So I have been wondering for a while if the force influence power can work on force sensitives.

I always have to refer to Legends, as there's just so much more of it and I haven't seen any new canon stuff except the movies... but in Legends it's very difficult to use any Force Power on any Force User.

It's why the Lightsaber is such a big thing. Someone relatively green in the Force is often seen to shrug off the Force Powers - Bind, Harm/Unleash, Move - of people much more powerful in the Force with minimal effort. Influence is often depicted as having to be used more subtly against Force Users, instead of manipulating their emotions directly, you manipulate their receptiveness to emotions present in reality... nuanced difference, but to answer your question directly; yes, you can.

The way this system seems to represent that is allowing Nemesis to oppose tests with Discipline or other appropriate Skills for the situation.

Yes. Like anyone else they would get a resistance roll, but yes.

Since it's opposed by the opponent's Discipline and force users tend to have pretty high discipline it's generally very hard to use it against them, and the attempt has a high chance for despairs. So, it can be used against them, but the likelihood of success is relatively low. Force users can also have talents like slippery minded that allows them to actively break out of the effects of powers like that.

Influence works by outwitting fools and the weak-minded. Being powerful in the Force does not make you quick witted or resistant to pain, especially if you were/are a slave. Those with weak willpower will easily bend to an Influence 'mind trick', which is resisted by discipline or if you are using the 'force rating into social skills' upgrade, standard skills. Misdirect and some of the Shadow talents show that outwitting other Force Sensitives is not only possible, but relatively easy for those who are not aware of what they are dealing with.

As a rule of thumb, if something does not specifically say that, for example, X ( Force Sensitive ) cannot be effected by Y ( Mind Trick upgrade ), then you can safely assume that it can or that its up to the GM's interpretation.

From the EU books, I understood that force-sensitive had some kind of internal defence barrier, I remember such thing from Thrawn Duology where Leia or Luke are probing imperial envoy and find out that he/she is f-s (I am writing from the memory). As a GM I could think about adding a setback die to the pool for every force die the target has or a target could use his force rating instead of his willpower. This was a case in SWd6 where defence against affect mind was based either on the target´'s Perception or Force Control skill.

Take a look at The Force Awakens.

Kylo Ren probes Rey's mind, who in turn goes right back and probes Kylo's mind. It's very possible to affect the mind of another Force user. It's just stupidly difficult against well trained Force users.

1 hour ago, GroggyGolem said:

Take a look at The Force Awakens.

Kylo Ren probes Rey's mind, who in turn goes right back and probes Kylo's mind. It's very possible to affect the mind of another Force user. It's just stupidly difficult against well trained Force users.

Rey wasn't a well-trained Force user. She was a Mary Sue snowflake.

Again, I would never base anything on what was shown in TFA.

21 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

Rey wasn't a well-trained Force user. She was a Mary Sue snowflake.

Again, I would never base anything on what was shown in TFA.

Well trained wasn't referring to either of those two in that scene.

That's your prerogative as GM for your table. However, if it's in the movies, it's canon, no matter how ridiculous. Back in 1980 we had Luke who as far as anyone knew didn't learn jack crap about the Jedi being able to pull lightsabers to his hand and being able to communicate with Force ghosts which was later ret-conned to be a learned skill.

Anakin in 1999 was so skilled at precognition he could compete in a death race that no human could normally participate in.

It's kind of a common theme that strong Force users are able to use abilities on instinct.

Rey isn't a Mary Sue. she's not an author's self-insert. She also has a bunch of flaws and fails at stuff constantly.

Rey just didn't spend all the XP she had from 20 years on Jaku and the GM allowed her to spend it all during the play session as she went.

Kylo rolled a despair on his check.

It does seem from the movies like Influence and other invasive Force powers tend not to work that well against Force users except in unusual cases.

One possible explanation is that many Force users are trained in Suppress, and whenever they know there are Force-sensitive enemies nearby, they tend to walk around with a Force die committed to Suppress unless they have something better to do with that die.

Yes, Influence does work on force sensitives; just force sensitives often either have a greater investment in willpower and/or discipline and thus are harder to "alter."

Regarding Rey: Honestly, just stop bitching about Rey. She's clearly the clone of Luke Skywalker that was grown from Luke's discarded hand to one day become Palpatines Apprentice due to her supreme mitochondrial counts! But in all seriousness it's fairly evident that from the movie that there are a lot of unexplained factors of her. Kylo Ren knew that she was there, she expressed a longing to return home that seemed wholy irrational and artifacal, as if she had been under mental influence to do so. I feel she might have had those abilties all along, it was only through extensive stimulis from Kylo Ren that she learned to come to grips with her powers again. There is clearly more that hasn't been explained in the same way that Luke didn't have much of his father explained in the first movie.

That and star wars is a movie about people who are literally chosen by the force to become space wizards. The movies tried to explain why people became space wizards but apparently explanation through association is hard for people to understand, which has lead to the very minimalist approach that will be adopted by every movie after the prequel trilogy in my personal opinion.

12 hours ago, GroggyGolem said:

Well trained wasn't referring to either of those two in that scene.

That's your prerogative as GM for your table. However, if it's in the movies, it's canon, no matter how ridiculous. Back in 1980 we had Luke who as far as anyone knew didn't learn jack crap about the Jedi being able to pull lightsabers to his hand and being able to communicate with Force ghosts which was later ret-conned to be a learned skill.

Anakin in 1999 was so skilled at precognition he could compete in a death race that no human could normally participate in.

It's kind of a common theme that strong Force users are able to use abilities on instinct.

This. It kind of irks me that people give Rey crap when Luke is making shots with one-in-a-million odds using the Force and no one bats an eye.

9 minutes ago, Benjan Meruna said:

This. It kind of irks me that people give Rey crap when Luke is making shots with one-in-a-million odds using the Force and no one bats an eye.

She also happens to be in a big ole light side vergence (Ilum). I'm sure that gave her a bit of a boost.

1 minute ago, ghatt said:

She also happens to be in a big ole light side vergence (Ilum). I'm sure that gave her a bit of a boost.

Oh man, the list of handicaps she had in her favor fighting Kylo Ren is immense. It's fair enough, though, given the experience disparity.

Just now, Benjan Meruna said:

Oh man, the list of handicaps she had in her favor fighting Kylo Ren is immense. It's fair enough, though, given the experience disparity.

She needs all the help she can get in that fight. Also helps that Kylo is trying to recruit her, not outright kill her.

23 hours ago, emsquared said:

I always have to refer to Legends, as there's just so much more of it and I haven't seen any new canon stuff except the movies... but in Legends it's very difficult to use any Force Power on any Force User.

It's why the Lightsaber is such a big thing. Someone relatively green in the Force is often seen to shrug off the Force Powers - Bind, Harm/Unleash, Move - of people much more powerful in the Force with minimal effort. Influence is often depicted as having to be used more subtly against Force Users, instead of manipulating their emotions directly, you manipulate their receptiveness to emotions present in reality... nuanced difference, but to answer your question directly; yes, you can.

The way this system seems to represent that is allowing Nemesis to oppose tests with Discipline or other appropriate Skills for the situation.

Seems like powers such as move and bind are dependent on initiative rolls in The Clone Wars and Rebels .

5 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Kylo rolled a despair on his check.

Heck, I'd say he not only got a Despair, but also completely flubbed the check, with maybe a couple of advantage to show for it, revealing the bit about how Rey sees an island in her dreams and her feelings of loneliness.

After that, she started spending the banked XP from her prior doings on the Influence Power (20XP), and then got GM permission to buy the basic Move power and a rank in Lightsaber with XP she'd earned while on Starkiller Base, possibly even flipping a Destiny Point as part of the price of being able to spend her XP in the middle of the adventure. GM Abrams (on top of being generous with XP awards) was very much in favor of "hey, that sounds cool, let's do it!" given all the crap he allowed Han's player to get away with simply because it sounded cool.

3 hours ago, Benjan Meruna said:

Oh man, the list of handicaps she had in her favor fighting Kylo Ren is immense. It's fair enough, though, given the experience disparity.

Yeah, safe to say that Kylo's entering the fight with Rey severely wounded with at least a couple of critical injuries, including a major one from Chewie's bowcaster shot and a second one from Finn's strike at Kylo's upper arm (perhaps an Agonizing Wound result). Wouldn't surprise me if Rey's build had a couple defensive talents as well, such as Dodge or Defensive Stance to help push things in her favor.

3 hours ago, Benjan Meruna said:

This. It kind of irks me that people give Rey crap when Luke is making shots with one-in-a-million odds using the Force and no one bats an eye.

Luke has that one thing. Rey had so so much more. She was great with the Force even though she's supposed to be untrained. She's great in a fight. She can pilot. She's a mechanic. She can effectively use a lightsabre. She's able to resist Kylo Ren's use of the Force. Luke is nothing compared to her by comparison.

1 hour ago, Kael said:

Luke has that one thing. Rey had so so much more. She was great with the Force even though she's supposed to be untrained. She's great in a fight. She can pilot. She's a mechanic. She can effectively use a lightsabre. She's able to resist Kylo Ren's use of the Force. Luke is nothing compared to her by comparison.

Luke could pilot. Luke was good in a fight. Luke was a Mechanic. Luke was learning to use a lightsaber. Rey already proved she knew how to fight melee. So really you are complaining that a girl could do what Luke could do.

2 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Heck, I'd say he not only got a Despair, but also completely flubbed the check, with maybe a couple of advantage to show for it, revealing the bit about how Rey sees an island in her dreams and her feelings of loneliness.

Speaking of that island, was that supposed to be foreshadowing to the end of TFA with Luke on one of Ach-To's islands?

Just now, Daeglan said:

Luke could pilot.

His only real talent to be honest.

Just now, Daeglan said:

Luke was good in a fight.

What fight? He spent most of his time on the Death Star running away from trouble just like his buddy Han and Chewie. In that regard Liea was shown to be more competent in combat situations. And he was nearly taken out by Sand People. Oh and folks at a bar.

Just now, Daeglan said:

Luke was a Mechanic.

He didn't do much mechancing in Ep IV. Like .... almost none.

Just now, Daeglan said:

Luke was learning to use a lightsaber.

Nothing wrong with learning. But it's not like a novice Luke bust out with a lightsabre and is all of a sudden holding his own in a sabre battle. It takes him nearly 3 movies to become good with it compared to Rey who just picked it up and just holds her own against Kylo.

Just now, Daeglan said:

Rey already proved she knew how to fight melee. So really you are complaining that a girl could do what Luke could do.

Not at all, because Luke is shown to actually grow. I honestly don't care about the girl aspect. It's not that Rey is a girl that's the problem. It's that she far outstrips everyone from the start. She's depicted as a great mechanic, fighter, Force user, pilot, etc etc with no depiction of actual growth into those roles. Luke on the other hand doesn't start out that way. He gets attacked by Sand People and needs Obi Wan to save him. He gets into a bar room tussel and again needs Old Ben to save him. He gets on the Death Star and pretty much spends the entire time running away from Stormtroopers. He trains to use a lightsabre but clearly isn't anywhere near ready to use it in combat. His one true moment is at the end when he takes out the Death Star using the Force. Everything Luke gets awesome at comes as a result of his character arc through three movies.

Rey starts out better than Luke, hands down. Which is fine if it were just one or two things. But pretty much everything she does she is amazing at. That creates a boring and bad character. Leia is far far superior character if we are really going to use gender as a marker. She's just as capable as the men. She rescues them as much as they rescue her. She demonstrates great leadership skills. She contributes without being a master at everything from the start.

It's not because Rey is a girl that the character is problematic. It's because they have her great at everything she attempts to do, which is stale in terms of characters. Where's the growth? Where are the weaknesses? Where does she have to go if she can already use the Force as well as Kylo and handle the sabre decently enough? She's already a great pilot so she can't grow there. She's already great mechanic. No growth there.

Rey is nothing like Luke was at the start of his story. If Luke had been anything like Rey I'd wholeheartly call him just as bad as her.