2 hours ago, boomaster said:

I must be misinterpreting "suffers" then. I have always taken "suffers" as after shields cancel dice on a hit, after tokens (or compare dice as it is nowadays.)

Yes 'suffers' has a specific game definition: uncancelled red dice.

Isn't RAC Kylo + Ace pretty much the only good list left to Imps? Palp Aces and Commonwealth Defenders got smashed- Triple Defenders are still OK but no where near where they were- and Mindlink or K-Wings have pretty much dominated every Open or serious tournament this year. Am I missing something? OP is basically asking for Imps to be removed from the game.

A player has a bad time with a new card.

Huge forum op about how the card is the worst thing ever.

Been this way since ptl rocked everyone's world when it first appeared.

in my very limited experience Mr Kylo was suprisingly underwhelming. The action cost is huge, you really need that action for focus or boost or whatever.

So it worked perfectly I take it.

4 hours ago, kris40k said:

You know what's also going to see a lot more play in the coming meta?

Determination.

More or less. This is the perfect hate card against Kylo. Also funny because Kylo has no determination.

Other than the annoying fact that his card text is painfully unclear to players who aren't hyper familiar with the game, my only other issue with the card is that the ship/pilot he pairs with best-

a)doesn't care about arc

b)can take an action when bumping

c) has a high PS to enable blinding nearly every opposing ship before it shoots (and even if it can't get it the first round, its still toast the next two)

d) has an ability that feeds it the required crit even without the Palpatine investment

Take away RAC, and Kylo becomes just a wordy card that needs Palp to be especially effective.

1 minute ago, Johen Dood said:

Isn't RAC Kylo + Ace pretty much the only good list left to Imps? Palp Aces and Commonwealth Defenders got smashed- Triple Defenders are still OK but no where near where they were- and Mindlink or K-Wings have pretty much dominated every Open or serious tournament this year. Am I missing something? OP is basically asking for Imps to be removed from the game.

Both of those arcehtypes are fine. Once everyone gets over the "the sky is falling" effect with Palpatine, much like was found with Whisper after the Phantom nerf, they will begin to see that, yes, the cards are fine.

And even in the worst case- boo hoo there aren't any established meta lists for the Imperials.God forbid people start creating lists of their own.

1 minute ago, Kdubb said:

Both of those arcehtypes are fine. Once everyone gets over the "the sky is falling" effect with Palpatine, much like was found with Whisper after the Phantom nerf, they will begin to see that, yes, the cards are fine.

Yeah but didn't Whisper completely disappear from the competitive meta? I certainly haven't seen him on a table except in a couple friendly games.

11 minutes ago, Spider said:

A player has a bad time with a new card.

Huge forum op about how the card is the worst thing ever.

Been this way since ptl rocked everyone's world when it first appeared.

in my very limited experience Mr Kylo was suprisingly underwhelming. The action cost is huge, you really need that action for focus or boost or whatever.

Which is kind of the point. It might not be amazingly good but it IS boring and 'anti-fun'. So why does it exist?

I can say that I agree that Kylo Ren isn't a whole lot of fun to play against. I tried him out once but I don't think I'd bring him to a casual game again. There are lots of other interesting things in the batwing kit that won't frustrate my opponent, which, in casual play with friends, is something I try to avoid. (I want to win, but I don't want to win at the cost of my opponent wishing they'd done something else with their afternoon.)

(I kinda would be surprised if Ren makes all that big a splash in competitive play either, but I'm a filthy casual, so take that for what it's worth.)

4 minutes ago, Johen Dood said:

Yeah but didn't Whisper completely disappear from the competitive meta? I certainly haven't seen him on a table except in a couple friendly games.

No, he's still around now and then.

My personal biggest NPE currently is the new faq itself

I loved my Manaroo K4 Attani + anything lists. And now they are gone, the archetype itself is gone. She will be missed … well or better the other lists will be missed as Paratani is still looking good. I loved even more the already anyway meta irrelevant imperial aces, another archetype which will be missed by me.

Just now, Johen Dood said:

Yeah but didn't Whisper completely disappear from the competitive meta? I certainly haven't seen him on a table except in a couple friendly games.

For a time, yes, but that was simply because of the overreaction over the nerf. Since the nerf, she has seen a very healthy amount of play at the top level of the game. In fact, I might wager that Whisper is one of the healthiest ships for the game based on usage and tournament placement.

More recently, she struggled heavily against Zuckuss crew, and her usage was neutered by the fact she was rerolling all of her good results and couldn't depend on her 4 green dice to keep her safe.

Even just going back to wave 8, according to Meta Analyzer, she was the 16th most used pilot- http://meta-wing.com/pilots?ranking_start=2016-03-17&ranking_end=2017-03-12&large_tournament_multiplier=true&widespread_use_multiplier=true&use_ranking_data=all&tournament_type=&

Just now, SEApocalypse said:

I loved my Manaroo K4 Attani + anything lists. And now they are gone, the archetype itself is gone.

They're not gone, they just need to stick close together. You know, like good friends do.

19 minutes ago, Spider said:

A player has a bad time with a new card.

Huge forum op about how the card is the worst thing ever.

Been this way since ptl rocked everyone's world when it first appeared.

in my very limited experience Mr Kylo was suprisingly underwhelming. The action cost is huge, you really need that action for focus or boost or whatever.

You must've missed the Asault Missile-poclaypse.

10 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Which is kind of the point. It might not be amazingly good but it IS boring and 'anti-fun'. So why does it exist?

You could ask the same questions about rebel regen and tie punishers.

1 minute ago, Spider said:

You could ask the same questions about rebel regen and tie punishers.

Not sure you are going to get many counter arguments to that. It's a good question anywhere there is a game mechanic, card, etc. that creates a poor experience that for some reason exists.

48 minutes ago, kris40k said:

That's because when most people here hear of a problem, they consider it a challenge to be overcome.

If someone doesn't want advice, and just to vent/rant/etc., that's fine too, but ultimately there isn't much to discuss and it doesn't bring much to the table. I understand if someone just wants to commiserate, but most people are just going to recommend you pull out the nail.

There's a bit of Berne's Games People Play here. "Why don't you - Yes but," that sort of thing.

However, it is possible that some upgrade can make the game less fun, or more correctly, reduce its quality. A bit like the snitch in quidditch. If you leave it out, you might have a decent flying ballgame. But the fact that the team catching the snitch is bound to win, in most cases regardless of how well the teams played, makes it a bad game. All you really need in quidditch is a good seeker and make sure you don't lag behind too much in number of goals.

So that appears to be the critique from OP here. Kylo Ren brings down XWM's quality. Maybe he's right, maybe not. I tend toward the "not" side, because I am very partial to the Upsilon Shuttle expansion. Perhaps it'll change when I've played a few games against Kylo Ren.

If it really is a card that makes the game less fun, then I suggest coming to terms with one's opponent, and just agreeing that neither of you will play Kylo Ren. If that is not possible because you are playing a tournament, then I'd go for one of the counters mentioned and just be done with it. There are a few, and I am guessing that the number is high enough to make sure that not every Imperial player and his mama will play this card. So it seems unlikely that tournament players will run into this card as often as, until recently, Manaroo.

My guess is this card won't receive an erratum.

4 hours ago, mkevans80 said:

This. Determination would be great against Kylo lists but will be very lackluster against absolutely everything else.

*Laughs in A-wing title*

Sure tycho isn't the same without VI or rage, but Determined PTL's could be a thing...

17 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

No, he's still around now and then.

When you can see him....

I am going to be one of those guys who says it's perfectly fine...because it is.

I am a big fan of rac, so at the fresno regional I gave him a try. He isn't world beating and neither are the blinded pilots, surprisingly enough.

Look at the super red dice low agility meta we live in right now, or at least that's what was at the regional. Lots of 6 dice rays, swarm leader, bossk, dengar, quick draw (the double attack) kanan biggs. All the huge dice lists. Even as bad ass as rac has always been, he can get one third or more of his life erased in one turn that you didn't dodge an arc, especially a big base arc. Kylo actually gives you a chance to save yourself from the one millimeters mistake or miss guess you make, and it's not even guaranteed. Trust me I've rolled 3 hits at range two against a one dice ship...so no gunner, no reroll, no kyle, power blast to the face. It's for sure risk reward

And if you wanna talk about npe, use a 0 agility ship against quad tlt,or kanan target lock focus quad tlt. Kylo makes you actually able to be a mortal x wing player and be able to tactically play against them

And when rac wants to do 3 actions, the choice to Kylo usually has to be set up with a target lock against anything with decent agility. And no body I played complained about kylo, all my games were close and fun and tactical on all sides...whether I won or lost.

Every list has a list that sucks to play against. It's part of this diverse and growing game.just give the card some time, when it actually starts dominating then let me know, but from my experience it's good but not really over powered and really helps rac because as good as he is, one bad guess and a little bad luck can send the ship to half points at least in no time

By the way I ran

Rac

Vi, eu, title, gunner,hotshot, kylo

Ryad juke, twin to on engine, x7

4 hours ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

As much as I love the new damage deck, buffing Blinded Pilot was not a good idea.

Blinded Pilot wasn't really buffed in the new deck. It had a couple of loopholes closed (Gunner, Accuracy Corrector, etc.) but became much easier for the majority of ships to clear now that you don't actually need to have a legal target to clear it.

5 hours ago, BlueMusketeer28 said:

Doesn't help if it's not how people like to fly

Perennial problem with X-Wing meta; large card pool, tiny puddle of useful combos for the current meta.

The designers need to fix this instead of showing us a new puddle.

1 hour ago, Johen Dood said:

Yeah but didn't Whisper completely disappear from the competitive meta? I certainly haven't seen him on a table except in a couple friendly games.

It wasn't the change to decloaking that did that. It seemed like Whisper was making the cut at and winning tournaments up until around when Imperial Aces was released. I think that most of these squads with Whisper ended up also being Palp Aces type lists so it might have not had the same visibility as when it was Whisper+RAC, Whisper+Mini Swam, 86 Points of Phantom and a gaint initiative bid.

I agree with those that point to Blinded Pilot as the core of the issue here - it's a "lose a turn" ability in a game where each turn matters. It's unfun and it should have been eliminated in the TFA damage deck. The ability to assign it virtually at will just magnifies the underlying problem.

4 hours ago, boomaster said:

I must be misinterpreting "suffers" then. I have always taken "suffers" as after shields cancel dice on a hit, after tokens (or compare dice as it is nowadays.)

Losing shield tokens IS suffering uncancelled results. And of course dice results are different than damage cards, whether face up or face down. And hull value is never reduced by damage.

They just had to make it about as complicated as they could.

2 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Losing shield tokens IS suffering uncancelled results. And of course dice results are different than damage cards, whether face up or face down. And hull value is never reduced by damage.

They just had to make it about as complicated as they could.

I fully accept that (having gone back over the Upsilon article and the FAQ). Thanks for pointing it out to me, again.... (twice in this post by different people). As for hull value not being reduced, I worked that out in wave 1, after reading the rulebook. But thanks again....

Question for the OP though.

"Why did you HAVE to close to range 1-2"?