6 minutes ago, MegaSilver said:

When I say Rebel Captive effect, I mean it forces a difficult decision on the opponent. In the case of Rebel Captive, the first ship to shoot him gets stress. So a ship may neglect to shoot so as to let another ship who can deal with the stress shoots first. Kylo pilot works on a similar principle. Whoever damages him first in a round recieves the condition. It may make the opponent leary to shoot him, especially if they are in the crosshairs to take damage back, much like when you shoot Dengar.

I was talking about Ben Solo crew, he's an action, and appearantly the card that is the biggest problem according to some forum users.

Just now, GrimmyV said:

I was talking about Ben Solo crew, he's an action, and appearantly the card that is the biggest problem according to some forum users.

Ah. Well in that case, yes stress works, but you'll want to get that stress on him before he gets to attack. Stresshogs/mules have Lower PS, so that doesn't work. Asajj activates after he has a chance to do actions. You'll have to find a way to make it through the first turn without getting Kyloed, or make it disadvantageous to use, and then stress him up.

Snapshot and stress bot sound like some good counters that also work against many other types of lists besides RAC Kylo. I just don't see Ren redefining the meta like Triple Toilet Seats did. And it's definitely not even close to Phantom broken.

Got half way through the thread and got bored.

Anyway... I like Kylo. Interesting addition to the game.

"I had to VS something that didn't let me dow what I wanted to do and this upset me".

Your friend probably had a great time blinding you. You won anyway, why are you complaining?

11 hours ago, MegaSilver said:

Though, with the old one you could trigger Gunner effects. The new one you can't.

Which is a relief! My squints always felt so jipped when we got Blinded Pilot on Han, then, "Oh, Luke's shooting you now." This new version is so much better.

5 hours ago, Lightrock said:

The only legitimate complaint about Kylo is that he pushes quite a few ships out of the meta. The list would include Whisper, Corran, Jake/Tycho and Inquisitor. Mid-hp regenerators such as Poe are also affected. Anything that has the effect of narrowing the range of possible choices by making some ships unplayable in a competitive setting is just bad for the game. I think it would be much better if they allowed the Kylo player to choose a pilot card and have the other player suffer the effect of the card in question in addition to the normal damage from the attack but without actually assigning the card to the affected ship . That would leave Kylo with his current utility intact but not allow him to bypass the shields.

All the ships you listed have 3+ agility, and a decent chance to dodge RAC's shot. Poe is the exception. I wouldn't count them out yet. I guess Whisper has only 2 agility against VI RAC, and 4 against Predator RAC.

I gotta say, I'm having a blast flying Kylo pilot, and it makes for some interesting and exciting games for my opponents as well. Really, it's RAC Ren that's so rough. Without that combo, Kylo Crew wouldn't be nearly as reviled. However, that neat little package is virtually the only way to run him in tournaments, which are all about minimizing variance. I can't fault people for using that combo. I got burned by it once, and it made me so mad I couldn't sleep. I spent all night thinking what I could take to combat the monster, while still being true to myself, and playing what I want to play. I came up with a few answers, and am looking forward to testing them out the next time he reads his ugly head.

26 minutes ago, SpectralFremen said:

"I had to VS something that didn't let me dow what I wanted to do and this upset me".

Your friend probably had a great time blinding you. You won anyway, why are you complaining?

Probably because two two times he got blinded, which are missed opportunities to do damage. I've been blinded by him a couple times and still won, but they were tense and close. And I was in the position to do a lot of damage. It doesn't feel cool to be in a great spot for an attack and know that if he crits you, you're not getting a shot back.

Boring outcomes happen, and they've been a part of this game since day 1. Ion Cannon Turret Y-Wing (remember those?) on your 6. A slow, humiliating death is inevitable. Or, flying a pair of Academy TIEs against Luke Skywalker with R2D2.

The same thing in Epic happens with the Ion Cannon Battery. Not much you can do about it.

2 hours ago, Parakitor said:

All the ships you listed have 3+ agility, and a decent chance to dodge RAC's shot. Poe is the exception. I wouldn't count them out yet. I guess Whisper has only 2 agility against VI RAC, and 4 against Predator RAC.

They do stand a decent chance of dodging any single attack, yes. The problem is that it's enough that they fail to dodge 2 attacks throughout the entire game and they're gone. Take Corran for example. The typical Corran is worth 48 points - a massive investment. 3 agi or not, he's gonna take some hits from time to time. The trick to flying him well is to never let him take too much damage in too little time. Instead you use his ability to hit hard when an opportunity presents itself and then you disengage to regenerate before you attack again. If the enemy has Kylo however, it's enough for him to hit Corran twice and he's gone. Even just a single point of damage per attack will suffice. In a competitive setting the mere possibility that some opponents will have Kylo will be enough to eliminate Corran from the meta entirely - no top player will risk spending that many points on a ship that might get countered that hard.

Corran is obviously an extreme example but hardly the only one affected. Whisper gets hit just as bad. Pretty much every single ship worth 30 points or more that only has 2 hull becomes a massive risk to take because if you face Kylo their endurance is practically decreased by at least half and they're just not worth what they cost anymore. The fact that they have high agility ironically makes Kylo's shield bypassing shenanigans even more efficient. They seldom suffer more than one damage from any given attack anyway, so virtually all the damage they take will get right through shields. It also means that if you made a statistic that showed how many attacks you'd need to perform to destroy a ship with and without Kylo, his efficiency would be off the charts for the ships I mentioned.

6 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Ever hear of stress? I've read a rumor that it keeps most ships from using actions.

A myth, considering that inspiring recruit is a thing.

11 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

A myth, considering that inspiring recruit is a thing.

Such a common sight...seriously, where would you put that? I have one list where i have the space, and that is on a puny Jakku Gunrunner that also enables advanced Partybus-ing on his wingman. Don't see it fitting into any Kylo-RAC builds.

17 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

At least Blinded Pilot has been changed since its first iteration. It used to be that if you didn't have a shot, you couldn't flip it face down. Now you can flip it during the combat phase whether you've got something in arc or not.

But conversely, I'm seriously considering running the old deck with RAC because you can HotCoP/Vader/Gunner off old Blinded Pilot. But the converse of that is that Injured Pilot is still a thing in the old deck...

I also dislike Kylo but not because of his ability or the way it works (which sure is annoying) but because it slows the game down a load. This for me is the big problem with it as your opponent has to dig through the deck for cards.

Everybody is saying that Kylo "shuts down a ship's attack 2 turns in a row". So I must be the only one who rolls zero eyeballs with RAC and zero crits with his escort, like, 3 turns in a row. Then I do, and they just evade all. The reliability of Kylo's ability is seriously overrated.

10 minutes ago, John Rainbow said:

I also dislike Kylo but not because of his ability or the way it works (which sure is annoying) but because it slows the game down a load. This for me is the big problem with it as your opponent has to dig through the deck for cards.

Seriously? Looking through a 33-card deck is taking "a load" of time? Dude, it takes about 30 seconds to find a specific card, then shuffle.

3 minutes ago, Kumagoro said:

Seriously? Looking through a 33-card deck is taking "a load" of time? Dude, it takes about 30 seconds to find a specific card, then shuffle.

30 seconds is a lot of faff time for a game where a ship's activation can be entirely dealt with in that time.

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

30 seconds is a lot of faff time for a game where a ship's activation can be entirely dealt with in that time.

For a game that using tournament rules has a time limit of 75 minutes, otherwise it might go on for literally hours?

Yes. 30 seconds per round, every round you use him. And it's partly a psychological thing; making someone do stuff during your activation makes it feel longer for both players even if it's not.

6 hours ago, SpectralFremen said:

"I had to VS something that didn't let me dow what I wanted to do and this upset me".

Your friend probably had a great time blinding you. You won anyway, why are you complaining?

Victory does not, or at least should not, directly correlate to fun/positive play experience. Just because he won the game doesn't mean his frustration or non enjoyment of a specific card is rendered invalid.

Running quad TLTs is pretty much the case in point for that. Nobody, to the best of my knowledge, enjoys it, running it or running against it. It's just dull.

I think it's a pretty dumb card personally.

It's not like you can even have those cards printed as proxies. You have to cycle that damage deck.

30 seconds is not that long, but it's 30 seconds of looking at your opponent shuffle through your damage deck. What happens when s/he can't find Blinded Pilot? Because that can easily happen.

Blinded Pilot may be lying face down on someone by the time they look for it. In any case, a decent player will be able to find it quickly, and have a 2nd choice if not. I've wasted much more time waiting for someone to agonize over if to Focus or TL.

Slow players will be slow.

Maybe I missed something from the OP, but how are you pushing the damage past the shields?

3 minutes ago, Clancampbell said:

Maybe I missed something from the OP, but how are you pushing the damage past the shields?

Because that's what ISYTDS says to do, and this is confirmed by FAQ.