Ships without titles: A census

By Kumagoro, in X-Wing

It occurs to me that not a lot of ships are left without a title. Lately, they've been using titles in ways that push them in a new direction, namely the direction of providing additional space for special ruling on a ship. This is also conceptually different from what the titles once were, as they used to denote either a unique ship (there's only one Millennium Falcon in existence) or a subset created for specific uses (not all Interceptors are Royal Guard, but how should there even be a Special Forces TIE without Special Ops Training?) On top of that, this kind of additional ruling is being exploited for fixing flawed or obsolete ships.

So here's the list of the ships that don't have a title yet, which means they could easily receive a fix through one (that's true of ships with titles, too, since they could always give them another one).

REBEL

  • B-Wing
  • E-Wing
  • K-Wing
  • X-Wing
  • Z-95 Headhunter

I don't have a lot to comment here, except that if B-Wing/E2 were first released today, it would've probably been a title, and the same possibly goes for Integrated Astromech as well.

IMPERIAL

  • TIE Fighter
  • TIE Phantom
  • TIE Punisher
  • TIE/fo Fighter

I'm not sure the TIE Fighters would ever need a title (despite probably having the lore for coming up with one). But if the Punisher will ever get a fix, it'll be through a title. Maybe something that gives a TL after a certain type of maneuver, or maybe a discount for a slot of ordnance (like: 4 pts. for a torpedo, a la TIE x/1). As for the Phantom, it's not likely to ever get anything, but if it did I'd like so much to have Advanced Cloaking Device turned into a title, so we can use Stygium Particle Accelerator, which is otherwise doomed to remain on the shelf.

Also, the Firespray could certainly use a fix via title, but they already wasted Slave I in that underwhelming way. I prefer to stop considering the Firespray an Imperial ship at all. It's only there because they wanted it in the game before the Scum faction even existed. The rationale of Boba Fett being hired by the Empire is moot, because that's true of IG-88, Dengar and Bossk as well. The thing is, the Empire didn't produce the Firespray-31, it shouldn't be part of their fleet. I personally would be fine with removing it from the Imperial roster entirely, but I get that they can't just tell players, "You know those Imperial pilot cards you have? Kindly throw them away", so I resigned myself to the fact that such anomaly will persist forever.

SCUM

  • Kihraxz Fighter (EDIT June 9: Amended now!)
  • Quadjumper
  • Z-95 Headhunter

Wow, Scum really are almost full-titled. And I bet the Kihraxz will get one with a fix at some point (EDIT: And it did!). It's interesting that a new ship like the Quadjumper didn't go the title route for Spacetug Tractor Array. Sometimes the requirement of using the modification slot is part of the cost.

So what do you think a title for these ships could be like?

Edited by Kumagoro

The punisher one I hope for is one that makes it shootier:

Possibly a dual card (missiles/torps on one side, bombs on the other), or possibly all one one card: After making an attack with your primary weapon, you may make an attack with an equipped (missile) or (torpedo) secondary weapon; if instructed to discard the secondary weapon, do not do so. WHen you drop a bomb, you may instead drop two identical bomb tokens, one using the 1 bank left template, one using the 1 bank right template.

The first part means that you can use your primary weapon as essentially a targetting laser via FCS, meaning you can get tl/focus ordnance every round and you don't need deadeye to shoot without setup, the second is obvious, and it gives infinite ammo for missiles and torps, and effectively double ammo for bombs, which means you need EM a lot less.

Probably 0 points.

They gave a title for the M3A because it was so bad and not played competitively. Using that kind of logic, I agree with you that the Punisher needs something. I think the Starviper should make your list as people only buy it for autothrusters. T-65's and Kihraxz's seem similarly costed to me and I've pretty given up on them upgrading the T-65 since HoTR. I would bet the reason we don't see Kihraxz's comparatively is because T-65's have better pilot abilities overall and Scum has more economical options -- not because it needs a boost.

I don't think we'll see a non-unique title for Z's and Tie's because they are priced well and with a low starting cost of 12 points, they could be tough to balance in high numbers.

Something I've been thinking about this week is that it would be neat to give the B-Wing a Tie/D type of title. There's already a precedent for it with Defenders, but unlike the Tie/D it needs to cost something. According to juggler's X-Wing Meta Analyzer , its the 28th most used ship in tournaments. The B has nice slots and a good title bar so it's a shame we don't see it on the table more.

The M3A always had a title. The fact that they had to improve it notwithstanding.

I could see a putative StarViper fix being a title, being an erratum to the current title, or being a Torpedo slot upgrade like Chardaan Refit. Or potentially all 3.

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I don't have a lot to comment here, except that if B-Wing/E2 were first released today, it would've probably been a title, and the same possibly goes for Integrated Astromech as well.

B-wing/E2 possibly although it offers more mechanical decisions as a modification. Integrated Astromech was released well after titles had stepped into their current role. I think it's very deliberately a mod to leave the title slot open.

Quote

The B has nice slots and a good title bar so it's a shame we don't see it on the table more.

It was the gold standard for combat power once. It'll be interesting to see if the sweeping nerfs to the Jumpmaster and Palpatine bring it back in force.

Apparently a B-wing list wrecked Parattani after Parattani at one of the System Opens though.

Edited by Blue Five

TIE Fighters and TIE/fo getting a title would pretty much only be a swarm-based thing, something that does nothing on its own and probably does nothing in pairs. If at all. Dont really need it though i agree. Titles are both specific ships and giving a ship type a unique nonpilot ability, so the latter would be for most of these ships.

Punisher needs to be a tank. Its the same exact dang thing as the Bomber with a Boost instead of Barrelroll for some reason (boost almost never helps while broll does a lot). Its designed to withstand incoming attacks while it bombards areas Stardestroyers cant reach, something Bombers cant get to because of the incoming fire. In this game 1 agi is typically worth about 2-3 health on average, so the punisher is not tankier at all and in fact less maneuverable as well. A title to give it some kind of super front-facing shield would be epic (When defending, if the attacker is in your front arc, cancel one hit result before resolving damage).

Phantom title could easily be a "fix" to what they should have been to begin with. A complete overhaul of design, +1 hull +1 agi -2pts cannot take Adv Cloaking Device. Biggest thing about phantoms that bug the hell out of me is they live or die by that stupid card, i'd love to see their casual durability buffed and that card removed entirely so now cloak HAS to be an action of your own choosing. Eh...maybe 0pts instead of -2.

Starviper needs a title that gives it the slots Virago gives it. That should not have been unique since the ship simple cannot function without those slots. Errata Virago to also grant it +1 shield or something so its still the better title, but unique.

KFighter... personally to me it feels like a jouster, but its nowhere near tanky enough to do that. And it really, really needs barrelroll. Perhaps a title that adds the barrelroll action and gives them some bonus firepower if both ships are facing each other (similar to Fearlessness but no range restriction)?

Kwing is probably the only rebel ship that doesnt really need a title. No idea what it would even get from a title without a repurposing one. Xwings could get the same idea i mentioned for Kfighter, though that would be lame to give them literally the same title. Not sure about Z's E's or B's.
IA isnt a title on purpose. Black One would be impossible to use as well as any future T65 titles along side IA.

Edited by Vineheart01

1 hour ago, Kumagoro said:

As for the Phantom, it's not likely to ever get anything, but if it did I'd like so much to have Advanced Cloaking Device turned into a title, so we can use Stygium Particle Accelerator, which is otherwise doomed to remain on the shelf.

Are you implying Phantom need tankiness buff? It's already a big part of the imperial meta and giving him TWO additional evade tokens EVERY TURN is what woud make it very balanced.

TIE Fighters and TIE/fo getting a title would pretty much only be a swarm-based thing, something that does nothing on its own and probably does nothing in pairs. If at all. Dont really need it though i agree. Titles are both specific ships and giving a ship type a unique nonpilot ability, so the latter would be for most of these ships.

Punisher needs to be a tank. Its the same exact dang thing as the Bomber with a Boost instead of Barrelroll for some reason (boost almost never helps while broll does a lot). Its designed to withstand incoming attacks while it bombards areas Stardestroyers cant reach, something Bombers cant get to because of the incoming fire. In this game 1 agi is typically worth about 2-3 health on average, so the punisher is not tankier at all and in fact less maneuverable as well. A title to give it some kind of super front-facing shield would be epic (When defending, if the attacker is in your front arc, cancel one hit result before resolving damage).

Phantom title could easily be a "fix" to what they should have been to begin with. A complete overhaul of design, +1 hull +1 agi -2pts cannot take Adv Cloaking Device. Biggest thing about phantoms that bug the hell out of me is they live or die by that stupid card, i'd love to see their casual durability buffed and that card removed entirely so now cloak HAS to be an action of your own choosing. Eh...maybe 0pts instead of -2.

Starviper needs a title that gives it the slots Virago gives it. That should not have been unique since the ship simple cannot function without those slots. Errata Virago to also grant it +1 shield or something so its still the better title, but unique.

KFighter... personally to me it feels like a jouster, but its nowhere near tanky enough to do that. And it really, really needs barrelroll. Perhaps a title that adds the barrelroll action and gives them some bonus firepower if both ships are facing each other (similar to Fearlessness but no range restriction)?

Kwing is probably the only rebel ship that doesnt really need a title. No idea what it would even get from a title without a repurposing one. Xwings could get the same idea i mentioned for Kfighter, though that would be lame to give them literally the same title. Not sure about Z's E's or B's

Stygium Particle Accelerator was never worth 2 points less than ACD because ACD let you shoot every turn. It doubled your firepower relative to a non-ACD phantom and therefore was the only card you ever saw.

To make non-ACD phantoms a thing you'd need a way to narrow that firepower gap.

I disagree on boost on the Punisher. Boost helps a lot with the bombing options, more so I think than Barrel Roll, and especially on Deathrain. It just needs to be more killy or more tanky or cheaper, ideally two out of the three. My preference would be killier and cheaper.

The K Wing absolutely doesn't need anything, it's already the single most annoying ship in the meta and one of the most flexible.

Boost OR barrelroll doesnt help bombs if you cant get the 2nd action somehow. And unlike bombers, punishers lack an EPT to get PTL, forcing you to use an UPS to Coordinate.

The reason Kwings are such amazing bombers is the SLAM into the bomb drop. It lets you finagle your bomb drops reactively instead of predictively. If Punishers got a title that lets them drop bombs after boosting then yeah it would be a great ability.

What the Punisher needs is a reason to take it over the TIE bomber. I struggle to think of a role it's five points better that than the equivalent TIE bomber.

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The reason Kwings are such amazing bombers is the SLAM into the bomb drop. It lets you finagle your bomb drops reactively instead of predictively. If Punishers got a title that lets them drop bombs after boosting then yeah it would be a great ability.

Imagine if they'd kept the ability that lets them drop AoE bombs mid-slam from the first article.

Edited by Blue Five
2 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Boost OR barrelroll doesnt help bombs if you cant get the 2nd action somehow. And unlike bombers, punishers lack an EPT to get PTL, forcing you to use an UPS to Coordinate.

The reason Kwings are such amazing bombers is the SLAM into the bomb drop. It lets you finagle your bomb drops reactively instead of predictively. If Punishers got a title that lets them drop bombs after boosting then yeah it would be a great ability.

EI. EI is the only way that works anyway.

But giving them a title that gives them essentially free EI for bombs and boosts only (maybe even allowing the dropping of dial-bombs as an action if you want to) would be part of an interesting fix.

  • B-Wing- Maybe a unique title that adds extra shootiness to represent the prototype from Rebels. Would maybe give you a reason to fly the named B-wings a bit.
  • E-Wing- Generics need love but Corran basically makes a balanced title impossible. Bump needs to be in the form of astromech in my oppinion. R6 astromechs are an obvious choice to add some good options for E,X and Y-wings.
  • K-Wing- nope
  • X-Wing- Absolutely essential and the sooner the better. X-wings in X-wing please! (note the plural, Biggs ain't enough) Needs to be an offensive boost without aiding defense because Biggs.
  • Z-95 Headhunter- probably not. Just as a mental exercise how about a title that decreases attack by one but costs -2 points?
  • TIE Fighter- Just like Z-95, it is very difficult to balance if you can field seven ships with that title in a squad
  • TIE Phantom- I'd be on board with something that locks out ACD and creates a fabrege cannon.
  • TIE Punisher- How about a title that gives a Sabine-Like effect for missiles, torps, and bombs.
  • TIE/fo Fighter- Wait for episode 8 and maybe...
  • Kihraxz Fighter- Yes. Probably Vaksai and make it punchier somehow.
  • Quadjumper- Not anytime soon.
25 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

The reason Kwings are such amazing bombers is the SLAM into the bomb drop. It lets you finagle your bomb drops reactively instead of predictively. If Punishers got a title that lets them drop bombs after boosting then yeah it would be a great ability.

I recall when I first read over that wave and looked at the K-Wing vs. the Punisher, I immediately thought, since the K-Wing has the turret to make it tougher to catch and kill, why didn't the SLAM ability be an upgrade for the Punisher? That would make it different and worth the points over the TIE Bomber and make it a tough catch and kill, thus making it in a real way tankier. It seems there was a design flaw in that Wave with that ability. Maybe I missed something, but SLAM seems so very Imperial.

The K Wing is the ship that canonically first had SLAM, basically, is why it's the only one that does as a base.

The Missile Boat would as well IIRC.

Personally I think the K Wing just has too many options available. It can bomb several times better than any other ship in the game. It has crew, which is the slot that offers the most flexibility in the game other than EPT, which fortunately is the one thing it DOESN'T have, and includes options for significantly increasing durability (C3PO), shootiness (Gunner with PWT), bombiness (Sabine), control (Tactician) and even adding regen (R2D2 and Chewie). It has a turret slot for TLTs, and if you want to use one, it doesn't even have a donut hole because it has a PWT. It can arc dodge at high PS, or block at low PS with equal facility. It can shoot missiles and torpedoes, and is one of only 3 generic ships in the game that can take Long Range Scanners. It even has regen native to its highest PS pilot. There's literally not another ship in the game that has that many options. It's my least favourite ship in the game by some margin.

It's also ugly as sin.

1 hour ago, Roman109 said:

The B has nice slots and a good title bar so it's a shame we don't see it on the table more.

The B-wing suffers from its limited dial. It's strength in earlier waves was due to its decent jousting efficiency but the growth of repositioning moves and ships that can get large numbers of attack dice have eroded that advantage somewhat. Still a fun ship and I like Nera with her turreted torpedoes.

Not sure how the B-wing could be improved without spoiling its defining characteristics. A Defender /D-style title allowing it to fire a cheap cannon as well as its primary weapons would certainly be great. 2 drawbacks are that it might be a bit too good with FCS and FFG seem to dislike applying the same fix twice to different ships. Maybe a title allowing it to fire a primary weapon after firing a torpedo. That would be good but limited to only twice per game.

1 hour ago, Voitek said:

Are you implying Phantom need tankiness buff? It's already a big part of the imperial meta and giving him TWO additional evade tokens EVERY TURN is what woud make it very balanced.

Stygium says preform a free evade action, so only one evade token a turn

I like whoever posted the idea of a title for the B-Wing like the TIE/D title but with cost, that's a great idea.

T-65 X-Wing and Kihraxz both need titles that add barrel roll IMO that's all they really need. I put VT on both of those ships when I run them and they are so much better with a barrel roll option

StarViper needs a non unique title with what the unique title gives and the unique title can be errata'd to be better somehow. Someone already said that...

TIE punisher... needs more hull and maybe a way to mitigate damage... I really don't know with this one because it needs a lot of help and it hard to walk the line between "fixed" and "overpowered" edit: what if they gave the punisher the SLAM action?

Edited by Phoenix5454
4 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

The B-wing suffers from its limited dial. It's strength in earlier waves was due to its decent jousting efficiency but the growth of repositioning moves and ships that can get large numbers of attack dice have eroded that advantage somewhat. Still a fun ship and I like Nera with her turreted torpedoes.

Not sure how the B-wing could be improved without spoiling its defining characteristics. A Defender /D-style title allowing it to fire a cheap cannon as well as its primary weapons would certainly be great. 2 drawbacks are that it might be a bit too good with FCS and FFG seem to dislike applying the same fix twice to different ships. Maybe a title allowing it to fire a primary weapon after firing a torpedo. That would be good but limited to only twice per game.

I'd like to see B Wings get an option to give them Reinforce tokens. It seems like a good way to make them as tanky as they're actually supposed to be without giving them actual regen.

2 hours ago, Kumagoro said:

Wow, Scum really are almost full-titled.

Because most of their ships in the lore were individual models owned by specific characters, as opposed to classes of ships like X-Wings and TIEs.

3-point B-wing Title that increases attack value by 1. Does that break the game? It'd sure make me happy.

Just now, gamblertuba said:

3-point B-wing Title that increases attack value by 1. Does that break the game? It'd sure make me happy.

4 naked Blue Squadron pilots throwing 16 dice (20 at Range 1)? Might just be a smidge too good. How about a unique "Blade-wing prototype" title that does it. Then you can field 1 super B-Wing. After all, the Rebels never mass-produced the version that Hera flew.

1 hour ago, Blue Five said:

It was the gold standard for combat power once. It'll be interesting to see if the sweeping nerfs to the Jumpmaster and Palpatine bring it back in force.

I hope so. I'd never flown them before (I was away from the game for a while) now I have three and am enjoying flying them.

46 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

The B-wing suffers from its limited dial. It's strength in earlier waves was due to its decent jousting efficiency but the growth of repositioning moves and ships that can get large numbers of attack dice have eroded that advantage somewhat. Still a fun ship and I like Nera with her turreted torpedoes.

Oh god yes, that dial, ugh. I too like Nera, with adrenaline rush because of that dial.

41 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I'd like to see B Wings get an option to give them Reinforce tokens. It seems like a good way to make them as tanky as they're actually supposed to be without giving them actual regen.

I put Chewbacca on one, very tanky.

30 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

3-point B-wing Title that increases attack value by 1. Does that break the game? It'd sure make me happy.

It might.

What's sad is the Firespray has two titles and both are pretty lame.

Since it could use a fix anyways, I'd like to see two new titles for it. One that's scum only and one that's imperial only.