Prior to The Great Nerfing of 2017, I was honestly concerned for the future of the game. It's hard to argue those concerns were unfounded or should have been suppressed for some reason. Probably not much call for "Save X-wing" threads at the current moment though.

The state of the game is solid. It does need some help and improvement, but I in no way think that the end is near. How about instead of save x-wing, we say improve x-wing?

The T-65 x-wing itself needs help. One of the iconic ships of star wars, and the ship the game is named after, rarely sees play anymore. So maybe when we see save x-wing, they are talking about the ship itself?

4 hours ago, Verlaine said:

I can understand that you disagree with the sentiment, but why do you want the threads to stop? Do you find it difficult to avoid reading these threads?

Love the engaging question!

I have found that there are people, especially people on the forums of the internet, who catch onto other people's ideas. When you post a thread titled, "do you think they could save x-Wing if they did _____", there's an underlying assumption there. The premise is that a change could be made, but the reason is no longer, "I find this to be somehow not good", and is now instead "the game is doomed and if they don't change this it will die."

Its an extremely negative starting point, creates hysteria, and it's based on an individuals experience not empirical data. Data suggests that this is still one of the best selling, most popular, war based tabletop miniature games in the world. As some have pointed out, it is struggling in their part of the world, and it's certainly dismaying to hear that. But that's not a universal experience, and these threads are becoming more popular and frequent certainly.

Youve heard of self fulfilling prophecy? It feels like that. That's why I advocate for a more reasonable approach.

Jacob

34 minutes ago, jkokura said:

Its an extremely negative starting point, creates hysteria, and it's based on an individuals experience not empirical data. Data suggests that this is still one of the best selling, most popular, war based tabletop miniature games in the world. As some have pointed out, it is struggling in their part of the world, and it's certainly dismaying to hear that. But that's not a universal experience, and these threads are becoming more popular and frequent certainly.

So it doesn't look like the threads are damaging the game somehow. Does that mean you are concerned about the general ambiance on this forum (and not much more)?

Rather than create hysteria, I think the complaining serves to blow off steam. Do you have any facts that support your notion that hysteria is created here?

8 minutes ago, Verlaine said:

So it doesn't look like the threads are damaging the game somehow. Does that mean you are concerned about the general ambiance on this forum (and not much more)?

Rather than create hysteria, I think the complaining serves to blow off steam. Do you have any facts that support your notion that hysteria is created here?

You'd like me to quote the sociological reference sources about how negative statements impact group thinking? I think the evidence for this lays both inside the obvious and in the more academic realms. But to be honest, I can see your point. However, I also see you're a long time forum member and user, as am I. Do you disagree that the complaining over the years here has typically been polarizing, over dramatized, and generally ineffective toward creating positive solutions to real world problems?

I'm not really interested in arguing. My point here is that sensationalized and hysterical thread titles are overboard and I'd like to see them go away. They aren't needed. If anything, the points they make will be ignored rather than accepted.

Jacob

31 minutes ago, jkokura said:

I'm not really interested in arguing. My point here is that sensationalized and hysterical thread titles are overboard and I'd like to see them go away. They aren't needed. If anything, the points they make will be ignored rather than accepted.

I'm with you Jacob.

I would also like to see an end to "click bait" threads where the title does not reflect the content, threads titled like trash-net stoopidity, and any thread started by Shadow345.

I do find it kind of funny that I just finished reading this thread:

How do you save the game in your community?

Which started with this post:

On 3/5/2017 at 0:27 AM, AdamGATX105 said:

You see a lot of fix/save topics on here these days and this one is a little different. In my local area X wing has died out and I'm having a horrible time finding any other players. Even my local store is getting away from it they focus more on magic and other card games and have no plans to push x wing anytime soon. We have a local Facebook page with 40 members but only one or two active. I've tried reaching out and even lurking at the store for players no one is interested. How do you save the game in your community?

I mean...I guess it is dying in one area, at least.

I do get your point about feeding the concept that it's dying. I think dying areas can be saved once the local scene can agree upon what makes the game fun, and focus on that aspect.

13 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I do find it kind of funny that I just finished reading this thread:

How do you save the game in your community?

Which started with this post:

I mean...I guess it is dying in one area, at least.

I do get your point about feeding the concept that it's dying. I think dying areas can be saved once the local scene can agree upon what makes the game fun, and focus on that aspect.

I can say that my area has a community that is stronger than ever, I don't get to play much anymore, but there are usually 6-10 people at the weekly tournaments, with a common 3-4 core players. There are so many new players it is awesome. This is on top of a new LGS opening up on the other side of town (where several players live) and it has not reduced numbers.

1 minute ago, Cusm said:

I can say that my area has a community that is stronger than ever, I don't get to play much anymore, but there are usually 6-10 people at the weekly tournaments, with a common 3-4 core players. There are so many new players it is awesome. This is on top of a new LGS opening up on the other side of town (where several players live) and it has not reduced numbers.

Oh, I'm not saying that the game has a problem one way or the other. I just thought it was funny to read one post about how it's dying in one area and then read a thread about how it's not dying.

I will say that I think about 50% of people who get into X-wing end up dropping out after a few months. That's how it is in my area. Still means we have enough to keep going, but I do hate to see those that quit. It's usually something that can be fixed by just playing Casual games as those that quit just don't want to play at tournament level.

3 hours ago, You Look Like A Nail said:

I think he's clear that he isn't opposed to the content of the threads, but just titles that assume and assert that X-Wing is in need of saving because something something imminent doom.

I like fix threads! I have ideas for making Punishers good ! But X-Wing is fine either way. The game is healthy, maybe healthier than it's ever been. Honestly all the "save the X-Wing" threads would probably be okay if the doom-mongery was dialed down a couple of notches, particularly when composing the title, which everyone sees. It's not good to have your forum full of post titles suggesting the end times are at hand (at least, when the end times are not actually at hand).

FTFY

1 minute ago, heychadwick said:

Oh, I'm not saying that the game has a problem one way or the other. I just thought it was funny to read one post about how it's dying in one area and then read a thread about how it's not dying.

I will say that I think about 50% of people who get into X-wing end up dropping out after a few months. That's how it is in my area. Still means we have enough to keep going, but I do hate to see those that quit. It's usually something that can be fixed by just playing Casual games as those that quit just don't want to play at tournament level.

I agree with you and was just adding to your thought with the opposite experience than the one you quoted. Each community is different and I have seen the xwing drop out of the tournaments. I know locally we have several home players and many like myself that don't make the tournaments but still play. I like your comment in the other thread, find out WHY the community has died.

As someone who's been heavily involved in the secondary market of X-Wing, I can say that it looks like we're on the cusp of the X-Wing bubble bursting. The number of collections for sale on the secondary market is high, but most importantly it also appears that they are going for far lower % of total value now than they have in the past. Also, the secondary market for tournament prizes is waaaay down. Last year, you could pretty much sell loot instantly at good prices, but now the same or comparable prizes often linger on sale sites (auction sites, FB groups, etc.) for far, far lower prices than they were commanding last year.

Personally, this suggests to me that supply is up and demand is way down, which looks like a bubble pop. I actually went ahead and sold all of my tourney loot and all of the excess ships I didn't think I'd fly much a few months ago, because I'm pretty sure in another wave or two if trends continue they'll be worth so, so much less.

I've also been involved in this community since Wave 1's release at Gencon, and I can say that the overwhelming negativity about the game and its direction which seems to define nearly ever podcast and every other forum topic at this point is pretty unique to the past year, and in my opinion is probably indicative of something more than just unfounded alarmism, as the OP and others suggest.

the Secondary Market might be at a bubble, but the game itself is doing fine. I have seen a fair amount of collections for sale, and the prices on a few are quite high, just this past week I saw 3-5 going well over $500 maybe up to $800 range versus a few months ago when I saw them between 200 and 500...

Also the game itself doesnt need to be saved, its quite strong, it does need some fixes and actual campaign component. I am with the OP, using save the game is confusing it does imply the game in danger of being discontinued. Instead how about "How to Build our X-wing Communities" I think that needs be addressed, maybe better marketing. Based on the activity of several Big FB groups (Nova and the UK group for sure) the game is growing strong in The eastern US and UK/Ireland...

2 minutes ago, jake1976 said:

the Secondary Market might be at a bubble, but the game itself is doing fine. I have seen a fair amount of collections for sale, and the prices on a few are quite high, just this past week I saw 3-5 going well over $500 maybe up to $800 range versus a few months ago when I saw them between 200 and 500...

Also the game itself doesnt need to be saved, its quite strong, it does need some fixes and actual campaign component. I am with the OP, using save the game is confusing it does imply the game in danger of being discontinued. Instead how about "How to Build our X-wing Communities" I think that needs be addressed, maybe better marketing. Based on the activity of several Big FB groups (Nova and the UK group for sure) the game is growing strong in The eastern US and UK/Ireland...

Agree to disagree about both points, I suppose.

Save x-wing, everyone is still playing ;( please save it ;(

3 minutes ago, haritos said:

Save x-wing, everyone is still playing ;( please save it ;(

Except not everyone is still playing it. I think that's what some people are saying.

17 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Except not everyone is still playing it. I think that's what some people are saying.

One thing that was apparent at last year's Gencon and this year's Regionals was just how few familiar faces I saw (playing X-Wing) from the earlier days of the community. Quite a few people I was looking forward to seeing and catching up with who I think have moved on a bit from the game, and locally I can think of a dozen or so players that used to be active in the X-Wing community and have since left the game.

X-wings rarely see play in tournament matches. There are plenty in our casual and epic games and they are very good ships partly because I can't get my Imperial tactics right and they rip my TIEs to pieces but also they are so tough with the integrated astromech, all sorts of regen flying around and synergy.

I'm going to be playing this game for years. Even if development stopped tomorrow I've got a galaxy worth of ideas to keep me busy.

13 minutes ago, Sasajak said:

I'm going to be playing this game for years. Even if development stopped tomorrow I've got a galaxy worth of ideas to keep me busy.

Official content is nice, though. . .

I wouldn't dump all my stuff, but without new releases to pique my interest, it's not quite the same.

9 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Official content is nice, though. . .

I wouldn't dump all my stuff, but without new releases to pique my interest, it's not quite the same.

Well maybe I was overstating my position. Just on a bit of a positivity wave right now

X-Wing has pretty much died out in my local area. It's still a fun game, but most players got out of the system as they were not fans of the constant treadmill of purchases required to acquire upgrade cards, and the impression of power creep in the meta (i.e. new releases always seem to have superior rules to older waves). Also, I think there was a lot of hype in the lead-up to the new movie, but after it came out I suspect a bit of SW burnout set in.

6 minutes ago, surfimp said:

X-Wing has pretty much died out in my local area. It's still a fun game, but most players got out of the system as they were not fans of the constant treadmill of purchases required to acquire upgrade cards, and the impression of power creep in the meta (i.e. new releases always seem to have superior rules to older waves). Also, I think there was a lot of hype in the lead-up to the new movie , but after it came out I suspect a bit of SW burnout set in.

I'm sorta dismayed/disappointed to not have seen an X-Wing upgrade + Blue Squadron, more Y-Wing pilots, and a Hammerhead Corvette out of RO. I think that would have gone a long way to keep the old-timers happy and get the new people attracted.

11 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I'm sorta dismayed/disappointed to not have seen an X-Wing upgrade + Blue Squadron, more Y-Wing pilots, and a Hammerhead Corvette out of RO. I think that would have gone a long way to keep the old-timers happy and get the new people attracted.

To be clear, I was talking about Force Awakens. Rogue One precipitated precisely zero games of X-Wing in our already-burnt-out scene.

On 13/03/2017 at 11:33 PM, JayDestroyaC said:

I think the proper catch phrase today is

Make Punishers great again!

If it's good enough for Paris .. it's good enough for Punishers

#prayforpunishers