The new FAQ says:
So if I roll all blanks on offence can I first spend my target lock and then change one die with Palpatine.
I say yes because everything happens in the modify dice step and I can choose which order to resolve things.
Timing of new Palpatine?
Rolling dice and rerolling dice have been defined as two separate game mechanics, so you need to use Palpatine and nominate your result before rolling any dice.
So, if you roll all blanks, you've missed your opportunity to use Palpatine.
QuoteFAQ, Section 5, page 21
Q: Does an effect that triggers when rolling dice trigger when rerolling dice?
A: No. Rolling dice and rerolling dice are different game effects.
Edited by Parravon
That is not what I meant. Should had phrased it better.
If I say I will use Palpatine to change a die to a crit before I roll my attack dice. And then roll all blanks. Can I first use a target lock on all of the dice, then change one die to a crit?
Basically:
1: Use Palp and nominate a crit result
2: Roll dice (all blank results)
Can you then spend a TL to re roll all dice before modifying one dice with the Palp effect or do you have to modify the Palp dice then spend your TL to re roll the remaining blank results?
Why would you bother? If you've said you'll use him (for a crit) and you roll all blanks; covert one of them to the crit and use the TL on the other three.
Target locks can be used an any number of dice. They don't force you to reroll all your dice. So change and lock in the desired result with Palaptine immediately after you roll, then spend the TL and reroll the remainder.
No, you can't use Target Lock before you change one with Palpatine.
The Emperor does not happen in te modify phase, he is resolved right after rolling (just like C3PO).
31 minutes ago, Willy Jarque said:No, you can't use Target Lock before you change one with Palpatine.
The Emperor does not happen in te modify phase, he is resolved right after rolling (just like C3PO).
Well, on the c3po card it says before modifying. It doesn't say that on palpatine.
It just says after rolling.
"After rolling" means the same in both cases, it doesnt matter if its clarified or not. As it means the same in lighweight frame.
Kanan entry in the FAQ say where his ability resolves. And its the same moment as other "after executing a maneuver" abilities thar are not clarified.
If something resolves "after X", you have to do it just when you finish X, not at any point after that
According to x-wing wikia you change your die during the modify dice step.
That was the text in Palpatine's entry in previous FAQ.
They removed that part, didnt they?
13 hours ago, Dr Zoidberg said:Why would you bother? If you've said you'll use him (for a crit) and you roll all blanks; covert one of them to the crit and use the TL on the other three.
Higher odds is why. If you have two blanks and roll both tying to place a hit on at least one before converting the second into a crit. More dice in the reroll is better; however he can't do it as palp is immediately after rolling not reroll so its a moot point.
How are more dice in the reroll better? Are you arguing the dice bouncing off each other as they leave your hand onto the table are going have a significant change on the statistical outcome?
56 minutes ago, Dr Zoidberg said:How are more dice in the reroll better? Are you arguing the dice bouncing off each other as they leave your hand onto the table are going have a significant change on the statistical outcome?
Say it is a 2 dice attack. Palpatine is making sure at least 1 is a crit; but not a specific die. Your goal is to produce at least 1 hit, then convert the one that failed twice in a row. (This is all pointless though as its not how he works anyways)
Odds of 1 hit = 100% palpatine ensures that
Odds of 2 hits if reroll 1 die = 50%
Odds of 2 hits if rerolling 2 die = 75% (you have 2 attempts to put 1 hit on the table via either die; palp the repeat failure into success)
15 minutes ago, Smitty said:Say it is a 2 dice attack. Palpatine is making sure at least 1 is a crit; but not a specific die. Your goal is to produce at least 1 hit, then convert the one that failed twice in a row. (This is all pointless though as its not how he works anyways)
Odds of 1 hit = 100% palpatine ensures that
Odds of 2 hits if reroll 1 die = 50%
Odds of 2 hits if rerolling 2 die = 75% (you have 2 attempts to put 1 hit on the table via either die; palp the repeat failure into success)
Smitty is right. It makes a big diffenrence. If you took the example with 3 versus 4 dice reroll and you got all blanks before the reroll. The possibility of getting 4 hits or crits on 3 dice reroll is 1/8 (or 2/16), but on a 4 dice reroll it is 5/16
3 dice reroll 2/16 or 12,5 %
4 dice reroll 5/16 or 31,25 %
The chance more then two times as good
Yes this would be a huge difference, it is even easier on extreme example.
Ultimate goal is four Crit on four die, one is always garanteed (Palp)
So you need three Crit.
Even without probability, it is clear that it is easier to get three Crit on a four dices throw then on a three dices throw.
Edit:
This is a permutation, the dice that get the result that will be changed is irrelevant, so the more you throw the best it is.
Edited by muribundi10 hours ago, Rasseman83 said:According to x-wing wikia you change your die during the modify dice step.
That was originally from FAQ 4.0, dated December 21, 2015. The wiki needs to be updated.
9 hours ago, Willy Jarque said:That was the text in Palpatine's entry in previous FAQ.
They removed that part, didnt they?
Yes they did, as it's no longer applicable.
So has the question been definitively answered?
The wording of the FAQ and Timing Chart is a bit muddy, which causes speculation on the timing
If you go by the Timing Chart - The "ROLL" steps include abilities that increase the physical number of dice rolled - like Range Bonus or a Pilot ability that lets you roll more dice. The "MODIFY" steps include abilities that add, reroll, or change dice RESULTS.
Lightweight Frame adds a physical die to roll - so is intuitive to put in step 4ii.
By the wording - Palp is a die change and C3PO is an addition. If I follow the Timing chart, I should add the C3PO Result in step 5ii, but because of the FAQ entry - that result is added in step 4ii.
So I can follow the example of C3PO and resolve Palp in steps 2ii or 4ii - But there's still a nagging part of me that thinks you should resolve it in steps 3ii or 5ii. The only key is that Palp doesn't have the extra wording like C3PO that helps define it.
I plan to check with my friend who went to the Naboo Open and see how it was treated there. At least that sets a precedent for it that supports it. I am helping judge a tournament in a few weeks, so want to make sure I have a good opinion on it.
I might also email FFG, but if you guys hear anything definite, please post it here.
I'd email FFG.
"after rolling" would be the same timing as HLC: as in, before you move onto the next step this happens.
HLC goes off before any mods and then you can mod the results.
Unless they re-faq it to count as normal mods (which would make sense considering thats what he WAS before) i'd rule it as he happens first.
But you can't mod the result that Palp supplies.
I think Vineheart01 has the correct interpretation here.
The sequence would be:
- Attacker declares target.
- Attacker declares Palp for a crit
- Attacker rolls attack dice
- Attackers sets one of the dice to a crit from Palp
- Defender modifies attack dice
- Attacker modifies attack dice
The "that die result cannot be modified again" in the new text is only useful if the result is set before the "defender modifies attack dice step".
On 3/20/2017 at 4:20 PM, Vineheart01 said:"after rolling" would be the same timing as HLC: as in, before you move onto the next step this happens.
HLC goes off before any mods and then you can mod the results.
Unless they re-faq it to count as normal mods (which would make sense considering thats what he WAS before) i'd rule it as he happens first.
Yeah, it has almost identical wording to HLC. "Immediately after rolling your attack dice" for HLC vs. "After rolling" for the Emperor. "When attacking" or "when defending" is the timing instruction for using the normal modify dice steps.
7 hours ago, kraedin said:Yeah, it has almost identical wording to HLC. "Immediately after rolling your attack dice" for HLC vs. "After rolling" for the Emperor. "When attacking" or "when defending" is the timing instruction for using the normal modify dice steps.
Technically, now, truly identical wording- 'immediately' is (per the FAQ) not a reserved game term. It is considered to be purely for flavor.
Which is bizarre to me, but hey, I don't write 'em... 
As Farwalker stated, "Immediately" holds no value. Never did technically, its just flavor wording. They just made it official this faq instead of implying it.