Before making my question I have to point out that, I have no major problem with the current errata, since most of them were needed to some extend.

I do have problems tough with the way it was done. If you wanted to change the way cards work, then you should release them in a new edition. Having to log into forums every once in a while to see whats changed and what is still the same is not they way to do it.

How am I supposed to introduce the game to a new guy? Put a squad in front of him with cards that have not changed since their release only? Create a squad that have a few cards changed by errata, but use the original text? Create a squad with some cards changed by errata and stick the new text on them? Or create a squad using cards changed by errata and ask the guy to remember the new way the cards work?

Frankly speaking, if I was introduced to a game that a major portion of the game components was changed by errata but not updated with a new version, and I had to remember all the changes by heart, I would probably not bother picking it up.

I understand and welcome FAQs. Its not always going to be clear how some of the game rules work. It also sends the message to someone that is thinking to pick up the game, that the game is looked after and that the designers regularly maintain it. FAQs though should only be an interpretation / detailed explanation of the most up to date rules, and not a rewriting of the actual rules.

Any game that you have to have a full list of errata in order to play, while playing straight from the box is the wrong way to play, will eventually acquire the reputation of being broken even if its regularly maintained through errata and FAQs.

There are always going to be designing mistakes, its in the human nature and I will not blame you or the game designers for things that slipped to production but did not quite work.

You ve proven in the past that you can support games with new components when needed.

On top of my head I can name Mansions of Madness that you gave as errata cards with new editions. People that did not want to buy the new edition of the game that the errata cards were included, only needed to send you the old cards and you exchanged them with the new ones.

Dont you think its time to do the same for X-Wing?

I usually don't use top teir meta lists when teaching a new player, usually keep it simple and focus on the basics and enjoying the game. If someone introduced me to this game with the large string of card combos that exist in this game now for my first game then I doubt very seriously I would pick it up regardless of what text was actually printed on the cards.

Print off the FAQ and have the new card text handy. FAQs are always good for answering new player questions anyway.

1 minute ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Print off the FAQ and have the new card text handy. FAQs are always good for answering new player questions anyway.

I always have the most up to date version on my smart phone and consult it frequently.

Still, that does not change the fact that what is written in front of me is wrong because its was changed at some point.

True but this is hardly the first example of that being true! It's also hardly the first game where it's the case.

You'll still spend longer explaining you can't take the same action twice, or stress stops free actions as well as actions or that FCS only works after the second TLT shot or why ISYTDS goes through shields than you will 'turned out this Upgrade was too good so it works slightly differently now'.

Quote

Still, that does not change the fact that what is written in front of me is wrong because its was changed at some point.

Stickers?

7 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

True but this is hardly the first example of that being true! It's also hardly the first game where it's the case.

For sure, but then again, can you name a game that did the same and didn't eventually stagnate?

4 minutes ago, tsondaboy said:

For sure, but then again, can you name a game that did the same and didn't eventually stagnate?

Mage Wars did change cards early on and is still going strong.

Start with an X-wing and a couple of TIE fighters. Add a B-wing, A-wing and Y-wing for Rebels, and a TIE Advanced, TIE Bomber and TIE Interceptor for Imperial.

None of these ships or their standard upgrades have been significantly affected by FAQs, and they are perfectly sufficient to teach the fundamentals of the game - maneuver, attack, defence and basic actions. As a bonus you can also demonstrate a few extras like low-level EPTs and pilot abilities, secondary weapons, turrets, ion, and bombs with such a squad.

Once players have got into the game and start acquiring their own ships, make them aware of the FAQ. They will very quickly get used to it, especially if they use online squad builders to check out potential pilots and upgrade cards for their next purchase. The cards that have seen the biggest changes are the top-level competitive options - anyone wanting to jump straight in at this level will have more to worry about than just the FAQ.

13 minutes ago, tsondaboy said:

For sure, but then again, can you name a game that did the same and didn't eventually stagnate?

Magic The Gathering?

Certainly by now FFG realizes that many players would appreciate an easy way to get corrected cards, since there's a good handful of them.

They have several options for getting those cards to us, but these things take a bit of time to put together, and I'm sure they'll want to see how their new rulings work out before they fully commit to them.

In the meantime, there are a couple of decent workarounds. It's an inconvenience, but one solution is as easy as printing a few pages and cutting them with scissors. No one actually cares about the cards you use in tournaments as long as you have the originals. You can use your corrected custom alt-art cards without anyone saying a word beyond "cool card."

Why would you hand a brand new player a list with Palpatine, Zuckuss, Manaroo and/or an X-7 Defender?

I get the point you're trying to make, but come on now.

I don't think any of these cards are things you want to start a newbie off with.

It depends on the newbie. I have a coworker who fanatically plays MtG and runs a local league and all. He wants to play All The Lists, of course. His current favorite is Kanan/Biggs, which is neither trivial to fly nor trivial to understand.

The next time we play, he wants to run a TIE Phantom.

5 minutes ago, haslo said:

It depends on the newbie. I have a coworker who fanatically plays MtG and runs a local league and all. He wants to play All The Lists, of course. His current favorite is Kanan/Biggs, which is neither trivial to fly nor trivial to understand.

The next time we play, he wants to run a TIE Phantom.

That would be a rather rare case, though. In my experience, when you teach somebody the game, you start it off with either blank ships or minimal upgrade cards. Anything more than that is a bit overwhelming at first and threatening to turn off people who are totally new to X-Wing.

Same way you always did. Start with 2 TIEs versus and x-wing, no rocks, no actions, to get them used to the movement and shooting aspects, then add rocks and actions, then go up to 'build a 100 point list from the available pilots, no upgrades', then 'build a 100 point list of your choice' then they're hooked and their wallet starts weeping in a corner and you can get them used to the idea that a living game that's been out and maintained for 4 years might have fixes and errata.

26 minutes ago, haslo said:

It depends on the newbie. I have a coworker who fanatically plays MtG and runs a local league and all. He wants to play All The Lists, of course. His current favorite is Kanan/Biggs, which is neither trivial to fly nor trivial to understand.

The next time we play, he wants to run a TIE Phantom.

My friend is v similar actually! He's come from Magic and locked onto Kanan Biggs. i think the synergies and defensive nature appeals to the Magic mind.

We're looking at a game that turns five years old this September. Anybody joining an expandable game five years into its lifespan is going to have a steep learning curve, even if not a single errata was ever published. New mechanics, new concepts, new factions, new ships ... It's a constant evolution.

There are only 20 upgrade cards that have been changed. 13 of them are minor alterations to make the card work properly, like lone wolf ships being within range 1 of themselves. Then there are 2 ship cards that have been changed, Manaroo and Wampa. Not seeing the big deal.

You'll figure it out I'm sure

Errata sucks. Nobody likes to keep track of these things. It's terrible. But, an unbalanced game is much, much worse. Errata will eventually grow up and choke the life out of a game. If the designers are careful and avoid too many more Jumpamaster or X7 level misfires, that death will be slow and might take decades. An off-balance and stale meta can kill a game in less than a year. I was seriously considering an exit strategy from X-wing a month ago. It still ain't perfect but I am looking forward to buying a C-Roc now. Errata sucks but sometimes its the best option.

Teaching a new player? Generics with a variety of pilot skills to teach the basics. I actually like Rebel vs Scum because ship parity is much easier that way. But feel free to throw some Ties on the table if you've got an Empire fan.

I like something like this:

Rookie Pilot (21)
R2 Astromech (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Rookie Pilot (21)
R2 Astromech (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Dagger Squadron Pilot (24)
Proton Torpedoes (4)
Guidance Chips (0)

Dagger Squadron Pilot (24)
Proton Torpedoes (4)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Against this:

Black Sun Ace (23)
Glitterstim (2)

Black Sun Ace (23)
Glitterstim (2)

Concord Dawn Veteran (22)
Push the Limit (3)

Concord Dawn Veteran (22)
Push the Limit (3)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Play it one time with no upgrades and second game with upgrade cards.

How are you supposed to teach someone how to play this game?

Baby steps.

I taught someone this game last week. Here's how it went.

Me: Ok, which do you prefer? X-Wings or TIE Fighters?

Him: X-Wings

Me: Ok, I'm going to set you up with Luke Skywalker. He's worth 28 points. I'll take these two TIE Fighters worth 14 each. That way we're about even.

I then did a basic setup with a couple of asteroids. We went through the basics of movement and shooting. We went over the fact that Pilot Skill determines who goes in which order. I "accidentally" flew one of my TIEs onto an asteroid to show what happens. I "accidentally" flew into his primary arc to make sure he got to kill at least one TIE. We went over all the basic rules. It didn't matter who won.

Afterwards...

Me: Did you like it? Do you want to learn more?

Him: Yeah, it was cool. What's next?

Me: Well, we played 28 points. A 'normal game' is 100 points. That means you'll usually have about 3-4 ships... 2-3 if one of them is a big ship. Also, you know how Luke had that special ability that let you flip a focus icon to an evade on one of your dice while defending?

Him: Yeah...

Me: You can spend points on other upgrade abilities like that. The little icons on the bottom of the card tell you what sort of upgrade cards you can buy. It's different for every ship.

Him: Cool. What do I need to get started?

Me: One of these two core sets. The red logo has Luke and the older ships. The blue logo has Poe and the newer ships. It's up to you. Build from there. FFG's site has a couple of good articles called X-Wing 101 that I'd recommend you check out.

End result? He read the article and bought a Heroes of the Resistance, K-Wing and one of the starters. He'll learn the ins and outs as he progresses.

You pretty much NEVER want to start someone out with a full blown, competitive setup. That's a great way to turn away anyone who isn't at 11 on the competitive dial at all times.

I think this OP is a bit of a troll, but has a point...kind of. Let's not over think this. I mean, if he's a new player, simply forget the FAQs altogether. The game mechanics are pretty much self-explanatory and in your face; the reference cards are great to let him have on his side of the board with his ship cards and mods. And, when the other small inquiries that aren't so clear come up with the typical "what goes first and when" is up to you to teach as you play. As you enjoy a beverage and a few chips, you know. Just let him pick up the ships he wants and simply play; there's no need to get confused over the FAQs. If and when he wants to go to a Store Tourney or whatever, he'll be so into it by then that he will personally delve into the inner sanctums of the X-Wing world --as we all have-- and see these dark and mysterious alterations in their glory...or whatever it is. I always play casual with friends and family without any FAQs and it goes great.

Fly Casual

If honestly think someone can't pick up this game at this point because of a few errata... Then that someone couldn't figure out how to play the game before it was changed.

Anyone getting into pretty much any tabletop game is going to have to be able to remember a ton of stuff to play it effectively, and this is no different. Most every game out there puts out errata over time, without a new edition, and people are simply expected to keep up on it and remember what it is.

40k does it, Infinity does it, Warmahordes does it... MtG does it, and so on.

3 hours ago, haslo said:

It depends on the newbie. I have a coworker who fanatically plays MtG and runs a local league and all. He wants to play All The Lists, of course. His current favorite is Kanan/Biggs, which is neither trivial to fly nor trivial to understand.

The next time we play, he wants to run a TIE Phantom.

You hand that guy a copy of the FAQ and you just made his day.