i propose, for one, that we have just one flotilla per list. lets face it, flotillas are awesome, including two-three flotillas in a list, but you need to tailor the list to make it work (i.e. massed bombers, "naked" flotilas to grant activations to bigger ships etc). two-three flotillas with 15 points of upgrades each and no bombers for them to push isnt really sane. I assume that the "spirit" of this is to see the underused cards and not just build insanely gimpy lists, otherwise we'd have no rules?...

4 hours ago, pt106 said:

Well... Just to show how bad things can be (and this is not a worst possible list by any margin)

You see it, do you know it?

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 391/400

Commander: Grand Moff Tarkin

Assault Objective: Custom Objective
Defense Objective: Custom Objective
Navigation Objective: Custom Objective

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Commandant Aresko ( 7 points)
- Rapid Launch Bays ( 6 points)
- Bomber Command Center ( 8 points)
= 44 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Wulff Yularen ( 7 points)
- Rapid Launch Bays ( 6 points)
- Bomber Command Center ( 8 points)
= 44 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Damage Control Officer ( 5 points)
- Rapid Launch Bays ( 6 points)
- Bomber Command Center ( 8 points)
= 42 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Damage Control Officer ( 5 points)
- Rapid Launch Bays ( 6 points)
- Bomber Command Center ( 8 points)
= 42 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Interdictor-class Suppression Refit (90 points)
- Grand Moff Tarkin ( 38 points)
- Admiral Chiraneau ( 10 points)
- Point-Defense Reroute ( 5 points)
- Overload Pulse ( 8 points)
- G7-X Grav Well Projector ( 2 points)
= 153 total ship cost

1 TIE Fighter Squadron ( 8 points)
3 Aggressor Assault Fighters ( 48 points)
1 Gamma Squadron ( 10 points)

I almost feel that players should be forced to play at least one round with their own list just to keep them somewhat honest (as in don't bring a turtle into a horse fight)

If you want to go through with this you have to find a rule to get fleets that have a reasonable way to get anything done and be at least capable of destroying enemy ships. The example fleet is utterly incapable of doing that, if it came up against itself you would end up with an utterly boring match with some squads and maybe a flotilla destroyed.

This will not give the awesome experience we have come to expect from Armada games and possibly leave a stale taste in players' mouths...

Unfortunately I have no idea how to improve the concept, which I find very interesting and appealing.

2 hours ago, Maturin said:

I was initially thinking as Skycake did, for some reason - now that I think about it more, I think the original version maybe open to abuse too much, as others have pointed out.

What if each player submits a list, and both lists and opponents are randomized each round. Both the player's victories and the lists's victories are counted equally in the end.

wait, hmmm...while fun that doesn't encourage "bad" lists and underused upgrades. Hmmm...back to the drawing board?

I actually think you may have hit upon something there! If you scored points from both your own game, and the game your fleet plays it incentivizes you to build a good fleet. However, not so good that it beats you out in the end.

I still like the idea of a pool of little/less used upgrades. Maybe 10 or so, and each fleet needs to use at least 4-5 of them (including duplicates).

Sign me up!

Reporting for duty!

Pick me! Pick me!

Well, heck, Why Not! I'm in! most of my lists qualify anyway....lol.

Can we make packages of 50pts which must be used to build optimal fleets. Fleets are randomnly drawn for each player and used throughout the tournament?

Example - 3x Cluster bombs, 2x Tractor beams, 3x Vet Cap = 36pts. Fleet can only use expensive variant.

Is this a hinderence only, or can you make it work?

5 hours ago, JJs Juggernaut said:

Well you choose the objectives the fleet your opponent gives you, but the first player still chooses the objective you play. So sure you have me slaved turrets, but I won't pick AG as my red then.

Right, ST/AG was an example. You build it with comparably bad performance on one of each of the colors, give it zero bid, and then take those three objectives as the opponent and bid for second.

Like say give it 5 YVs and 3 ST VSDs and take AG, CtV, and SP, for example.

5 hours ago, JJs Juggernaut said:

Ahh I see now. It could be a little exploitable, though you are still at the mercy of the list you are given, which may not go well with those objectives, as well as giving up first. I do see the issue though. I think I like the idea of all the fleets being randomly given each round instead of giving your opponent your fleet. It also means you get to play more stuff, as opposed to facing the same list 3 times.

I think if you creat the random factor of you potentially playing your own list will negate the most absurd combos. You want to create a crappy list but viable enough that if you had to use it you could still compete.

I'd say at the beginning of the game you roll a blue die. On a hit you switch lists and on a acc or crit you use your own list. After the roll you then choose objectives and proceed with initiative as normal.

I think the most important factor that everyone needs to remember is this isnt worlds... THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN.

If all you can think about is winning then maybe this isnt the tournie for you.

7 minutes ago, PartyPotato said:

I think the most important factor that everyone needs to remember is this isnt worlds... THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN.

If all you can think about is winning then maybe this isnt the tournie for you.

True. A change of face would actually be good.

But how are - for example - those Ackbar combat retrofits any fun?

That's what I'm wondering.

But maybe I just lack imagination.

8 minutes ago, PartyPotato said:

... THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN.

Get out of here

Got some sort of interest. I definitely need to tweak the rules but for the record - Damage Control Officers on a non-contain ship definitely doesn't pass the sniff test. 8 fighters worth of Rapid Launch Bays and only 5 fighters also doesn't pass. Aresko also doesn't pass on a Gozanti with Tarkin, though you could argue Wulff.

The more I look at it, 4 flotillas is pretty ridiculous. Better make that 2 total.

Fleet can only have heavy squadrons.

1 hour ago, Ginkapo said:

Can we make packages of 50pts which must be used to build optimal fleets. Fleets are randomnly drawn for each player and used throughout the tournament?

Example - 3x Cluster bombs, 2x Tractor beams, 3x Vet Cap = 36pts. Fleet can only use expensive variant.

Is this a hinderence only, or can you make it work?

That's an interesting suggestion. If we go further with it - what if a player can give the opponent lets say two ships and four upgrades that have to be in the list and one ship and two upgrades/titles that aren't allowed? This way new fleets are build every round, so we'll see more different mediocre fleets and underused concepts.

How about this: You play with your own list for the first round - after all, the sons didn't know they were in this kind of race initially. Then you get to hand off your monstrosity to your opponents for 2 more rounds.

That should keep the worst abuses to a minimum.

I'm going to make a great list. It will be the best. It will be top notch. If anybody loses with it, it will be because they are total losers.

25 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

I'm going to make a great list. It will be the best. It will be top notch. If anybody loses with it, it will be because they are total losers.

It will be hugely tremendous! Big League! I'm going to make Amrada great again... just dont ask for details.

How is this?

Too good? Or just potentially very fun to play with and against? I made it with the "play it once yourself, then hand it over" rule in mind.

(I didn't take either Most Wanted or Sup Positions - that would just be lame in this context)

------

GK's Make Tarkin Great Again (Sultan's Sons Tournament)
Author: Green Knight

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 400/400

Commander: Grand Moff Tarkin

Assault Objective: Opening Salvo
Defense Objective: Fighter Ambush
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] Gozanti-class Assault Carriers (28 points)
- Grand Moff Tarkin ( 38 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 77 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Assault Carriers (28 points)
- Vector ( 2 points)
- Admiral Chiraneau ( 10 points)
- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)
- Jamming Field ( 2 points)
= 47 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Assault Carriers (28 points)
- Wulff Yularen ( 7 points)
- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)
= 40 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Assault Carriers (28 points)
- Bomber Command Center ( 8 points)
= 36 total ship cost

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
- Centicore ( 3 points)
- Captain Needa ( 2 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 66 total ship cost

1 Colonel Jendon ( 20 points)
1 Lamda-class Shuttle ( 15 points)
1 Darth Vader ( 21 points)
1 Tempest Squadron ( 13 points)
1 Major Rhymer ( 16 points)
1 Captain Jonus ( 16 points)
1 Maarek Steele ( 21 points)
1 Saber Squadron ( 12 points)

Card view link

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

Green Knight's lists are terrible. He's Sad (OR SICK!), bad like new Armadagate. My fleet will be the greatest fleet, the best fleet ever, gold plated, making everybody win again --even the haters and losers!

2 Flotillas MAX

3 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

2 Flotillas MAX

2 medium transports, 4 flotillas, wasn't that what it said?

I'm in.

I'll do anything to get a Vassal game or two in before I go back to work.