A swarm of Z-95's with Ion Missles wants to know.

No. That ship is not 'destroyed', it has 'Fled the battlefield'

1 minute ago, McLaine said:

No. That ship is not 'destroyed', it has 'Fled the battlefield'

Rules Refernce, page 11, Fleeing The Battlefield: "A ship that flees the battlefield is destroyed."

Good. I flew a 1 health Z off the board last night to reload the other 4 Z's.

This resulted in a debate" because my opponent to argued I could not measure the range.

I guess you could argue it would be measurable if the ship didn't land entirely outside of the play area...

As the rules say the ship is destroyed, but as your opponent claimed it might not be possible to measure to it as it's considered out of bounds... Pretty gray area if you ask me.

21 hours ago, balindamood said:

Good. I flew a 1 health Z off the board last night to reload the other 4 Z's.

This resulted in a debate" because my opponent to argued I could not measure the range.

The only effects that I can think of that trigger "when destroyed" that we can be absolutely certain don't trigger from fleeing are deploying docked ships (if you flee, they die too, if you're destroyed by other means, they get a damage card and deploy) and Chewbacca (Resistance Pilot).

The range measurement would make it tricky, in many cases you won't have space on the table to place the ship at the final position. The simplest solution would be to not allow these abilities to trigger, but personally I'd like to borrow the method used by bomb tokens "[When a ship flees the battlefield and is destroyed, any abilities that measure range at this time] ignore any portion of [its] base that is outside the play area." (paraphrase of Rules Reference, page 7, Bombs, 8th bullet).

Ultimately however, FFG's intent is unclear to me.

It would have helped if some of the base remained on the board, but I 3-k'd off so the ship landed about 3 mm off, entirely. It was within range 2 for Scavenger crane, but...

2 hours ago, FireSpy said:

Rules Refernce, page 11, Fleeing The Battlefield: "A ship that flees the battlefield is destroyed."

Fair point mate. I did check after I posted. I'll check before next time.

Then technically, at the moment, RAW, yes the scavenger crane procs from a ship that flees the battlefield.

I would hope for there to be a distinction (between fled destroyed, and damage destroyed) and a clarification here though. Thematically, you're salvaging stuff from the debris of the destroyed ship. Hard to imagine that a ship actually spontaneously explodes just because it's gone too far from the centre of the fight.

18 minutes ago, McLaine said:

Hard to imagine that a ship actually spontaneously explodes just because it's gone too far from the centre of the fight.

Creative Speculation: The play area could be surrounded by an invisible force field, upon where if a ship makes contact with said force field it explodes at that point of contact (which can be used to justify a 1mm corner of the ship being off the board causing it to be destroyed). If that reasoning was used, range could be measured to a maximum of the edge of the play area (which makes sense too because you cant measure range in a non-play area - Why are you playing with your range ruler in non-playable space? you will blow up your ruler!!!!)

I'm going to chime in here. The only precedent that I can think of this Chewie which says:

The card text itself is what prevents Chewie activating due to a ship being destroying by fleeing the battlefield.

Scavenger Crane is missing this clause so it would go off due to the ship being destroyed.

The other question is when is the ship destroyed, upon leaving the battlefield or after leaving the battlefield. Lets look at the rules reference:

Based on that I would do things in this order:

• execute the complete maneuver
• see the ship is out of the play area
• acknowledge its destruction
• activate scavenger crane
• remove the ship from the game

I agree, but the question I would have is from where do you measure the Range 1-2 if the entire base is off the play area? Do you physically place the ship off the play area and measure from there?

I would say that if part of the base is still on the map there is no problem. However, everything I'm aware of involving things off the edge of the play area says those things are ignored, so it seems to me that if the entire base is off the play area, Scavenger Crane should not trigger.

Does that make sense?

I'm not in a place to check it right now but don't the Nashtah Pup and Phantom deploy if the ship in which theycare docked goes off the board?

If I'm remembering correctly that precedent establishes that a ship that is off the board can be used as a starting point for a movement template. It seems like you should also be able to measure range from it for effects.

10 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

I'm not in a place to check it right now but don't the Nashtah Pup and Phantom deploy if the ship in which theycare docked goes off the board?

If I'm remembering correctly that precedent establishes that a ship that is off the board can be used as a starting point for a movement template. It seems like you should also be able to measure range from it for effects.

Well scratch that. I checked the pamphlets for all three ships that are capable of deploying other ships. The rules on deploying when the ship is destroyed explictly excludes fleeing the battle.

The moment a ship is placed outside the play area, it's immediately destroyed and gone. According to the rule, " it cannot perform an action or execute a maneuver to move back within the play area. "

So, if the ship that fled cannot do anything to get back into the play area, why are we assuming it's going to stick around long enough for other things to trigger? Especially things that aren't even on that ship.

Might be worth a question to FFG for clarification, but I think the answer is likely to be " it's immediately removed and does not provide a trigger for Scavenger Crane. "

I think that's the way to go.

On 3/11/2017 at 11:37 AM, Parravon said:

The moment a ship is placed outside the play area, it's immediately destroyed and gone. According to the rule, " it cannot perform an action or execute a maneuver to move back within the play area. "

So, if the ship that fled cannot do anything to get back into the play area, why are we assuming it's going to stick around long enough for other things to trigger? Especially things that aren't even on that ship.

Might be worth a question to FFG for clarification, but I think the answer is likely to be " it's immediately removed and does not provide a trigger for Scavenger Crane. "

The new FAQ told us "immediately" doesn't mean anything

1 hour ago, VanderLegion said:

The new FAQ told us "immediately" doesn't mean anything

I just knew someone would go there. So, with that in mind, the FAQ says " Immediately is used as emphasis on some cards , it is purely reminder text and has no distinct game effect. "

BUT... in this instance, it is being used in a "rule" not on a "card".

Either way, I think fleeing the battlefield shouldn't be able to trigger anything that triggers on destruction of said ship.

So, in my opinion I would say that fleeing the battlefield CAN trigger Scavenger Crane as long as part of the base remains on the field and range is measured from what remains in play.

My basis for this:

1. The rules specify that a ship fleeing the battlefield is destroyed.

2. The rules reference for bombs specifying that you ignore the part of a bomb token that is off the field but it still detonates. If the ship is fully off the board there is no point to measure from.

3. New Chewbacca specifically prohibiting fleeing the battlefield but SC not.

It may be FAQ-ED later but that's what I would go with now although I would say there is merit to the argument that fleeing should prevent it as it tends to prevent almost everything else but it's not clear as it stands.

I don't think it should. Fleeing can't trigger upgrades or docked ships on the fleeing ship, it shouldn't trigger this either.

(Whether it *does* is not really answerable I don't think; it's not clear by RAW)

There is or was a ruling about mines and such and that said you measured like normal but the parts of the AoE off the table didn't count. IIRC if a mine was completely off the table you measured as if it were touching the edge of the table. So if you could use Scavenger crane I'd say the same would apply. Assume that the edge of the base is touching the edge of the table.

13 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

I don't think it should. Fleeing can't trigger upgrades or docked ships on the fleeing ship, it shouldn't trigger this either.

(Whether it *does* is not really answerable I don't think; it's not clear by RAW)

Why can't upgrades on the fleeing ship trigger? The rules only say "It cannot perform an action or execute a maneuver to move back within the play area." If Scavenger Crane triggers, then Dead Man's Switch can trigger.

Because the FAQ says they can't.

Or at least, I'm sure it used to, but it doesn't seem to any more.

I'm 99% sure there used to be a rule either in the FAQ or the rules ref that said that if a ship fled the battlefield, none of its upgrades triggered by it being destroyed (or by it completing a manoeuvre) could trigger, nor could it undock any docked ships.

But I can't see it.

Either I'm going senile or they removed a bunch of FAQs in the latest release.

5 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Or at least, I'm sure it used to, but it doesn't seem to any more.

I have a bunch of the old FAQ's I'll see if I can find it.

Looking though FAQ 1.1 from Feb 2013 though the most recent one I have, and I can't find anything like that when I do a text search for Flee.

FAQ 3.2 from Sept 2015 had a thing in it about docked ships and how they were all destroyed if the carrier fled the battlefield. However that was not in the FAQ as of 3.2.3 dated Oct 2015

Quote

If the carrier ship flees the battlefield, it and all its docked ships are destroyed. If the carrier ship is destroyed (but has not fled the battlefield), before it is removed from the play area, each docked ship receives 1 facedown Damage card and must immediately deploy.

It's in the rulebook.

Page 11 of the rules reference.

Quote

When a ship flees the battlefield, it is immediately destroyed and removed from the play area. It cannot resolve any of its Ship or Upgrade card abilities.