21 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Should have been an ability for a TIE Punisher pilot.

You're probably right captain hugefont!

1 hour ago, Pimpbacca said:

Unlimited is ridiculous. It's also unfluffy. That said, I wouldn't be against standard loadouts for ships, that are more than just single fire.

Of course it's not truly "unlimited," per se, rather it's "enough to get through this quick engagement."

40 minutes ago, NotBatman said:

Of course it's not truly "unlimited," per se, rather it's "enough to get through this quick engagement."

So more than what a B-wing, TIE-Bomber, K-wing, Jumpmaster and TIE Punisher can carry all put together?

5 hours ago, Pimpbacca said:

Unlimited is ridiculous. It's also unfluffy. That said, I wouldn't be against standard loadouts for ships, that are more than just single fire.

It's no so ridiculous in a limited engagement especially if it were limited to certain ships.

As far as I'm concerned the TIE Bomber and Punisher probably should be able to rain ordnance (as in missiles or torps but we'd probably better stay away from bombs unless you are purposefully creating a minelayer) throughout the length of a standard battle. Looking at the hypothetical Missile Boat basically all of it's attacks are likely to be some form of ordnance.

There are plenty of ways to do the reusable ordnance. Those "use it once and then skip attacking to reload it it to use again" methods may work for ships that normally carry few shots but for other things I really think it is far too slow to make a meaningful difference especially if multiple slots were already available. In a number of cases I feel that just the standard requirements to fire ordnance (normally a TL on the target) could be enough of a roadblock to ships that normally use ordnance heavily that they should have some faster option.

Were I to do an unlimited ordnance upgrade I'd probably make it/them take multiple upgrade slots. This would serve to keep it off the ships with limited capacities while hopefully giving those ships a more cost effective way to fill their slots.

17 hours ago, ozmodon said:

I could see having a reload time with a double sided card. It could be a new card type. So instead of extra munitions you take a auto load system.

If FFG ever took it upon themselves to do so; you could re-release the ordnance cards as dual-sided cards with a reload trigger on the other side.

2 minutes ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

If FFG ever took it upon themselves to do so; you could re-release the ordnance cards as dual-sided cards with a reload trigger on the other side.

I would agree but that is getting into 2.0 territory. honestly thanks to it's low pilot skill it is absurd to think it will get more than 2 off. But still the potential is absurd. At least with Nera you could imagine it as a trick shot with torpedo weapons.

4 hours ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

If FFG ever took it upon themselves to do so; you could re-release the ordnance cards as dual-sided cards with a reload trigger on the other side.

It would make them better without making them as good as epic

@ozmodon about a dual:

"Primed munitions" when a [torpedo or missile] card instructs you to discard it you may instead place it under this card. At the start of the combat phase you may receive a weapons disabled token and flip this card.

"Reloading Munitions" Action: equip any cards under this card to your ship, then flip this card. As long as this side is up you cannot make secondary weapon attacks.

And make it a bomb slot, which limits it to K, Y w/bomb load, bomber, and punisher.

51 minutes ago, nitrobenz said:

@ozmodon about a dual:

"Primed munitions" when a [torpedo or missile] card instructs you to discard it you may instead place it under this card. At the start of the combat phase you may receive a weapons disabled token and flip this card.

"Reloading Munitions" Action: equip any cards under this card to your ship, then flip this card. As long as this side is up you cannot make secondary weapon attacks.

And make it a bomb slot, which limits it to K, Y w/bomb load, bomber, and punisher.

I think it would work

Finn crew is essentially unlimited ordnance. Sure he doesn't negate the extra agility dice at range three but he gets a damage boost at range one to make up for it.

Perhaps we could get a munitions upgrade (on a torpedo, missle or bomb slot) that lets you flip a facedown missile, torp or bomb card faceup. Then you wouldn't have to redo any older cards.
Similar to Tomax Bren's ability, but maybe as an action?
I might pay 4 points for that on Redline.

I would definitely pay for that on Deathrain with Cluster Mines or Major Rhymer with APT's

I also like the idea of a double slot missile or torpedo (or missile+torpedo ?) card with unlimited/reloadable instead of discard.

21 minutes ago, nitrobenz said:

I also like the idea of a double slot missile or torpedo (or missile+torpedo ?) card with unlimited/reloadable instead of discard.

The problem with ANY reload mechanic is that it needs to be cheap and easy enough that it is actually worth using with whatever is being reloaded. If it cost any more than a regular Proton Torpedo having a reload mechanic that takes an action to use or stops your attack for a round plus still requires you to get a new TL on a target probably isn't going to be worth it at least outside of epic.

I wonder if an action that gave a free action TL and "reloaded" ordnance at the same time could work. This is simply to speed things up without needing to dig into too many other cards.

20 minutes ago, StevenO said:

The problem with ANY reload mechanic is that it needs to be cheap and easy enough that it is actually worth using with whatever is being reloaded.

What about some kind of failsafe that auto reloads when you fail to hit?

18 minutes ago, LunarSol said:

39 minutes ago, StevenO said:

The problem with ANY reload mechanic is that it needs to be cheap and easy enough that it is actually worth using with whatever is being reloaded.

What about some kind of failsafe that auto reloads when you fail to hit?

You mean a mechanic that allows you to keep shooting until you miss? It would certainly make some things more interesting but how much would you be willing to pay for something that might not work once?

No, you're just talking about the overpriced upgrade that will let you "shoot again" if your ordnance somehow completely fails you the first time. Were it free and not occupying a valuable upgrade slot then Munition's Failsafe wouldn't be so bad but there's a reason it never came close to "fixing" ordnance.

Infinite ammo should be a Tie Punisher title!

On 11/03/2017 at 3:26 PM, Pimpbacca said:

Unlimited is ridiculous. It's also unfluffy. That said, I wouldn't be against standard loadouts for ships, that are more than just single fire.

Arguing fluff when it comes to missiles and torpedoes in x wing is super dumb; most ships come with more than just the one.

On 3/10/2017 at 9:29 AM, AngryAlbatross said:

Thought experiment for the day!
If all ordnance did not require you to discard it after use, would ordnance be broken in general?

Would the game be better or worse?
(it certainly would be closer to x wing vs tie fighter where you had at least 10-12 missiles each game)

p.s. I realize this would make extra munitions and munitions fail-safe useless cards.

I was thinking about this recently, too.

My guess was if you increase the cost by a bit it might be fine.

I doubt you need to pay more than three times as much or so, per missile/torpedo. How many opportunities to fire does discarding actually prevent? Plus you might want to give ordnance a bit of a boost, anyway.

It would be just like any other secondary weapon. I like the idea.

On 3/10/2017 at 0:19 PM, Sasajak said:

I raise your offer to a TIE Advanced with Cluster Missiles, Accuracy Corrector and Guidance Chips. You can't lose.

This is probably one of my favorite builds to fly.

4x-Tempest Squadron Pilot (25) TIE/x1, CM, AC, GC

On 3/10/2017 at 11:35 AM, AngryAlbatross said:

Yea this seems to be the consensus.
But it is still difficult to get most ordnance off because of the target lock cost.

I somewhat doubt that 5 bombers with unlimited prockets would be that good, you still have to get into range one. Currently you can fly 5 A-Wings with prockets and they are not winning tons of tournaments.

5 A's with unlimited prockets would be king.

I wouldn't mind a "strike craft" title that could be given to YWings, TIE Bombers, Punishers, Firesprays, BWings, and something exclusively scum (probably the H6, which be an excellent expansion to pack an ordance fix in... Maybe the Assault Gunboat too?). The title would function exactly like extra munitions, but would remove out of arc firing... Then package in a cheap range 2-3 3 damage missile that gives you an extra token anytime you receive an ordance token, and with the other expansion (1 being the H6 the other the Gunboat), put in a torp that does stratified damage against large and huge ships.

5 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Arguing fluff when it comes to missiles and torpedoes in x wing is super dumb; most ships come with more than just the one.

That is my point. They probably should have more than just one, just not unlimited. Unlimited is stupid for gameplay reasons and fluff reasons.

11 minutes ago, Pimpbacca said:

That is my point. They probably should have more than just one, just not unlimited. Unlimited is stupid for gameplay reasons and fluff reasons.

Agreed. A limited supply makes them precious and requires analyzing the opposing team to decide it's best use.

Simple solution for homebrew, extra munitions is changed to a mod slot and you can equip a second mod that cost 2 points or less

7 hours ago, GeneralBergfrühling said:

Infinite ammo should be a Tie Punisher title!

I think a 0 point Punisher title like this might be enough to get Punishers on the table:

"After you perform an attack, you may immediately perform an attack with a secondary weapon. You cannot perform another attack this round."

This enables two things that would make the Punisher have a unique place as an ordnance carrier. TIE Punishers with FCS can use an attack with their primary to acquire a target lock to use with ordnance. It also gives a Punisher that multiple pieces of ordnance a decent chance to launch it all since they could fire twice per round.

I would be worried that it might make FCS an almost an auto-include.