9 hours ago, VanorDM said:Yeah, the Dev's have said that it's not allowed, but it's never made into a FAQ that I know of. It would be nice if they actually spelled it, because telling someone they can't do that and the best you can come up with is "Well I read it on the message boards" just isn't likely to get you very far.
Indeed, this is one item of "
rules as intended
" that really needed to become "
rules as written
" a long time ago.
This thread is getting fairly lengthy, so I don't expect my response to get much exposure, but, from my perspective, this edges across the line of what is acceptable sportsmanlike conduct, namely "fair" play. What's to stop someone plotting the moles/freckles on their hands with maneuver templates and using those to premeasure? Nothing; it's not explicitly forbidden in the rules. But, it is premeasuring. My point: If a player justifies his/her position with "The RRG and FAQ do not explicitly declare I cannot do X" they're being hinky.
I play Strikers, and I treat their AA movement as if it were a normal boost or barrel roll. The rules don't explicitly instruct me to do so, but there is precedence, and, in the interest of conducting myself and gameplay with fairness, I will continue to do so unless explicitly instructed otherwise, whether it be by the RRG, FAQ, or a TO.
Anything else would "sit wrong" with me.
Here's one I experienced:
Using "Duchess", who was equipped with TIE MkII, who was double stressed, I executed my AA maneuver (1 bank left), cleared one stress, then executed a 3 bank right, cleared the second stress. My opponent says "You can't do that! Adaptive Ailerons say you must perform a white o ne maneuver!" I explained what TIE MkII does, and he says "I know what it does! But since your AA moves are now green, you can't adhere to the "must" qualifier, therefore you cannot use your AA Title, and now I get to set your dial!"
After looking at my opponent for a few seconds in disbelief, I replied "But she can choose to ignore her ability...", and was interrupted with " Well, that's different. Her special ability allows her to do that." And I was thinking "What's the difference, really?" TIE MkII says versus special ability says.
I'm not proud of myself for this, but I packed up and left the shop.
Edited by Alekzanter41 minutes ago, Alekzanter said:Using "Duchess", who was equipped with TIE MkII, who was double stressed, I executed my AA maneuver (1 bank left)
Except that you can't... AA is only when not stressed. Duchess does not let you by pass that at all. You use AA or you don't use it...
1 minute ago, muribundi said:Except that you can't... AA is only when not stressed. Duchess does not let you by pass that at all. You use AA or you don't use it...
Ah. Derpy me.
7 hours ago, Alekzanter said:What's to stop someone plotting the moles/freckles on their hands with maneuver templates and using those to premeasure? Nothing; it's not explicitly forbidden in the rules. But, it is premeasuring. My point: If a player justifies his/her position with "The RRG and FAQ do not explicitly declare I cannot do X" they're being hinky.
You're missing the point, jumping into the stupid hashed out "prescriptive/proscriptive" debate. You can in fact prohibit an infinite number of behaviors by using the word only.
For your example of using your hands to premeasure, FFG doesn't need to specifically prohibit that in the rules because of how they structured the measuring rules in the FAQ.
Players may only measure range and/or use the range ruler to determine whether a ship is inside or outside of a fring arc at the following times:
If you measure range outside of the specified instances, and the rules don't care how you're measuring range, you're breaking the rules.
All I'm saying is there needs to be the same rule for maneuver templates for the sake of removing ambiguity and reducing awkward interactions between new players and TOs, we had it in the past, it's not hard.
A side of this subject that hasn't been touched until now: new players.
If somebody buys a TFA core tomorrow and learns the rules based on the booklets within and the PDFs from FFGs site,can he reach the conclusion that he's not allowed to premeasure? Currently, I feel that's not a given, and that's an issue IMO.
8 hours ago, LordBlades said:Currently, I feel that's not a given, and that's an issue IMO.
I agree, most people aren't going to read a ruleset and assume that if it's not in the rules, it's not allowed. Not unless they've had experience with rule sets like that before, and most other games I've played, such as Flames of War, Bolt Action, 40k, Malifaux, Warmachine, ect... They all state if you're allowed to pre-measure or not. The first rule book for X-Wing covered the issue as well.
So while most of may again know what the RAI are, the RAW are not nearly as clear as they should be.
Can someone from ffg just answer the question lol. Is that too much to ask