I don't complain about the result of the nerf from a game mechanic/meta point of view, it is what it is. But I loved the flavor of the original version, which is lost with the new one, and that makes me a little sad. You see, the idea was that the x7 Defenders are so incredibly fast, that you have a hard time hitting them because they go from point A to point B faster than any other ship. Hence the evade token: it's an effect that's built-in. Whereas the evade action is something the pilot actively does to avoid enemy fire; it's another concept entirely.

The defender loses all advantage from going incredibly fast when the pilot is desperately trying not to crash into asteroids or other vehicles, or when the ship is pushed to the breaking point (stressed).

Fluff checks out.

Oh well.

1 minute ago, WAC47 said:

The defender loses all advantage from going incredibly fast when the pilot is desperately trying not to crash into asteroids or other vehicles, or when the ship is pushed to the breaking point (stressed).

Fluff checks out.

Fluff is what you make it.

If just going fast was enough to make you difficult to hit, then all defenders (and indeed, all ships going at speed 3+) would get a free evade for doing so.

2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Fluff is what you make it.

^This is so true.

Especially with Star Wars. The whole point is to engage your imagination. Whatever justification you come up with to explain the crazy combos that come about in this game is perfectly in line with the spirit of the galaxy.

I'll take balance and good mechanics over 'flavor' any day of the week.

Personally, I'm more upset by the fact they made another two-pilot ship by leaning a little too hard on /x7. If you arn't Vessery or Ryad, you're done.

Actually, the Defender is no faster than the E-Wing or A-Wing, and both of those have better dials. I think the un-blockable and un-stressable Evade made it unique. I think the OP might be on to something; the Imperials top ship, no longer is on top; the Defender was on the positive side of a knife edge in being really good in the meta. I think this seemingly small downgrade is actually a massive nerf.....I think the Defender's run is over.

5 minutes ago, MalusCalibur said:

Personally, I'm more upset by the fact they made another two-pilot ship by leaning a little too hard on /x7. If you arn't Vessery or Ryad, you're done.

I disagree entirely. Rexler and Maarek are still solid. They have the edge on pilot skill, their abilities aren't terrible (particularly with the right EPT (Rexpertise is nice! as long as there's no stress)), and in particular, they give the edge in defender mirrors - if it comes down to defender versus defender, having higher PS is important, and critically, being *worth more points* is extremely valuable. If neither of you can kill each other (and 2 /x7s can often not kill each other), the one who's worth more points wins...

I don't just tolerate the nerf. I love the nerf.

As a pre-vet player, the X7 title is still beyond my wildest dreams as an upgrade. It still makes the Delta a terror of a jouster. It still makes the aces worthy of dropping points on, without that nagging feeling that they'll have exploded long before those points have made their return on your investment. And it marks the return of counterplay, which has been sorely lacking from the game recently. X-Wing needs control and blocking to make it the game it is. It's also important that we can slap a defender on the table without compromising the fun of our opponents, or provoking salty eye-rolls.

The Defender is dead, long live the Defender.

2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

If just going fast was enough to make you difficult to hit, then all defenders (and indeed, all ships going at speed 3+) would get a free evade for doing so.

It's not the speed of the maneuver, it's the time the x7 Defender supposedly required to accomplish the maneuver compared to another ship (or heavier Defenders that have cannon space and such). It's like, every car can go to 60 mph, but how much or how little time you get to reach 60 mph is the key. That time of course can't be appreciated in the game, because you don't actually see the ships move (and turns all take the same time, whether a ship does a straight 5 or remains stationary), hence the token, that was a great, flavorful design that they reverted. Now it's just yet another free action like many. It's a pity they couldn't make such a different concept work, balance-wise (it also speaks to the limits of the game mechanics somewhat).

Personally I think it speaks to peoples' creativity or lack thereof that they can come up with flavour to match mechanics rather than grumping when mechanics don't fit their preconceived notions of flavour.

Bit late to do this but i kinda wish the "Evade Action" wasnt even a thing and the x7 title was just a general game mechanic, denying large ships of course (if someone is bigger, its easier to hit no matter how fast it is). Plus, it would add negative to large ships that is actually, you know, a NEGATIVE?

8 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Personally I think it speaks to peoples' creativity or lack thereof that they can come up with flavour to match mechanics rather than grumping when mechanics don't fit their preconceived notions of flavour.

In that sense, good on you @Kumagoro for coming up for a fluff reason for the distinction in the first place. But as with any living game, understanding of what the game mechanics mean "in universe" is going to need to evolve as the game does.

It's so fast that a T-70 can get further with a 4 forward + Boost.

2 hours ago, Kumagoro said:

I don't complain about the result of the nerf from a game mechanic/meta point of view, it is what it is. But I loved the flavor of the original version, which is lost with the new one, and that makes me a little sad. You see, the idea was that the x7 Defenders are so incredibly fast, that you have a hard time hitting them because they go from point A to point B faster than any other ship. Hence the evade token: it's an effect that's built-in. Whereas the evade action is something the pilot actively does to avoid enemy fire; it's another concept entirely.

I agree. I wish that overlapping obstacles or ships prevented the evade token, but that it was still assigned and not an action. Basically, the TIE Defender goes really fast and is super evasive, like you said, but if something gets in its way, it has to slow down to not hit it with full force, allowing other ships to hit it more easily. I'm against TIE x/7s being weak to stress mechanics, which is why I don't like it being a free action, but your explanation as to why it shouldn't be an action is spot-on.

5 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

I disagree entirely. Rexler and Maarek are still solid. They have the edge on pilot skill, their abilities aren't terrible (particularly with the right EPT (Rexpertise is nice! as long as there's no stress)), and in particular, they give the edge in defender mirrors - if it comes down to defender versus defender, having higher PS is important, and critically, being *worth more points* is extremely valuable. If neither of you can kill each other (and 2 /x7s can often not kill each other), the one who's worth more points wins...

They're suboptimal now; the problem is they were suboptimal before too. They might have been closer to the competitive standard before, but realistically they were still below Vessary/Rhyas (who were above the curve) and therefore not an optimal choice. The problem the game has always had is simply that the game churns out more pilots per expansion than ships you field in a single list. Half the pilots are generally invalidated out of the box by definition, and trying to argue against changes for the sake of the weaker ones is just using them as a shield. Realistically, they were just as invalid before as they are now if you really want to optimize your points.

6 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

Actually, the Defender is no faster than the E-Wing or A-Wing, and both of those have better dials. I think the un-blockable and un-stressable Evade made it unique. I think the OP might be on to something; the Imperials top ship, no longer is on top; the Defender was on the positive side of a knife edge in being really good in the meta. I think this seemingly small downgrade is actually a massive nerf.....I think the Defender's run is over.

And what imperial ship is now superior to the defender in his range of points?

Luckily the Imperials had many good contenders in that range of 30-40 points, Vader, Juno, Inquisitor, Carnor, Soontir, Duchess, Tomax, Whisper, Echo...
Some of them are now obviously superior to a similary costed Vessery, Ryad, Rexler or Maarek?

I hate the recent FAQ. For multiple reasons. But there we are.

2 hours ago, LunarSol said:

They're suboptimal now; the problem is they were suboptimal before too. They might have been closer to the competitive standard before, but realistically they were still below Vessary/Rhyas (who were above the curve) and therefore not an optimal choice. The problem the game has always had is simply that the game churns out more pilots per expansion than ships you field in a single list. Half the pilots are generally invalidated out of the box by definition, and trying to argue against changes for the sake of the weaker ones is just using them as a shield. Realistically, they were just as invalid before as they are now if you really want to optimize your points.

As noted, there's a solid logic for using them involving counterplaying other defenders. They're never not going to be decent at killing other stuff, and sacrificing a bit of overall power to win the mirror is a good way to optimise a strong ship, c.f. the guy who was running fat han with... I wanna say gunner rather than 3PO... back in the Phantom Menace era to good effect.

I'm not remotely trying to argue against the changes, the changes are welcome, and I run defenders frequently.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Ghost have the evade action solely to imply how heavily armored it is?