Ok so I had this weird feeling yesterday that His Highness might be about to return.

I flew a lot of his majesty + z swarm back in the day and it remains my favorite list of all time. It left the fun fred department right before the meta shifted but never reached tier 1 prolly not even tier 1.5 but it was strong for sure. i even finished 3rd in a 20 dude tourney with it once.

So yesterday I took it for a spin against some paratani version and a 4scyk mango build. Just as I did back then it absolutely smashed.

Im not so naive as to take that as an indication of anything but it made me think; Has there been released any upgrades that could help Xizor out since back then?

the optimal build used to be:

5 ps1 z's

xisor, title, AT, FCS, vi and either flechette if you feared aces (would prolly be ok now with attain still being a thing) or glitterstim for defense that one turn where you mess up with his lordship.

I saw the shield regen thingy for the new scyks and saw that it could go on his highness but nah, seems worse than AT by a good length. I figured maybe his exaltedness doesn't need VI no more? What EPT would he benefit from? or what about vectored thrusters or something..

I don't think the Pulse Ray Shield goes on Xizor (Autothrusters are too good, especially against the TLTs that ignore his ability). I think you put them on his meat shields.

yeah, but I just did the math and you can only get three normal scyks with this and a bandit. The lightweight scyks cant tak mods. And theres no way that escort beats 5z.niether as an offensive force or as meatshield for his majesty. Actually scyks are way, way worse in that role with one shield and all.

hmm.. I cant really see anything new for this list. I was thinking vectored thrusters but again; AT is just so strong.

fearlessness over vi could be interesting as a key part of the lists dynamic has always been to make xizor as brutal as possible so that they will waste shots at him thereby exploiting his 3green but putting damage on the 2ag zs. This would definetly make him deal more dam but it the expense of him being an easy target for any ace in the endgame? nah, dont think so.

19 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

And theres no way that escort beats 5z.niether as an offensive force or as meatshield for his majesty.

I usually only fly Xizor with a pair of Z-95s when I play him. I find it is usually enough to discourage shots on Xizor but still lets me bring something else with some punch. Give Xizor Mindlink and fly him next to a Heavy Scyk with PRS and now your opponent has to decided between shooting at Xizor and shooting at a target that might be as least as hard to hit as he is. Not sure how well it would work but it might be worth trying.

Thats the exact way to think about it. Problem is that xizor HAS to be the most appealing target in your squad if his ability is to make sense, imho. I might be wrong. there could be another way to think him. feel free to share your ideas. I thought something like maybe pairing him with a large based insane damage dealer but I never really got it working. Xizor is just not powerful enough to fit in a 2 ship list imho.

Anyways, I guess the question in relation to the 5z list is; are there any new upgrades that could make him better than vi, at, fcs, glitter?

Try Xizor w/draw their fire, pulsed ray shield, and a scout/trandoshan slaver/Manaroo as a partner.

PRS will works better than AT on the prince. That's because no one will shoot him. But with DTF he will save his partnership and regen his shield.

and of course if the opponent will choose to fire him, his ability will spoke.

Seems a nice treat.

StarViper: · Prince Xizor (31)
Draw Their Fire (1)
Pulsed Ray Shield (2)
· Virago (1)
Fire Control System (2)
Black Market Slicer Tools (1)
JumpMaster 5000: · Manaroo (27)
Fearlessness (1)
Tactical Jammer (1)
K4 Security Droid (3)
Unhinged Astromech (1)
JumpMaster 5000: Contracted Scout (25)
Fearlessness (1)
Tactical Jammer (1)
· BoShek (2)
-- TOTAL ------- 100p. --

Fearlessness on Jumpmusters are way understimated. They simply turn a poor 2 dice attack into a 1+ hit guaranteed, that sounds way better.

One of them act as a blocker. The other one is Manaroo.

Both with TJ so they will cover each others.

Xizor still the Prince.

Anyway fearlessness is necessary to get some punch. It works pretty well on large ships with barrel roll.

Something like this

16 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

Thats the exact way to think about it. Problem is that xizor HAS to be the most appealing target in your squad if his ability is to make sense, imho. I might be wrong. there could be another way to think him. feel free to share your ideas. I thought something like maybe pairing him with a large based insane damage dealer but I never really got it working. Xizor is just not powerful enough to fit in a 2 ship list imho.

Anyways, I guess the question in relation to the 5z list is; are there any new upgrades that could make him better than vi, at, fcs, glitter?

If you don't run him with Draw Their Fire, there's a way to push your opponent to fire him: make him costly.

Thanks Quadjumpers!

StarViper: · Prince Xizor (31)
Expertise (4)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
Autothrusters (2)
· Virago (1)
Fire Control System (2)
Scavenger Crane (2)
-- TOTAL ------- 45p. --

At 4 5 points, the opponent will thinking about shoot him down. And now, his ability will trigger! Thanks to Scavenger Crane, he can carry torpedoes now, helped by FCS.

Ok, Expertise maybe is too much, but will turn the Prince into a consistent treat. He will hit as a truck + will bait the opponent (cost+no focus token for defense). Just be carefull with him, he still have 5 hp throught 3 agi (:

2 hours ago, Cerve said:

Ok, Expertise maybe is too much, but will turn the Prince into a consistent treat.

I think anyone who hangs around Xizor knows that he is already a consistent treat

If you still want to take 5 naked Zs, you can fit in Expertise on Xizor with FCS and AT. I think it would do quite well in the meta now, you should try it out!

On 11/3/2017 at 11:53 AM, Gersun said:

If you still want to take 5 naked Zs, you can fit in Expertise on Xizor with FCS and AT. I think it would do quite well in the meta now, you should try it out!

Yeah, this would be so cool. my only concern is that he won't be able to survive the endgame at PS 7 vs a lot of lists running aces.

2 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

Yeah, this would be so cool. my only concern is that he won't be able to survive the endgame at PS 7 vs a lot of lists running aces.

You run 6 ships, try to block those

I flew "Prince and the New Power Generation" back around Wave 6 and found it had the tools to defeat just about everything on the table if flown right. I don't think enough people gave it a chance. For those that don't know, it's Xizor w/ 5 Z-95's. Part of how it worked as that the Z's ran in a formation in front of and near Xizor. The idea is that you can send them out to cause a massive field that can block the enemy from flying. Fenn Rau shouldn't be able to get in R1 of Xizor if you are flying it right. Also, if you set up a blockage train, it means that the enemy will be bumped at the front of your Z-95's with no tokens while your whole list fires at it. It wasn't just Xizor that did the damage.

With bumping becoming more of a thing and seeing less Arc Dodgers around, it's not a bad concept anymore. Also, the PS War has cooled down and you no longer need to be PS9 with Xizor. You are free to take a different EPT. You will have to accept some give and take, though, as the points were tight in the old list.

Swarm Leader = This is an EPT that can make Xizor utterly brutal. Throw in 3 Light Scyks that do nothing but Evade and act as blockers each round and you can bump Xizor's damage dice up to 5 dice at R2-3. Maybe he has FCS, so after first shot, he's also got Focus and TL for extra brutality. You can always go with just 2 Scyks, but as soon as one dies, you lose effectiveness. You can also look at other ships to perhaps put in the mix, like maybe one Y-wing instead of two other Z's. It's less ships for the blockage, but it will give Xizor a meat shield for longer.

Expertise = This means you can save the Focus for defense or use a different action. Too bad he doesn't have Evade action. You also might be able to shift away from FCS if you have Expertise. Maybe Sensor Jammer makes it harder to kill Xizor. If they bumped, they can't use a Focus, or it forces them to use the Focus so they don't have it on defense. Still, going to Expertise and Sensor Jammer means you are adding 5 pts to the list. They are expensive.

Fearlessness = good for the mid to late game, but not as good if you are planning the bump train entourage.

If I were to try it again, I'd probably go with this list:

Prince Xizor (31)
Swarm Leader (3)
Fire-Control System (2)
Black Market Slicer Tools (1)
Autothrusters (2)
Virago (1)

Binayre Pirate (12)

Binayre Pirate (12)

Cartel Spacer (14)
"Light Scyk" Interceptor (-2)

Cartel Spacer (14)
"Light Scyk" Interceptor (-2)

Cartel Spacer (14)
"Light Scyk" Interceptor (-2)

Total: 100

One of the problems with the list before was trying to turn around after the first engagement. It usually was after blasting the first Bro Bot and then needing to turn around to face the other one quickly. I think Scyks are better to deal with this as their dial is much more agile and can handle turning to a flank a lot better than the Z-95. The 1 hard turn is great for this, not to mention the Barrel Roll to get either in the way our out of the way.

I had 1 pt left after building the list and put in Black Market Slicer Tools instead of Inertial Dampeners, mostly due to late game play. I found with FCS I usually didn't need to modify dice and often the enemy was a PTL guy. So, if I didn't need the reposition after moving I could try to damage a stressed out enemy. Not sure if it's really worth it or not, but I figure it's worth a try.

@heychadwick Said it first. Swarm. Leader.

Prince Xizor (31)
Swarm Leader (3)
Fire-Control System (2)
Inertial Dampeners (1)
Autothrusters (2)
Virago (1)

Cartel Spacer (14) x5
"Light Scyk" Interceptor (-2)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Who do you shoot? Xizor is going to hit like a freaking truck. M3-A's can be dodgy little farts when evading every turn. But if you shoot at Xizor he spreads the damage all around. Really good odds that you can get Xizor 5 or 6 red dice every turn for the first few turns of combat. Good lordy.

The problem of ALL light Scyks means that even Xizor's spreading out the love hurts them brutally. I would think at least 1 Z-95 to put in the list to be a bit sturdier dump off point a smart choice.

No real experience playing with or against but the conventional wisdom has been that the way to beat the list is to kill the escort first. Light Scyks that evade every round will take a lot longer to kill than Z-95's.

How bout this for a different take:

Prince Xizor (31)
Swarm Leader (3)
Sensor Jammer (4)
Autothrusters (2)
Virago (1)

Cartel Spacer (14) x3
"Light Scyk" Interceptor (-2)

Ruthless Freelancer (23)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Still have four ships that can take evade actions. Let's you squeeze in a sensor jammer and some serious beef to soak up those hits on Xizor.

Now this is very valid post as we are having a Joker's tournament on 1st of April.

Each scum squadron must include 1+ starviper
Rebels 1+ hawk
Imperials 1+Punisher

I have some Fann+Palob+Guri ideas, but I am also tempted by this:

99/100
Fenn Rau, Push the limit, Atothrusters, title
Xizor, VI, FCs, title, autothrusters
Banana Pilot, Feedback Array,
Banana Pilot, Feedback Array

Im messing with my opponents target priority, I can focus fire very reliably with feedbacks, and Im expecting to see some torpedoes on punishers and TLT's on cheap hawks so my autothrusters are helping here aw sell. Plus Fenn and Xizor are both PS9 aces with boosts/barrel rolls so might be competent in chasing TLTs.

3 hours ago, Voitek said:

99/100
Fenn Rau, Push the limit, Atothrusters, title
Xizor, VI, FCs, title, autothrusters
Banana Pilot, Feedback Array,
Banana Pilot, Feedback Array

Im messing with my opponents target priority, I can focus fire very reliably with feedbacks, and Im expecting to see some torpedoes on punishers and TLT's on cheap hawks so my autothrusters are helping here aw sell. Plus Fenn and Xizor are both PS9 aces with boosts/barrel rolls so might be competent in chasing TLTs.

I like this, but what about EMP Device instead of FA? True, the PS9s need to stay back, but seems less self-destructive. This would help you focus fire as well.

3 minutes ago, Ob3ron said:

I like this, but what about EMP Device instead of FA? True, the PS9s need to stay back, but seems less self-destructive. This would help you focus fire as well.

For one thing, EMP device is unique

Yes, you don't want to accidentally pulse your aces, so one provides a good twist. There's room for an Ion Missile for the other Z, or keep the FA.

I played the expertise build twice today vs palobtanni. Horrible matchup due to the stress on the prince for no expertise. 4 points out the window. they kill a ship every turn and I got palob first game and ventres second game.

bumping was not as easy as I remembered and even when I managed to.

I will try the the swarm leader build but im not keen on those scyks.

I will also try to slap fearlessness on him just to try and pump his dam output.

but I must say; after having played this list more than any other list in the game I am pretty convinced that his royal exaltedness still needs ps9.

The problem I foresee with the classic Viper + 5 is that most ships can out fly you (Defenders, Phantoms and Interceptors) or don't care if they bump (pre-FAQ Defenders + any mindlink list) so your main strength is gone.

I reckon most people will just pile damage into a pirate, hoping (most of the time successfully) killing it before it can fire. Any three ship list will be able to do that consistently, with Fenn, it could even be two a turn. Ghost + Ashoka will certainly do it with that lovely four to five dice primary and follow up TLT shot. Hell, even the double TLT could reliably do it.

Then with the Prince high and dry, a useless ability and a single action a turn, he gets ruined.

I think for the Viper to make a stand it needs to fall to Guri, with mindlink. Then add in maybe Palp and a Contracted Scout. You have enough action economy now to get more out of the ship plus a lot of built in redundancies. If ALL your ships bump, Guri still provides everyone with a focus token via mindlink and her ability. If not, Palob can always still one.

So i propose:
Guri:
Mindlink + Autothrusters + title + Fire Control System

Palob
Mindlink + Blaster Turret + Dengar Crew + Pulsed Ray Shielding

Manaroo
Mindlink + K4 Security Droid + Unhinged Astro
98 points

Three ships, all with focus and re-rolls on offence, every turn without fail. (Assuming Manaroo does a green of course.)

41 minutes ago, Viktus106 said:

The problem I foresee with the classic Viper + 5 is that most ships can out fly you (Defenders, Phantoms and Interceptors) or don't care if they bump (pre-FAQ Defenders + any mindlink list) so your main strength is gone.

I reckon most people will just pile damage into a pirate, hoping (most of the time successfully) killing it before it can fire. Any three ship list will be able to do that consistently, with Fenn, it could even be two a turn. Ghost + Ashoka will certainly do it with that lovely four to five dice primary and follow up TLT shot. Hell, even the double TLT could reliably do it.

You talk about pre-FAQ stuff....but it's post-FAQ. So, Defenders do care about bumping. Also, even with Mindlink, you still don't want to bump. You get the Focus for free, but you still want another one. Bumping is a strong part of how the list works. You need to keep your target in front of your horde and have it bump. If it has Mindlink, it still only gets 1 Focus. When you have 4 other Z's or Scyks firing at it, it will hurt. Some of them will be R1. Also, if Xizor gets off his attack, you see 5 attack dice from him (he doesn't get in R1 as the swarm is in front) and the 2nd turn will have TL from FCS. That puts the hurt on things. Most of the time it strips tokens. Then, those 2 or 3 red dice ships can ping to death someone. When you have that many, it does add up, especially vs someone like the Ghost.

Not getting the enemy into R1 of Xizor is easy for the first turn or two. Just keep your screen of fighters up.

5 hours ago, Scoundrel said:

I will try the the swarm leader build but im not keen on those scyks.

Have you flown them much? They aren't so bad. They are Tie Fighters. You give them the Evade every turn and they have 3 green dice. They aren't super amazing, but they aren't made of paper. Get something firing 5 dice and it will go boom (most likely), but for other attacks, not so much.

On 3/13/2017 at 8:58 AM, heychadwick said:

I flew "Prince and the New Power Generation" back around Wave 6 and found it had the tools to defeat just about everything on the table if flown right. I don't think enough people gave it a chance. For those that don't know, it's Xizor w/ 5 Z-95's. Part of how it worked as that the Z's ran in a formation in front of and near Xizor. The idea is that you can send them out to cause a massive field that can block the enemy from flying. Fenn Rau shouldn't be able to get in R1 of Xizor if you are flying it right. Also, if you set up a blockage train, it means that the enemy will be bumped at the front of your Z-95's with no tokens while your whole list fires at it. It wasn't just Xizor that did the damage.

With bumping becoming more of a thing and seeing less Arc Dodgers around, it's not a bad concept anymore. Also, the PS War has cooled down and you no longer need to be PS9 with Xizor. You are free to take a different EPT. You will have to accept some give and take, though, as the points were tight in the old list.

Swarm Leader = This is an EPT that can make Xizor utterly brutal. Throw in 3 Light Scyks that do nothing but Evade and act as blockers each round and you can bump Xizor's damage dice up to 5 dice at R2-3. Maybe he has FCS, so after first shot, he's also got Focus and TL for extra brutality. You can always go with just 2 Scyks, but as soon as one dies, you lose effectiveness. You can also look at other ships to perhaps put in the mix, like maybe one Y-wing instead of two other Z's. It's less ships for the blockage, but it will give Xizor a meat shield for longer.

Expertise = This means you can save the Focus for defense or use a different action. Too bad he doesn't have Evade action. You also might be able to shift away from FCS if you have Expertise. Maybe Sensor Jammer makes it harder to kill Xizor. If they bumped, they can't use a Focus, or it forces them to use the Focus so they don't have it on defense. Still, going to Expertise and Sensor Jammer means you are adding 5 pts to the list. They are expensive.

Fearlessness = good for the mid to late game, but not as good if you are planning the bump train entourage.

If I were to try it again, I'd probably go with this list:

Prince Xizor (31)
Swarm Leader (3)
Fire-Control System (2)
Black Market Slicer Tools (1)
Autothrusters (2)
Virago (1)

Binayre Pirate (12)

Binayre Pirate (12)

Cartel Spacer (14)
"Light Scyk" Interceptor (-2)

Cartel Spacer (14)
"Light Scyk" Interceptor (-2)

Cartel Spacer (14)
"Light Scyk" Interceptor (-2)

Total: 100

One of the problems with the list before was trying to turn around after the first engagement. It usually was after blasting the first Bro Bot and then needing to turn around to face the other one quickly. I think Scyks are better to deal with this as their dial is much more agile and can handle turning to a flank a lot better than the Z-95. The 1 hard turn is great for this, not to mention the Barrel Roll to get either in the way our out of the way.

I had 1 pt left after building the list and put in Black Market Slicer Tools instead of Inertial Dampeners, mostly due to late game play. I found with FCS I usually didn't need to modify dice and often the enemy was a PTL guy. So, if I didn't need the reposition after moving I could try to damage a stressed out enemy. Not sure if it's really worth it or not, but I figure it's worth a try.

Why isn't Sunny Bounder in that list? She'd be a better blocker at PS 1 and has better spike-damage than a Cartel Spacer.

Just now, Budgernaut said:

Why isn't Sunny Bounder in that list? She'd be a better blocker at PS 1 and has better spike-damage than a Cartel Spacer.

Good point! Why? Because she's still too new for me to remember.

As a long time Guri player I am thinking of giving Xizor a quick run around.

After looking at Paul Heaver's Scyk list on the system open news page i wondered whether there was room for a heavier support with Xizor, but with a cheaper Scyk.

Xizor (31), VI (1), Virago (1), AT (2), FCS (2), Glitterstym (2) ( 39)

Cartel Spacer (14), Heavy Scyk (2), Ion Cannon (3), Shield Upgrade (4) (23)

Cartel Spacer (14), Heavy Scyk (2), Mangler Cannon (4), Shield Upgrade (4) (24)

Binayre Pirate (12), Feedback Array (2) (14)

Ion Cannon for control, Mangler Cannon for damage, Feedback Z for an annoying interference.

What do you all think?