Thought experiment for the day!
If all ordnance did not require you to discard it after use, would ordnance be broken in general?

Would the game be better or worse?
(it certainly would be closer to x wing vs tie fighter where you had at least 10-12 missiles each game)

p.s. I realize this would make extra munitions and munitions fail-safe useless cards.

Tie Advanced with FCS and Cluster Missiles would have fun.

I think it would be awesome. Most ordnance has enough downside in requiring you to spend the target lock and costing a lot of points I don't think it'd be too big of an issue.

Hmm. Definitely not unlimited. If ordinance isn't limited someway, it ceases to be different and interesting and becomes something you span to win. How often would K-Wing's just drop mines if they had an unlimited supply? While I could be down for raising the amount of uses a ordinance card is used before discard (which also doesn't invalidate Extra Munitions and Munitions Failsafe), I think preserving the need to pick and choose what target to torpedo is also important for game play and flavor reasons.

Seeing how miserable it is to deal with in Epic on a single huge ship with Ordnance Tubes, I can't imagine what it would be like in a regular match on any ordnance carrying ship.

I think it would be a bit much, proton rockets and hoiming missles would be everywhere and just escalating red dice more.

I think it would match their cost but make them uninteresting mechanically. I'd rather just see them drop about 2 points across the board for the most part.

15 minutes ago, DailyRich said:

Seeing how miserable it is to deal with in Epic on a single huge ship with Ordnance Tubes, I can't imagine what it would be like in a regular match on any ordnance carrying ship.

This^

Assault missiles every round is "no bueno".

I would be up for extra munitions being 0pts if two or more 'missile', 'torpedo' or 'bomb' upgrades worth more than 2pts are equipped. This allows Proton + Plasma Torps for just 5pts, or Homing missile and add Plasma Torp for just 1 extra point.

10 minutes ago, wurms said:

This^

Assault missiles every round is "no bueno".

I would be up for extra munitions being 0pts if two or more 'missile', 'torpedo' or 'bomb' upgrades worth more than 2pts are equipped. This allows Proton + Plasma Torps for just 5pts, or Homing missile and add Plasma Torp for just 1 extra point.

That really screws over options for things like the Y and B-Wings though.

too many 2die ships with ordnance access. The reason things like bombers dont ravage the play field is because usually they can only get 2shots off max, adding any more ordnance other than 1 missile/torp + EM makes them expensive enough to be really painful to lose early. With this i'd just take bombers with Prockets and have some uber cheap, durable enough to not die in 1 hit 4die attack ships.

A wings (and TIE Advanced, and TAPs, and Defenders) with Prockets are probably the main argument against. In most cases it wouldn't be too bad because of the cost to actually FIRE the ordnance, but Prockets in particular only take a focus to fire and don't actually SPEND it; giving 3-attack ships a 5 die range 1 attack would be broken.

You could probably do it for Torpedoes without much of an impact though.

54 minutes ago, AngryAlbatross said:

Thought experiment for the day!
If all ordnance did not require you to discard it after use, would ordnance be broken in general? Would the game be better or worse?
(it certainly would be closer to x wing vs tie fighter where you had at least 10-12 missiles each game) p.s. I realize this would make extra munitions and munitions fail-safe useless cards.

I think in most instances, it would be broken. The only ship that couldn't break this incredible ability would be the Punisher. It wouldn't live long enough to get hardly any ordinance out of its chutes. It simply dies too easy. All other ships would have a shot at abusing it.

Scavenger crane lets you use your ordnance many, many times, if there is enough enemies to die all around you, at least 3-4 shots on an average rolls.

5 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

I think in most instances, it would be broken. The only ship that couldn't break this incredible ability would be the Punisher. It wouldn't live long enough to get hardly any ordinance out of its chutes. It simply dies too easy. All other ships would have a shot at abusing it.

??? The Punisher has the third most health per point in the game for an Agility 1 ship. The only things that trump it are the Lambda and the Y-Wing.

6 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

I think in most instances, it would be broken. The only ship that couldn't break this incredible ability would be the Punisher. It wouldn't live long enough to get hardly any ordinance out of its chutes. It simply dies too easy. All other ships would have a shot at abusing it.

Yea this seems to be the consensus.
But it is still difficult to get most ordnance off because of the target lock cost.

17 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

too many 2die ships with ordnance access. The reason things like bombers dont ravage the play field is because usually they can only get 2shots off max, adding any more ordnance other than 1 missile/torp + EM makes them expensive enough to be really painful to lose early. With this i'd just take bombers with Prockets and have some uber cheap, durable enough to not die in 1 hit 4die attack ships.

I somewhat doubt that 5 bombers with unlimited prockets would be that good, you still have to get into range one. Currently you can fly 5 A-Wings with prockets and they are not winning tons of tournaments.

theyre also once. If this was a thing they would also be firing 5die range1 attacks every time they got close enough. The 5Awing list would become insane as hell.

So, along these lines, we have the new Scyk pilot Quinn Jast. I'd be very interested to see how he works out.

16 minutes ago, LunarSol said:

??? The Punisher has the third most health per point in the game for an Agility 1 ship. The only things that trump it are the Lambda and the Y-Wing.

Yeah, stats are for geeks. Get yours on a mat against a good opponent and give her a go. I guarantee two points cause I love them: 1) she'll never do damage (put out red dice) as well as other ships point for point, 2) she'll never survive more red dice than other ships point for point.

If you can get her to equal or do better than any other ship cost point to cost point, then you're a freaking master and should win Worlds every year. Just saying, with salt...yeah, I know.

Punisher also offers nothing a much cheaper and statistically just as durable platform can do equally as good. Lambda at least offers crew support and the Ywing is a cheap turret.

The ONLY thing Punishers do better than Bombers is...ironically... bomb things due to 2 bomb slots and front-pegs pilot. Not worth the immense price hyke though. Those 3 shields at -1 agi doesnt do anything other than offset the -1 agi. Unless the bomber completely blanks on his defense every time he typically lives longer anyway (for me that is, ive had bombers last a surprisingly long time while punishers flop in 2-3 attacks consistently)

Just now, clanofwolves said:

Yeah, stats are for geeks. Get yours on a mat against a good opponent and give her a go. I guarantee two points cause I love them: 1) she'll never do damage (put out red dice) as well as other ships point for point, 2) she'll never survive more red dice than other ships point for point.

If you can get her to equal or do better than any other ship cost point to cost point, then you're a freaking master and should win Worlds every year. Just saying, with salt...yeah, I know.

I'm not saying its a great ship; I'm saying its perfectly durable enough to make use of unlimited Ordnance. There's nothing about it that makes it significantly easier to kill than a Y-Wing or K-Wing for a similar points cost.

Just now, LunarSol said:

I'm not saying its a great ship; I'm saying its perfectly durable enough to make use of unlimited Ordnance. There's nothing about it that makes it significantly easier to kill than a Y-Wing or K-Wing for a similar points cost.

I honestly respect your opinion and see logic derived from an obvious cursory view of the ship; but I laughed so hard I spit tea all over my keyboard; thanks for the laugh though mate! ? ? ?

Just now, clanofwolves said:

I honestly respect your opinion and see logic derived from an obvious cursory view of the ship; but I laughed so hard I spit tea all over my keyboard; thanks for the laugh though mate! ? ? ?

I don't get this, but... fine? Nice chat?

Yes, great chat; it actually raised my spirits, truly. Good laughs are great medicine. Thanks again ?

what makes it easier to kill than a y/kwing is flight pattern. y and kwings have turrets, they can fly elusively and still attack. Punishers HAVE to dive at you so they are way way easier to line up shots against.

IF you manage to get 2 ships locked up close on a y/kwing, yes they die quick. Good luck doing that due to turret flight patterns. Punisher almost never gets to attack without having 2-3 ships fire back. You can dive at them before they fly past you yes but then the rest of his list is now behind you so he wont care.