Having had my first taste of the format this weekend, I have to say I really liked it a lot.

For those who aren't familiar, the Hangar Bay format has you build two unique lists. You cannot duplicate any pilots, ship models, or upgrades between the two lists, so using VI in one list will lock you out of it in a second. You reveal both lists to your opponent at the start of setup, designate them as either #1 or #2, and decide which one to play by setting a maneuver dial.

My favorite part of the format is how it helps mitigate some of the Rock-Paper-Scissors issues that comes up during list building. If your opponent brings a list that you would be weak against, you have a backup list that you can turn to instead.

As an example, I ran a Heragator/Ahsoka list alongside a Kylo Oicunn/Quickdraw list. I had planned to use the Hera list as my primary, and was able to do so in my first match. However, my next two opponents had PS9+ in both of their lists, making Ahsoka vulnerable. So instead, I ran my Oicunn list.

I'm thinking that making this a default format might also help alleviate some of the issues involved in a specific list becoming THE LIST. You can have your list that you think will do well against Parattani, and still have a list capable of fighting all the things that are problematic for your first list.

The obvious downside is that it will double the price of list-building for new players entering their first tourney.

Thoughts?

Agreed. I am becoming very frustrated trying to find THE list for Hoth after my last one got shown the Nerfhammer. I have no problems finding lists that counter the meta, but for some odd reason, the lists I make tend to be quite poor against TLT. If I could take a unique list that counters the meta, while having another list that can handle TLT I would be much happier with the competitive scene.

Just now, TitaniumChopstick said:

Agreed. I am becoming very frustrated trying to find THE list for hoth after my last one got shown the Nerfhammer. I have no problems finding lists that counter the meta, but for some odd reason, the lists I make tend to be quite poor against TLT. If I could take a unique list that counters the meta, while having another list that can handle TLT I would be much happier with the competitive scene.

Yes but now after the Nerf we have no idea what the new meta is so how do you counter it?

That being said hanger bay format is still a great idea you can take two completely different list that are built to different strengths. As far as making it the new stranded I come down little against it since two completely different list means more cash invested. Also doint like the two different faction rule, no unique upgrades shared yes but let me fly the same faction, besides why would Imps and Rebels be in the same hanger?

im for it as long as they dont go ridiculous with the limitations.

Ive heard several local places wanting to adapt it and state "no dupe cards or pilots, period" - im sorry but that is dang near impossible to make 2 viable lists without a SINGLE repeat card. No unique dupes im fine with, no dupes period? yeah i'll have a scrap list for my 2nd list then most likely.

Should it be the default? No...

Should it be run more often instead of the default? Yeah, why not.

My thought is the 'default' should match the major high level events, but the requirements for ships and things is pretty demanding... particularly for those early starters.

I think the best answer is "More tournaments should use Hangar Bay."

Would love to see more Hanger Bays in my local scene, too. I also really like enemy Hangar Bay (you chose your opponent's squad from the 2)

9 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

im for it as long as they dont go ridiculous with the limitations.

Ive heard several local places wanting to adapt it and state "no dupe cards or pilots, period" - im sorry but that is dang near impossible to make 2 viable lists without a SINGLE repeat card . No unique dupes im fine with, no dupes period? yeah i'll have a scrap list for my 2nd list then most likely.

The "advantage" of that is that everyone else will have the same problem, which would allow for a much more moderate "top meta."

No duplication of ships or upgrades seems harsh. But multiple lists with no character duplications seems legit. Generic upgrades are meant to be generic, available to everyone with no limitations.

Just now, gamblertuba said:

I think the best answer is "More tournaments should use Hangar Bay."

This. It really is a lot of fun and easy to run. More a small group of friends or a small store tournament, it's spot on. You could also easily do 16, 32, 64 player knockout tournaments with a reasonable number of rounds. In fact, I asked FFGOP on Twitter whether they could make the sign up sheets used at Yavin available as a resource as it would be great to have them on standby.

I don't think it'll replace 100/6 for major tournaments anytime soon, but for small events, why not?

Or everyone would just do what i said next. Have one viable list, and one "heres my 2nd list" that they never actually use.

For Imps i find it insanely hard to not include Mk2 somewhere, as a LOT of the ships i use get benefits from it.
For Rebs, anything Awing/Xwing related since i rarely have a list without one of those.
Scum are probably the closest i could make 2 viable lists w/o any dupes, but theyre not as viable to begin with in order to do so.

How many people really participate in competitive tournaments without making a substantial initial investment?

Realistically, X-Wing isn't that pricey for the savvy E-Bayer anyway, as most upgrade cards can be bought for a few dollars here or there. None of these types of games are "cheap", but it you properly target the stuff you want, it's not going to get out of control.

No duplicate ships is kinda silly though. No duplicate unique pilots is one thing. Not being able to use two Academy Pilots would not be a reasonable limitation for Imperial players, for example.

Multi-list formats are always better, IMO. They help diversify list archetypes and let more ships see play. I absolutely agree the only restrictions between the lists though should be Unique cards. There's no reason at all that an Academy Pilot in one list should prevent TIE fighters in general in another.

16 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

im for it as long as they dont go ridiculous with the limitations.

Ive heard several local places wanting to adapt it and state "no dupe cards or pilots, period" - im sorry but that is dang near impossible to make 2 viable lists without a SINGLE repeat card. No unique dupes im fine with, no dupes period? yeah i'll have a scrap list for my 2nd list then most likely.

No duplicates with in the same list or no duplicates between lists?

I found that as long as you are using squads from different factions, it's easy to stay away from duplicates between them.

No duplicates in the same squad is silly.

1 minute ago, LunarSol said:

Multi-list formats are always better, IMO. They help diversify list archetypes and let more ships see play. I absolutely agree the only restrictions between the lists though should be Unique cards. There's no reason at all that an Academy Pilot in one list should prevent TIE fighters in general in another.

I think it's fine to place that limit on the lists. I wouldn't want to see people just make two Academy Pilot swarm lists with just a single upgrade or two switched between them. However, I'd be fine if they went with a Tie swarm and then a Headhunter or Interceptor swarm.

1 minute ago, WWHSD said:

No duplicates with in the same list or no duplicates between lists?

I found that as long as you are using squads from different factions, it's easy to stay away from duplicates between them.

No duplicates in the same squad is silly.

Just between the two lists.

Just now, Kubernes said:

I think it's fine to place that limit on the lists. I wouldn't want to see people just make two Academy Pilot swarm lists with just a single upgrade or two switched between them. However, I'd be fine if they went with a Tie swarm and then a Headhunter or Interceptor swarm.

If they have 2 TIE swarms they're functionally bringing one list (and one of them is short Howlrunner). There's literally no competitive advantage to doing this. It's entirely to your benefit to take lists that ask very different questions. Restricting ships entirely just prevents a TIE swarm from letting say, Wampa fill in in a Palp/aces list or something.

11 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

No duplicates with in the same list or no duplicates between lists?

I found that as long as you are using squads from different factions, it's easy to stay away from duplicates between them.

No duplicates in the same squad is silly.

Dupes between the lists. As in if any ship in one list has something as simple as PTL or VI, the other cant have it. And depending on what store is talking, the lists have to be the same faction, ive heard both ways getting tossed around.

I have no issues with no dupe uniques. In fact it makes sense to do that. But why the hell would they want to limit nonunique cards?

I really like the idea of "bring two lists to show your opponent while she does the same; the determine which you'll actually play and reveal at the same time."

I am NOT for adding restrictions on those lists if this is supposed to be the most common format as that greatly increases the cost and workload of preparing for such a tournament. If someone wants to bring two lists that have 75% or more in common with each other that should be fine. It's just their lose when they run into an opponent who has the counter to the base list to choose from. Of course there are times you could have two lists share 75%+ of the same components yet those pieces you switch out could greatly change how a squadron will work.

34 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

No duplicates with in the same list or no duplicates between lists?

I found that as long as you are using squads from different factions, it's easy to stay away from duplicates between them.

No duplicates in the same squad is silly.

Just between lists. Otherwise, it kills Mindlink, Aggressors, and swarms.

21 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Dupes between the lists. As in if any ship in one list has something as simple as PTL or VI, the other cant have it. And depending on what store is talking, the lists have to be the same faction, ive heard both ways getting tossed around.

I have no issues with no dupe uniques. In fact it makes sense to do that. But why the hell would they want to limit nonunique cards?

It promotes more variety in the lists. You really have to think about where you're going to put standard things like VI, PTL, Autothrusters, and Engine Upgrade.

No.

Fun as a sideevent, not something I would like as the maincourse

27 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

It promotes more variety in the lists. You really have to think about where you're going to put standard things like VI, PTL, Autothrusters, and Engine Upgrade.

Not really. The format itself promotes variety because its to your advantage to not throw double rock against an opponent who brought scissors/paper. Trying to rigidly enforce it ends up randomly crushing variety in weird ways. A-Wings don't see play because the Autothrusters got used on a T-70 somewhere and stuff like that. A unique ban is more than enough to ensure the two lists aren't identical. Top tier competitive lists without at least one unique card have never really been a thing in the history of the game.

37 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

It promotes more variety in the lists. You really have to think about where you're going to put standard things like VI, PTL, Autothrusters, and Engine Upgrade.

No, you just put them on the list you really meant to fly and build some 100-point junk squadron that you never choose to use. So it might as well not even be a hangar bay tournament at all.

I would rather see another variant to the current hanger bay format.

Each person brings 200pts worth of ships and upgrades to the event. Each round the players view each other's pool. They then secretly build a 100pt squad.

6 minutes ago, DailyRich said:

No, you just put them on the list you really meant to fly and build some 100-point junk squadron that you never choose to use. So it might as well not even be a hangar bay tournament at all.

I think you're giving yourself a handicap if that's the way you approach it. Hangar Bay seems like a great answer to the "I really want to play this squad but X is its Kryptonite" problem that a lot of people seem to have. You bring that squad and a second squad that's solid overall but it is good against the first list's weakness. If Kryptonite isn't on the menu, you choose your first list. Otherwise you pick the second.

10 minutes ago, arkhamssaber said:

I would rather see another variant to the current hanger bay format.

Each person brings 200pts worth of ships and upgrades to the event. Each round the players view each other's pool. They then secretly build a 100pt squad.

Formats like this are cool, but X-Wing's point system doesn't work with it very well. The points are a little overly granular for things to fit together in unique and interesting ways. When you've got ships that regularly cross the 34 point mark, its really not fun to try and swap things out on the fly. I'd be super on board with this if the game had a different points structure though.