As the topic says - can someone give me some tips how to deal with Sabine K-Wings?

So far, my success rate with bombing K-Wings has been near 0... I do manage to deal some damage, but I can't keep up with the SLAMing all over the place, dropping mines on my head. I can't even distribute damage, because the bloody Sabine can hit other ships that avoided the token...

Both list and tactics advice is welcome.

The key is basically two-fold:

(1) Approach - Unless you have an alpha-strike list that can erase a K-wing at Range 3, do not be at Range 3 of a K-wing that is facing your direction. You will eat bombs, and you will usually do less damage. You want a K-wing's move to get to Range 2 or Range 1, or you want the K-wing to be facing away from you.

I know this is easier said than done, but it can be done ... and that's what makes X-Wing a skill game.

(2) Concentration of Firepower - Obvious this is a cornerstone of success in the game, generally, but it's especially important with a K-wing, because a K-wing gets less valuable as a target as it empties its bomb-racks. (A ship with normal armament does not lose value -- as a target -- in this way, as it does damage.) This means you look forward some: Can you lay 7 damage on a K-wing, but then not do 2 damage on it in the following turn? If so, then it is often legitimately better to lay 2 damage on a more distant K-wing, which you can then lay 7 damage on in the following turn.

Again, knowing when this applies takes practice. And a good K-wing player who sees you demonstrate knowledge of these tactics is going to try and invalidate what you're doing, of course.

EDIT - Oh, and as an addendum, you can't always be afraid to eat bombs. Expecting a K-wing list to never do anything with bombs isn't a reasonable way to approach the match-up. Sometimes it's better to bait the use of a final Connor Net now, than next turn when you will be perilously close to the board edge.

3 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

(1) Approach - Unless you have an alpha-strike list that can erase a K-wing at Range 3, do not be at Range 3 of a K-wing that is facing your direction. You will eat bombs, and you will usually do less damage. You want a K-wing's move to get to Range 2 or Range 1, or you want the K-wing to be facing away from you.

I get why you don't want the K-Wing facing you, I'm not sure about the range 3 bit. Is that because you don't want to be trading shots with TLT at range 3 or something else?

1). Stress them

2). Use the board edge and obstacles to your advantage. They need to pass over you or on front of you to drop bombs.

3). Hard flanks are good as their range ability is reduced if they need to do a hard 2 as part of their maneuver and or SLAM action.

4). They are a bit vulnerable in corners or when they how to turn around. SLAMMING into a hard 2 to get faced back toward the fight means they are not shooting.

6 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

I get why you don't want the K-Wing facing you, I'm not sure about the range 3 bit. Is that because you don't want to be trading shots with TLT at range 3 or something else?

No, it's because in most cases if the K-wing is at Range 3 and facing you, it can SLAM into prime bomb-dropping position, and there's very little you can do about it. (Non-red K-turns and S-loops help, but it's still ugly.)

What this means for ships that really can't afford to get bombed is that the pilot needs to see abort-lines earlier than usual. Soontir at Range 3 against a conventional list is going to be fine. Soontir at Range 3 of a K-wing list (with a K-wing facing) is likely dead, and the Soontir player should have aborted that line a turn earlier.

(BTW, I wasn't even considering the TLT angle, because dedicated bombing K-wing lists usually don't have them. But for those that do, your point is definitely a good consideration.)

9 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

No, it's because in most cases if the K-wing is at Range 3 and facing you, it can SLAM into prime bomb-dropping position, and there's very little you can do about it. (Non-red K-turns and S-loops help, but it's still ugly.)

What this means for ships that really can't afford to get bombed is that the pilot needs to see abort-lines earlier than usual. Soontir at Range 3 against a conventional list is going to be fine. Soontir at Range 3 of a K-wing list (with a K-wing facing) is likely dead, and the Soontir player should have aborted that line a turn earlier.

You are spot on with your analysis. There is also a small space to the sides of a K-wing that you can be in to make it very difficult for them to bomb you. You have to be just outside range 1 but not to much further than that.

oh and the edge of the board is your friend!! They don't like to slam themselves of the edge for obvious reasons.

4 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

No, it's because in most cases if the K-wing is at Range 3 and facing you, it can SLAM into prime bomb-dropping position, and there's very little you can do about it. (Non-red K-turns and S-loops help, but it's still ugly.)

What this means for ships that really can't afford to get bombed is that the pilot needs to see abort-lines earlier than usual. Soontir at Range 3 against a conventional list is going to be fine. Soontir at Range 3 of a K-wing list (with a K-wing facing) is likely dead, and the Soontir player should have aborted that line a turn earlier.

I haven't played (or played against) K-Wings very much but it seems like if you are at range two of a K-Wing they can dial in a two speed maneuver and then SLAM to have you right where their bomb will land. Am I missing something?

6 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

I haven't played (or played against) K-Wings very much but it seems like if you are at range two of a K-Wing they can dial in a two speed maneuver and then SLAM to have you right where their bomb will land. Am I missing something?

No, you're not really missing anything. The difference is that at Range 2 (on initial engagement) you're more likely to do enough damage to cripple or kill a K-wing. It isn't that Range 2 (or Range 1, except sometimes in "maneuver blindspots") isn't not-so-good for you ... it's just that it's significantly worse for the K-wing than Range 3.

But, that said, as range closes, the workable "maneuver + SLAM + bomb" options do tend to get slightly fewer, depending on the facing of the K-wing.

Also good is to have a large base ship to block SLAMing and therefore protect your aces

My favorite way of dealing with them as of late has been TIE/SF's. The auxiliary arc is an excellent tool for dealing with their movement shenanigans while keeping your flight patterns erratic enough that they find difficulty bombing you. (2 dice out the back still stings against agility 1).

As a moderately successful K-wing (won some small local stuff, nothing premier) player I will concur that SFs are bad news. Also, any true Jouster is scary because of the damage they can lay down on the approach. A lot of aces take just as long to turn around as a Kwing, but true Jousters that aren't afraid of the K turn can also help. Aces just need to do a lot of range manipulation. It's actually similar to what I had to do against 2 Triple scouts lists last year with my Imperial Pocket aces list during regional. I won by avoiding range three at all costs. Rule of 11 and rule of 16 can be a lifesaver. Remember, the K-wing 2 dice turret is worthless against most imperial aces. I will also say that formation flying can be a counter too. I learned the hard way that if you have a few ships in formation, I can't slam behind you or next to you, so I get stuck.

I've found TIE/Ds with tractor beams to be very effective.

You can slow roll thanks to not having the /x7 title, and tractor beam 1-agility K-wings onto rocks all day long. Without actions they're sitting ducks - no SLAM and no bombs!

If you run Palpatine in a Shuttle (or a Doomshuttle, those two aren't too different in powerlevel now) have that tag behind the vulnerable ships in a way that doesn't allow K-Wings to double SLAM behind you. That being said any 2-3 ships list is in an uphill battle. This method of blocking SLAM space gets a lot easier with more ships - you might consider pairing your 30-something point ace with a miniswarm again.

Ion totally shuts them down. Ion cannon, ion pulse missiles, conner nets, whatever. Just put one in your list so you can lock the bomber down for 1 turn. That will let you burn it down before it can do anything.

1 minute ago, spartan1128 said:

Ion totally shuts them down. Ion cannon, ion pulse missiles, conner nets, whatever. Just put one in your list so you can lock the bomber down for 1 turn. That will let you burn it down before it can do anything.

Oh yeah, Ion TIE/ds will make them cry.

Stress or Ion mechanics help to shut them down. As does tractor beaming them onto rocks or debris and knocking the agility down on them!

I've been running K wings for a while (only recently bought my second one lol) and they still catch my opponents out on a regular basis

13 minutes ago, spartan1128 said:

Ion totally shuts them down. Ion cannon, ion pulse missiles, conner nets, whatever. Just put one in your list so you can lock the bomber down for 1 turn. That will let you burn it down before it can do anything.

The trick with this is the approach - especially with miranda, you're likely to be moving before her, and if you get into range AT ALL, she's likely to be bombing you. It's areally tough ship to approach.

I am a K wing bomber lover, and I will admit that tractor beams and ion cannons make me a sad panda!

Everyone gets a like! I love this whole thread. More of these discussions please.

I am seriously tempted to get a third K-wing and fly the list just so I can learn to beat it. Plus the K-wing is just crazy fun to paint. I already have a GI Joe green and Cobra Rattler Blue one. Maybe a Tiger Force color scheme for number three? Why don't we have yellow bases FFG?

Edit: What the What? First double post from computer.

Anyway... Yay for actual useful discussion on these forums. Let's try to make it a habit.

6 hours ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

That being said any 2-3 ships list is in an uphill battle. This method of blocking SLAM space gets a lot easier with more ships - you might consider pairing your 30-something point ace with a miniswarm again.

Yes, I think this is why I don't usually have a problem with them. I don't really play Imperial Aces much and find throwing out blockers as a great tactic. I had a lot of fun with Swarm Leader Vader and some Tie Fighters against a KKU list.

Just fortress in a corner and wait for him to come - if not, wait for final salvo.

Alpha strikes work a treat, I've found. Spike one down fast and wheels start to come off the wagon before the first bomb drops. Lining that up can be easier said than done, of course.

I think the shut down for them is the old anti-regen style. Stress, ion, or both combined denies both the movement and the actions, and lands with decent consistency against 1 and 2 agility ships. I wouldn't mind taking out the old ion B-wings with E2 Tactician that I used to harass the hell out of rebel regen with. Might even survive against Parattani...

Control Cannons. TIE/D in particular'll give them a very hard time. With one agility they're not going to dodge so you can Flechette, Ion or Tractor them around all day. Stressing them with Flechette will limit them to greens if they want to bomb and Tractor can throw them into bad positions and expose them to focus fire from your other ships. Ion leaves them impotently SLAMing at speed 1.

If you don't have built in control, or a rear arc or turret, I've found flanking to be useful. Part of the problem is that if you're approaching nose to nose, you get maybe one good round of fire at the K-wings. If you get one on a flank, it can often get multiple turns in a row firing on the K-wing, which should drop one without too much trouble.