Can the plucky little guy come out of his hiding spot?

Not a ton of offense but with reduced zuckuss does fel feel better about poking around?

What else preys on him?

K-wing bombers still work very well indeed against him. Asajj is probably the killer though - Fel has to work hard to avoid the large, mobile arc, and a double stressed Fel is usually a dead Fel.

His BFF just got his head chopped off, so he is probably too busy mourning to make a comeback. He is probably in permanent retirement at this stage of the game.

Stress builds do. The fatal flaw of the Stresshog was it's terrible mobility, which has been rectified in the Stressmule. Not only the hightened mobility, but of course the rear firing arc, as well as the Gunner clause. Soontir has to choose between taking damage and losing Stealth Device, or gaining another stress token, and for Soontir it's especially not very clear which is better. And of course Assaj being very much a thing.

Offensively Soontir still isn't all that much better against /x7 than anything else is. The thing is that if Stress is in the meta, /x7s are just as boned as Soontir is, so who knows.

Bombs are also pretty effective against Soontir. Now that K-Wings feel less threatened, we might see more bombs.

I would hesitate a little with fielding Soontir until we know for sure what the meta looks like. Assaj isn't likely to go away any time soon, /x7 is still the best Imperial ship, and ARC-170s are here too.

Soontir still has Palp, of course. Seasoned pilots who are used to playing Soontir will go for Palp regardless i feel. Just like every other nerf FFG has put out, people will avoid nerfed stuff regardless of whether or not it's actually terrible now or not, and Palp is definitely not terrible. Palp is still Soontir's best shot at being good.

Good points. I probably shouldn't rush to sooth my thirst for interceptors.

VI Jax probably still an OK choice situationally...But them bombs though....

Any Zuckuss player would probably just take the stress to take down Soontir?

Like i said, nobody is gonna want to run nerfed cards solely because those cards are listed on the "Errata" portion of the FAQ. It'll be a while before we see a large-scale usage of Zuckuss once people realize he's still actually pretty good.

What are you guys talking about? I just flew him yesterday! This thread is treason against the Baron!

And BOMBS. SERIOUSLY? Soontir took the skies when K-Wing was already around! BOMBERS HAS ALWAYS BEEN A THREAT!

The Sky isn't falling guys. Wipe the dust, fly your interceptors tonight.

Please.

Seriously.

It wasn't Zuckuss that killed Fel, it was Ryad & Vessery.

10 minutes ago, Grivoire said:

What are you guys talking about? I just flew him yesterday! This thread is treason against the Baron!

And BOMBS. SERIOUSLY? Soontir took the skies when K-Wing was already around! BOMBERS HAS ALWAYS BEEN A THREAT!

The Sky isn't falling guys. Wipe the dust, fly your interceptors tonight.

Please.

Seriously.

Sabine is the big threat, not *just* bombers.

Also, Cluster Mines have been fixed since then. Now, hitting Soontir with a set of cluster mines kills him on average, rather than leaving him alive on average, even not taking Sabine into account.

Fel is still reasonable, but a /x7 is still better for the same cost.

Soontir's problem is that even his 3 dice are feeling a bit antiquated for damage. Old palp aces had a serious alpha strike problem.

That' said, with correct choices, hes still good late game, just not early game.

1 minute ago, Blail Blerg said:

Soontir's problem is that even his 3 dice are feeling a bit antiquated for damage. Old palp aces had a serious alpha strike problem.

That' said, with correct choices, hes still good late game, just not early game.

This too - 3 dice with just focus don't really cut it unless you've got a LOT sets of them.

1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

Sabine is the big threat, not *just* bombers.

Also, Cluster Mines have been fixed since then. Now, hitting Soontir with a set of cluster mines kills him on average, rather than leaving him alive on average, even not taking Sabine into account.

Fel is still reasonable, but a /x7 is still better for the same cost.

1

I completely agree with Soontir being easily killed with Sabine and bombs. But the problem I have here is that no one complains on Sabine doing the same to Fenn, if only with a bit more effort. Fel is just as durable as Fenn. He is a consistent damage glass cannon whereas Fenn is the burst damage variant.

What it lacks in durability, it makes up in maneuvering. This has always been true even before the X7 introduction. Also with the arrival of Wave 10, guessing where Fel goes is even harder now more than ever with Stridan and his R1-3 coordinate. Add Systems officer and he also hits harder than ever.

People overly underestimates TIE Interceptor's value with the introduction of strikers and x7 defenders. The generics may be slightly underperforming, but aces like Soontir and Jax is still up there IMO.

Actaully I played a bunch of Upsilon recently. Major stridan is too ahrd to fly, and the Upsilon is really tricky. Unlike the Lambda, it doesn't have 1 slight greens, big difference. The fast moves don't really help. Even the 1 hard I rarely use.

--

Burst dmg is good in this meta. Burst combined with relative durability, a good combo. That's Fenn Rau.

8 minutes ago, Grivoire said:

I completely agree with Soontir being easily killed with Sabine and bombs. But the problem I have here is that no one complains on Sabine doing the same to Fenn, if only with a bit more effort. Fel is just as durable as Fenn. He is a consistent damage glass cannon whereas Fenn is the burst damage variant.

What it lacks in durability, it makes up in maneuvering. This has always been true even before the X7 introduction. Also with the arrival of Wave 10, guessing where Fel goes is even harder now more than ever with Stridan and his R1-3 coordinate. Add Systems officer and he also hits harder than ever.

People overly underestimates TIE Interceptor's value with the introduction of strikers and x7 defenders. The generics may be slightly underperforming, but aces like Soontir and Jax is still up there IMO.

Fenn has better damage, better range 1 survivability, and crucially, an extra hit point makes him 1/3 again more durable against bombs particularly.

It's not that squints are necessarily bad, it's just that /x7s are *better*.

2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Fenn has better damage, better range 1 survivability, and crucially, an extra hit point makes him 1/3 again more durable against bombs particularly.

It's not that squints are necessarily bad, it's just that /x7s are *better*.

x7s are not so hot post nerf. I'd say theyre about equal. The bump and action evade are really harsh in the current stress meta. (Asajj is really darn good.....)

Shadowcaster mobile arc is becoming a disaster: The ships is aggressively cheaply costed, it turns off autothrusters, it makes 180 firing arc, and since ship is so cheap it lets you get a crap crap ton of aggressively good upgrades, latts, bmst, feedback array.

Just now, Blail Blerg said:

x7s are not so hot post nerf. I'd say theyre about equal. The bump and action evade are really harsh in the current stress meta. (Asajj is really darn good.....)

As if Soontir is good in a stress meta?

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

As if Soontir is good in a stress meta?

If he can avoid the stressers, yes he's better. Theoretically, he can def arc dodge Asajj's mobile "better", just not well.

The rest of the stress stuff is pretty tame: ARCS, can be arc dodged (lol). Rebel Captive, not taken. Kylo shuttle, limited and only can be used on unstressed.

Also a note: Coordinating soontir from an Upsilon is really **** tricky especially early game.

The main thing Soontir is better than x7s at is arc dodging and mobility in general. They have him beat on durability by a long shot, they have him beat on damage because they can get double mods on about half their shots if they want to without paying 2 points and a mod slot for Targetting Computer, they have him beat on turning round... The thing he does better is arc dodge.

And Assaj in particular is very difficult to arc dodge and still reliable get shots.

And Defenders are way less vulnerable to stress for my money. Sure, stress shuts them down and they have bad greens unless they have Mk2 (which they ALL should now). But double stress Fel and he's easy meat. Single stress a Defender and it's still got 3 shields to chew through before it's as easy.

E: I'm very seriously considering Rebel Captive at the moment on VI HotCop Gunner Engine RAC over Vader, because Mindlink is still gonna be a thing and Expertise is becoming more and more common.

I'm really considering running an Upsilon with Inspiring Recruit. That or going OG 2014 with Nationals and Yorr.

He's fine. Reason most say he's dead is cause they had to use the crutch of Palp in the first place. If you flew him without Palp before, he will be fine now. I'm excited to start fielding him again. Zuckuss was really my only reason not to fly him. Never flew him with Palp. The stress meta will reign again, but if you are smart with Fel, that isn't as much of an issue as some here think it to be.

23 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

I'm really considering running an Upsilon with Inspiring Recruit. That or going OG 2014 with Nationals and Yorr.

34 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Actaully I played a bunch of Upsilon recently. Major stridan is too ahrd to fly, and the Upsilon is really tricky. Unlike the Lambda, it doesn't have 1 slight greens, big difference. The fast moves don't really help. Even the 1 hard I rarely use.

--

Burst dmg is good in this meta. Burst combined with relative durability, a good combo. That's Fenn Rau.

In return for being harder to clear stress with, Upsilon (Stridan esp) allows Soontir to do 4-5 actions and leave the round stressless. So even if he's stressed by Asajj, either Asajj remove it using latts or it's just one stress to remove. Try Stridan with Adv sensors + systems officer + inspiring recruit. Still enough points for Omega Leader.

27 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

The main thing Soontir is better than x7s at is arc dodging and mobility in general. They have him beat on durability by a long shot, they have him beat on damage because they can get double mods on about half their shots if they want to without paying 2 points and a mod slot for Targetting Computer, they have him beat on turning round... The thing he does better is arc dodge.

And Assaj in particular is very difficult to arc dodge and still reliable get shots.

And Defenders are way less vulnerable to stress for my money. Sure, stress shuts them down and they have bad greens unless they have Mk2 (which they ALL should now). But double stress Fel and he's easy meat. Single stress a Defender and it's still got 3 shields to chew through before it's as easy.

E: I'm very seriously considering Rebel Captive at the moment on VI HotCop Gunner Engine RAC over Vader, because Mindlink is still gonna be a thing and Expertise is becoming more and more common.

7

Fel can still get away with ships equipped with inspiring recruit. Also in the round he's double stressed, he has 3? focus + 1 evade to defend himself with, as opposed to say 1 focus and an evade. He's not as easily focus fired unless the green dice really doesn't want you to win that day. On a side note, I agree Asajj is very difficult to arc dodge.

Also that was a good point on reb captive. with expertise and mindlink stress meta is definitely back!

The round he IS double stressed he's fine. The round AFTER he's double stressed he's stuffed, and relying on a Recruit on another ship to limit that is risky.

Soontir doesn't need stealth device as much these days, since he's higher PS than most enemies and can arc dodge very well. He does need targeting computer to punch through today's token stacking but with 3 actions per turn and high PS I'd take him over Vessery in most matchups. The latter might have the endurance, but he's also quite predictable and restricted in his choices. He can't dance around the enemy like Soontir can. Stress also isn't as much of a problem as people seem to believe. I've (relatively) recently seen Soontir vs Paratanni and he did much better than most defenders would have. Fenn found it almost impossible to get him in arc at range 1-2 The same went for Assajj - he was either close enough to reposition out of arc or far enough to reposition out of R2 (or out of range period). Manny couldn't hit him at all, for obvious reasons. Granted, relying on PTL meant he couldn't do much to Assajj, so he simply won on points, killing everything else eventually.

Long story short, he's still a beast and a lot of fun to fly... until you get to face a Sabine K-wing list. Some people claim that bombs existed before Sabine and they were capable of killing Soontir rather well even without her... and they're right. The difference isn't that Sabine suddenly made bombs a viable counter vs Soontir - they were always good enough for that, though now they're far more reliable. The real difference is that Sabine made bombs viable against many other lists. Back in ye olden times, a bomber K-wing was an anomaly and you could safely ignore the possibility of facing one - even if you were unlucky enough to draw such a match up in the course of a large tournament, by the time you got to the top cut you could be fairly certain it would be eliminated by other lists along the way. Sabine changed that - you now have to consider you WILL face bomber K-wings even in top tier. And that, sadly, makes Soontir a no-go for me.

I think he can.

Soontir Fel
Push the Limit, Title: Autothursters + Targeting Computer

Darth Vader
Predator, Title: Adv. Targeting Computer and Engine Upgrade

Captain Yorr
Inspiring Recruit and Kylo Ren Crew
99 points

Captain Yorr can either have Soontir remove two stress tokens a turn or he can intercept two a turn himself and still retain his action. Yorr also has the job of making Vader's ATC a much bigger threat.