours ago, Cerve said:

I find that the only one turret who seems nearly to be broken (not broken in my opinion but that's the topic so..) is the TLT. And there's 1 little change that will fix it, without touching other turrets.

Get the R3 bonus against turrets.

TLT is the only one R2-3. And if you get a +1 agi when defending against it, that will be enough to consider the TLT as a fine turret.

Talonbane Cobra would definitely like this.

12 hours ago, Talamare said:

Blaster Turret starts looking a lot better with the rest brought down.

Harrison Bergeron would disagree with you.

11 hours ago, LordBlades said:

What makes you think this will simply not make people abandon secondary turrets altogether ?

I'm pretty sure that is the goal.

While I can understand many people's dislike of turrets, I don't think that they are all that powerful these days. TLT may need some tweaking, as it eats large/low-agi and huge ships for lunch while I think it was intended to be effective against smaller, high agility ships, like a long range autoblaster. Otherwise, you do not see many of the other turrets as is, other than the occasional ion turret or blaster ghost.

13 hours ago, LordBlades said:

There's only so much you can do with the ship itself. Most of the mechanics have already been explored in all directions (dials, hull/shield, green/red dice combinations) to the point FFG feels the need to add 0 point titles (functionally part of the ship itself) to most ships in order to include additional ship rules to make the ships more unique.

I disagree. They've been coming out with a myriad of new maneuvers, mobile firing arcs, different interesting combinations of stats. Titles were originally a way to designate some unique ship (like the falcon) but now they are mostly fixes and sometimes a cool variant. The 0 point titles/modifications are really more about some ships/abilities being overcosted than anything else.

13 hours ago, LordBlades said:

In order to thrive, x-wing needs design space to grow into, and most of that design space lies with upgrade cards, as upgrade cards are 'free' (you can write anything you want on them, as long as the mechanics is balanced). As such, cards IMO will play an ever increasing role in X-wing. The era of naked generics has been gone for a while. Even TIE swarms have relied heavily on a card (crack shot) for the last year or so of their life.

partially agree, I like the extra flavor cards provide. I think xwing is a better game for it. But they are not necessary for a good game. As someone else mentioned Wings of Glory is a great game as well and doesn't have all the crazy cards. There is plenty more design space... not only in the ships themselves, but in different formats, mission objectives, terrain, and mechanics. The game does not have to pave over all the previous work that has been done to make it a complex, interesting dogfighting game in favor of printing paper that people must collect to win.

13 hours ago, LordBlades said:

Auto-take cards have been there for almost as long as the game itself. PtL is a wave 3 card IIRC and when was the last time you saw a Soontir without PtL? It's likely that some pilots are designed with their 'auto-take' cards already in mind.

That is a bad thing. And i doubt that cards are designed with an overpowered combo like PTL soontir in mind. Why would they put all the effort into also designing a card like, 'fel's wrath'? why even bother to test it and print it?

13 hours ago, LordBlades said:

FFG is a business. As such, they want to keep people buying and to that goal, a slight power creep (or at least mechanics creep) is beneficial.

As i said before I'm totally understanding that as a business a controlled, managed power creep might be better for their bottom line. But it can also kill a game if it gets out of hand. Remember star trek attack wing? besides their crappy paintjobs (that they are starting to fix), the game had a horrible reputation for power creep and power imbalance. As a result it is getting punished by consumers. Consumers whom, no doubt check all the internet forums for people complaining about stuff.

17 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Its not about what I like. I'm just giving my opinions. Seems like I'm balanced enough you guys can't figure out my biases.

I still do believe post-crackshot, PS4 naked ties are the boring-est thing in the world. I didn't say they were not difficult. Just... boring. I don't find tie swarm play that appealing.

Maybe its cuz I'm a huge teacher of blocking in my meta that its nothing new, but beyond blocking post cracks hot, idk what crazy things I'm supposed to do with naked PS4 ties that get slapped usually in one attack.

Hey you might find them boring, but in the same breath you acknowledge they are difficult. Difficult to play as in... they require skill to play. Can you understand how some people might like to play a game that requires skill? or is it because there is no variety within the list that you find it boring? Many Imperial players love the thematic element of playing as a horde of faceless, expendable TIE recruits.

14 minutes ago, Meade said:

Hey you might find them boring, but in the same breath you acknowledge they are difficult. Difficult to play as in... they require skill to play. Can you understand how some people might like to play a game that requires skill?

I don't think he's knocking anyone or disparaging the list at all, it's just not a style he finds fun. There's little interaction or cool scenarios other than "fly good, shoot things," and I enjoy flying swarms too but could see it being boring for someone.

1 minute ago, HammerGibbens said:

I don't think he's knocking anyone or disparaging the list at all, it's just not a style he finds fun. There's little interaction or cool scenarios other than "fly good, shoot things," and I enjoy flying swarms too but could see it being boring for someone.

not really trying to be disparaging, it's just an argument. I'm arguing against the idea that flying TIE swarms is boring. If they require skill to fly, it's not a stretch to imagine that some people might like to fly them.

Fair enough but he did say "I don't find tie swarm play that appealing." not that everyone should find them boring.

5 hours ago, mkevans80 said:

If every other turret was brought down to Blaster Turret's level, I could get behind that!

Would you make the Y-Wing title allow you to ignore the focus token requirement, or would you leave it as-is?

I would introduce other cards that combo'ed with Turrets in interesting and meaningful ways.

For example, maybe a Modification that was similar to Deadeye but in reverse. So instead of needing a Focus, you need a Target Lock. As well as the Target Lock doesn't get spent on the Attack.
"When Attacking with a Turret Secondary, Require Focus becomes Require Target Lock, If you have a Target Lock on the target, you do not need to spend a focus to perform the attack"

Why? Because there are already 2 YWing pilots who combos with Target Locks.

17 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Not every game has ion weapons, not every game has a ship with a cloaking action.

And not every game would have a ship with a U-turn option. So, I'm not sure I can go there with you. . .

14 hours ago, LordBlades said:

What makes you think this will simply not make people abandon secondary turrets altogether ?

That would be my thought. I thought turrets were stupid when I couldn't use the Focus to modify the attack.

13 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

And really honestly, I think people think theyre boring. Who in your metas wants to play them?

My meta is Epic. . .I fly generics all the time. Mostly, I just want them to have an EPT to fill for "flavor."

8 hours ago, heychadwick said:

Blaster Turret is fine if you allow them to use the Focus for the attack. They should make that change.

But then how is that different than all the other turrets?

8 hours ago, Lampyridae said:

Don't forget that TLT is what makes some marginal ships (Y-Wing, HWK-290) viable again.

Yep.

So imho i think the meta is really fine, and no further nerfs are needed!

i think we will now see a rough parity between factions with Scum still slightly in the lead.

Unless someone discovers a really broken Combo tomorrow that nobody had on the screen. I think we are in one of the best metas we ever had.

A few more options on less played ships would be the only thing appreciated right now.

This is in reference to Blaster Turrets getting to use the Focus to adjust their attack roles.

15 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

But then how is that different than all the other turrets?

The difference is that there is no other turret with the same stats. The Blaster turret is R1-2 and rolls 3 red dice. It costs 4 pts. No other turret has those stats. The Dorsal Turret is R1-2, rolls 2 red dice, and gives a bonus at R1 of another red die. It costs 2 pts. The Ion Cannon Turret rolls 3 red dice and fires R1-2, but it doesn't do more than 1 damage. It costs 5 pts. If you remove the Focus requirement (or I think just give it the ability to use that Focus when it fires) then you still have a unique and useful turret. There is no turret like it.

41 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

This is in reference to Blaster Turrets getting to use the Focus to adjust their attack roles.

The difference is that there is no other turret with the same stats. The Blaster turret is R1-2 and rolls 3 red dice. It costs 4 pts. No other turret has those stats. The Dorsal Turret is R1-2, rolls 2 red dice, and gives a bonus at R1 of another red die. It costs 2 pts. The Ion Cannon Turret rolls 3 red dice and fires R1-2, but it doesn't do more than 1 damage. It costs 5 pts. If you remove the Focus requirement (or I think just give it the ability to use that Focus when it fires) then you still have a unique and useful turret. There is no turret like it.

Honestly, the current Blaster Turret is simply a piece of junk. 3 unmodified reds (because you used your Focus just to shoot) will get you 1.5 damage on average. I would rather just pay 1 more pt and get an Ion Turret that gets 1 damage + 1 ion token and leaves me to have my action for whatever's needed.

It seemed like a cute idea to use with the Moldy Crow who can squirrel away Focus tokens and came with Recon Spec to build up some to pay and still have some to use, but you are just throwing so many points and slots at it by that point that you may as well get a better turret.

14 minutes ago, kris40k said:

Honestly, the current Blaster Turret is simply a piece of junk. 3 unmodified reds (because you used your Focus just to shoot) will get you 1.5 damage on average. I would rather just pay 1 more pt and get an Ion Turret that gets 1 damage + 1 ion token and leaves me to have my action for whatever's needed.

It seemed like a cute idea to use with the Moldy Crow who can squirrel away Focus tokens and came with Recon Spec to build up some to pay and still have some to use, but you are just throwing so many points and slots at it by that point that you may as well get a better turret.

I remember thinking the exact same thing when I first started exploring turrets with Scum (since I usually am Imp, it was something new).