Anyone recall the numbers on this?

In what cases should a ship choose one over the other?

Would I want say...An x7 Delta to have the guarentee one HP or a possible 2-3 HP?

Stealth gives increasing probability of returns the higher base agility the ship is. For an /x7, the choice should almost always be Stealth Device. With the focus and evade they get, you can push that additional die much farther and keep stealth device longer.

Hull is better on ships with low AGI.

If you have 3 dice and focus/evade every round, stealth. If you have less than that, neither, unless you're Countdown or Tel Trevura.

Hull, every single time. The second you trust green dice not to **** you is the last time you'll make the mistake of using Stealth Device on anyone that isn't Soontir Fel - and to be honest I wouldn't even put it there.

If...that's what your spending points on, hull. Stealth will fail at the worst possible time and be useless. Hull can theoretically be worse but will be the same every time.

The only ship I'd run stealth on is Fel because he will have constant mods. But now he's got other issues.

Stealth don't help none against bombs.

I still run Soontir, and I do so with Hull... the game nowadays will brutalise you with three hull...

Are we talking exclusively small ships? Because on big ships, countermeasures are fantastic.

Used to be stealth if you have good defense but these days it'd take hull almost always.

Here's my main argument for Stealth Device: if it prevents even a single point of damage, it's paid for itself. If it prevents anything more than one, you're into pure value.

Stealth device is guaranteed to increase your odds of evading an attack, and it may well do that even if it goes pop on the first attack. A 3 hit attack landing on your 2 agility ships is a certain point of damage. The odds of rolling 2 natural evades from 2 dice aren't pretty, but they're significantly better from 3, and there's the bonus chance of 3 evades.

It comes down to whether you're willing to gamble on it, rather than take the definite single point of damage.

Maaaaannnn I was just debating this on OL today, but shields. Thanks for the telepathy and clarification!

11 hours ago, Razgriz25thinf said:

Stealth gives increasing probability of returns the higher base agility the ship is. For an /x7, the choice should almost always be Stealth Device. With the focus and evade they get, you can push that additional die much farther and keep stealth device longer.

Hull is better on ships with low AGI.

The phrasing is a little misleading here. Fairly sure what you mean is Hull Upgrade is better on low agility ships than Stealth Device is on low agility ships. Hull Upgrade is stronger on high agility ships than Hull Upgrade is on low agility ships because hit points are worth more the more agility they're behind.

I believe the expected "break even" point was somewhere around 3 agility. If you get more agility than that and/or more dice modification the Stealth Device may prove more useful. For anything below 3 Agility the Hull Upgrade was the clear winner as the SD is just too unreliable.

2 minutes ago, Blue Five said:

Quote

I believe the expected "break even" point was somewhere around 3 agility.

Not that simple because of modifiers. Stealth Device is good on 3 agility Soontir but probably not on a TIE fighter.

That's why it is "around" 3 agility. Soontir and his token stack certainly push it toward that higher end where Stealth Device does start to pull ahead. With your TIE Fighter I contend they are about even at least if a Focus token is available when shot at; here it is more about certainty vs. possible outcomes as the math on those possible outcomes averages close to the certain result. Of course with a TIE Fighter the real question probably shouldn't be which is better but rather "is there a more effective way to spend those points." After all, although you get the same total number of "hit points" I think most people would rather have four Academy Pilots than three APs with either upgrade.

The Hull upgrade always lets you take one more card before getting destroyed although sometimes you're dealt overkill and it wouldn't matter anyway. Stealth Device can stop 0-? points of damage from ever making it through the compare results step but it is so dependent on dice. I guess SD can get a black mark against it these days as there are more and more things that wouldn't care about the extra agility anyway yet they still would have to cause the extra card of damage.

No luv for shield upgrade. We need to reduce SU cost by 1 point!

So it seems like my dilemma Wich is....What to put on a pair of x7 Delta defenders is still in a bit of a fog.

Perhaps it's going to be a matter of " try them both multiple times and see wich I prefer".

I like stealth on Assaj. It only works half the time, but when it does...

The general consensus here has mostly been that if you already have 3AG and any other defense (token stack, thrusters, ability, ETC) you can pretty much always get more out of stealth. Anything less than that it's hull all the way.

Stealth, and shields. I am no fan of hull upgrade unless I can either flip faceup cards down, or remove damage cards completely. 9/10 times I will not take hull

The barrier is 3 agility IMO, it is also wise to consider what you have for hull in the first place. A TIE defender (6damage to kill) may need less certainty than a TIE interceptor (3) or TIE Advanced (4). It's hard statistics because Stealth has an opportunity to pay out your entire game, hull in no way has that potential and hull has downfalls a successful evade doesn't such as crits have a chance to negate hulls effects in the form of Direct Hit's, Major Exlosion, or in less tangible ways such as PS0 or Blinded Pilot.

I like 4 agility dice chances, almost everyone has some biases about perception of their luck so a lot of comparison is like "barely registering when you evaded something by exactly the necessary amount" vs. "how mad I was when SD failed." & not considering hull taking crit can be as bad as a useless SD or worse with the wrong crit at the wrong time.