41 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

I agree on the slicing. Remember all those times we saw slicers disabling ships in combat? Me neither.

I remember vaguely doing it myself in X-Wing. A quick google search shows me the jamming beam. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jamming_beam

Jamming, ECM and ECCM was always a discussed in the nineties, a big deal and source of weapons not firing as much nor as long range as they could to when left alone, explaining the low weapon ranges of fighters and other ships as well.

I agree as well on the Slice Enemy Systems and do not allow it. I frequently have to remind my players (especially my younger players) that this setting is based on future perspectives from the late 70's and early 80's. I die a little inside every time one of them says "But we can do that in the real world now."

Wireless slicer in the early 80's

3 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

I remember vaguely doing it myself in X-Wing. A quick google search shows me the jamming beam. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jamming_beam

Jamming, ECM and ECCM was always a discussed in the nineties, a big deal and source of weapons not firing as much nor as long range as they could to when left alone, explaining the low weapon ranges of fighters and other ships as well.

So, this is the Yuuzhan Vong of weapons technology then. Good riddance, I say!

9 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

I remember vaguely doing it myself in X-Wing. A quick google search shows me the jamming beam. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jamming_beam

Jamming, ECM and ECCM was always a discussed in the nineties, a big deal and source of weapons not firing as much nor as long range as they could to when left alone, explaining the low weapon ranges of fighters and other ships as well.

So, this is the Yuuzhan Vong of weapons technology then. Good riddance, I say!

6 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Wireless slicer in the early 80's

I don't remember his slicing anything, just using a built-in CommLink.

20 hours ago, Alekzanter said:

Having totally reworked the vehicle combat rules (up to Sil 4), I decided auto-fire weapons put out such an intense volley that when 2 Advantage are spent to trigger it, it will reduce the target's Defense -1 until the end of the following round (or until fortified). Seems a balanced assessment, considering auto-blasters have such low damage potential. It has tested okay, my players using auto-blasters to weaken shields prior to hitting their targets with a linked weapon.

Which totally negates the “Debilitating Shot” talent in Ace:Gunner. Ace:Gunner is weak enough as it is, it doesn’t need to be made more useless by house rules.

8 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

Wireless slicer in the early 80's

He was connecting wirelessly to his own systems in Cloud City, the ones that he had helped build and maintain. And he did it with his own proprietary wireless algorithms that he had developed.

I guess you could try to jam him if you knew what the frequencies were, or you could try to reverse-engineer the protocols, if you were smart enough.

But I don’t recall him ever using any of those wireless capabilities to slice anyone else.

I don't mind the other Actions that can be taken in ship combat, regardless of whether they were on screen. Gives everyone more to do in ship fights, which is why I'd imagine they included Slicing the Enemy in the rules.

I do think missiles are too good and need to be toned down. The other weapon effects are fine as is imo.

1 hour ago, bradknowles said:

Ace:Gunner is weak enough as it is, it doesn’t need to be made more useless by house rules.

What? Gunner is really shines when your Ace is outside of vehicles while also being fairly good inside of vehicles. Ranged (Heavy) is always useful for upgrading your personal firepower options, while Discipline and Resilience are good for hardening the character. True Aim and Enduring are great talents, Durable is fairly nice, and you have Jury Rigged to take Auto-fire to the next level.

One thing you guys need to remember is each hit from a linked weapon gets reduced by armor separately.

8 hours ago, 2P51 said:

I don't mind the other Actions that can be taken in ship combat, regardless of whether they were on screen. Gives everyone more to do in ship fights, which is why I'd imagine they included Slicing the Enemy in the rules.

I do think missiles are too good and need to be toned down. The other weapon effects are fine as is imo.

In fact that is what the Devs have said. They wanted to make sure non pilots and non gunners had something to do in space combat. As being relegated to sitting around while the pilot and the gunners duke it out with a tie sucks.

3 hours ago, Daeglan said:

In fact that is what the Devs have said. They wanted to make sure non pilots and non gunners had something to do in space combat. As being relegated to sitting around while the pilot and the gunners duke it out with a tie sucks.

You mean like Leia and the droid duo were in the escape from the Death Star? Even Chewbacca was only taking a single Fly/Drive each turn like he was in a Sil 5+ ship.

22 hours ago, Grimmerling said:

So, this is the Yuuzhan Vong of weapons technology then. Good riddance, I say!

I don't remember his slicing anything, just using a built-in CommLink.

Have you seen the latest rebels episode? ;-)

1 minute ago, SEApocalypse said:

Have you seen the latest rebels episode? ;-)

Not the one from the early 80s, no.

In fact, I haven't; my children are still too young. Anyhow: Rebels is pinch-of-salt-canon to me, at best; too much silly infantile stuff happening there, to my taste at least.

17 hours ago, bradknowles said:

Which totally negates the “Debilitating Shot” talent in Ace:Gunner. Ace:Gunner is weak enough as it is, it doesn’t need to be made more useless by house rules.

That may be, if you use anything from AoR, but we don't, so...

2 minutes ago, Alekzanter said:

That may be, if you use anything from AoR, but we don't, so...

It's in EoE in the BH tree as well now with Operator.

11 hours ago, 2P51 said:

It's in EoE in the BH tree as well now with Operator.

Unfortunately, Operator is even more lame than Ace:Gunner.

I looked at it closely, to see how well it might stack on top of Ace:Gunner, and I just didn’t see enough there to make it worthwhile.

On March 10, 2017 at 6:51 PM, HappyDaze said:

What? Gunner is really shines when your Ace is outside of vehicles while also being fairly good inside of vehicles. Ranged (Heavy) is always useful for upgrading your personal firepower options, while Discipline and Resilience are good for hardening the character. True Aim and Enduring are great talents, Durable is fairly nice, and you have Jury Rigged to take Auto-fire to the next level.

The problem is that the spec is supposed to be the “Ace” of “Gunners”, and therefore probably the second most important role on a ship. And it’s just not that useful in that position.

Sure, it has two ranks of True Aim, but so do at least a couple of other specs — and Sharpshooter can get to those ranks of True Aim much easier/faster. And Sharpshooter also gets the Sharpshooter talent, which Ace:Gunner doesn’t get.

“Overwhelm Defenses” and “Debilitating Shot” are the only other two Gunner-specific talents provided, and neither of them are all that great.

There’s no talent to remove setback, and you don’t get “Lethal Blows” or “Deadly Accuracy”, either.

34 minutes ago, bradknowles said:

The problem is that the spec is supposed to be the “Ace” of “Gunners”, and therefore probably the second most important role on a ship. And it’s just not that useful in that position.

Sure, it has two ranks of True Aim, but so do at least a couple of other specs — and Sharpshooter can get to those ranks of True Aim much easier/faster. And Sharpshooter also gets the Sharpshooter talent, which Ace:Gunner doesn’t get.

“Overwhelm Defenses” and “Debilitating Shot” are the only other two Gunner-specific talents provided, and neither of them are all that great.

There’s no talent to remove setback, and you don’t get “Lethal Blows” or “Deadly Accuracy”, either.

You get Brace to remove Setback from environmental effects. Lethal Blows and Deadly Accuracy are largely useless for vehicular combat, but they are really good for personal scale stuff.

I still think Gunner is pretty attractive. It may not be top end, but it's certainly not Scout.

16 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

You get Brace to remove Setback from environmental effects. Lethal Blows and Deadly Accuracy are largely useless for vehicular combat, but they are really good for personal scale stuff.

I still think Gunner is pretty attractive. It may not be top end, but it's certainly not Scout.

That is my main issue with gunner, it does not get a vehicle weapon version of deadly accuracy, which really stinks, especially as pilots and hotshots get dead to rights and can massively increase their damage. The ace: gunner is more like soldier: gunner, but with the ace career skills, a little bit of an oddball, but it helps the spec really on the ground.

And btw, exhaust port is a rather useful talent.

19 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

You get Brace to remove Setback from environmental effects. Lethal Blows and Deadly Accuracy are largely useless for vehicular combat, but they are really good for personal scale stuff.

I still think Gunner is pretty attractive. It may not be top end, but it's certainly not Scout.

You don’t get much in the way of environmental effects that give setback dice to a gunner onboard a ship. Most of the setback dice you get are either due to Shields on the target, doing called shots, or issues with your systems or your crew. IMO, none of that would qualify as “environmental”. Setbacks due to flying through an Asteroid field, or due to performing high-g maneuvers, those are something that I would consider to be environmental, and could be reduced or eliminated by the “Brace” talent.

And called shots apparently no longer do any damage to the Hull Threshold or System Strain Threshold of the target — they only do Critical Hits, which can be quickly fixed by mechanics.

So far as I can tell, the “Call ‘Em” talent appears only in the “Gunslinger” tree. But it should be equally applicable to all other types of weapons and specs.