I have a player in my upcoming game who wants to play a scientist or technician who builds drones and then eventually droids and uses them in combat situations. I was considering letting him use agility + computers when directly controlling a drone/droid instead of agility + ranged light/heavy. I can see some opportunities for abuse but this player has never really been a min-maxer and I kind of like the idea. I see it as someone who is good at call of duty is not necessarily good at shooting a gun.

Another way I would handle it is the PC makes a droid and when directly controlling it they can supplant either the droids agility or ranged light with one of the PC's characteristics/skills in combat, but he has to use one of his own. Any thoughts on this or am I just over complicating the situation.

I would like other peoples thoughts on this idea.

Just tell the droid what to do and use its stats. That's what 'Speaks Binary' is for.

2 hours ago, 2P51 said:

Just tell the droid what to do and use its stats. That's what 'Speaks Binary' is for.

Two issues with that. We aren't actually playing in Star Wars. I have adapted the system (fairly easily actually) for an XCOM game. and the initial technology they are going to have does not include sentient droids. Second off droids that would be effective in combat are very very expensive. I know you can make a remote very cheaply, but the PC would probably be better off using a pistol himself at the start than a 1 agi 1 skill rank remote.

If you aren't going to have sentient droids, then Speaks Binary is irrelevant, and crafting droids sound worthwhile when in reality you're just proposing a gun that floats. You have a bigger issue in what are you going to give me for all those Talents and the entire crafting system which are essentially useless now.

I'd just say his gun floats and let him use whatever skill/stat you like.

There will be sentient droids eventually, just not at the start of the game.

Honestly I'd just stick with Agility and Range skill. It may be a high tech gun but at the end of the day it's still information/view coming from a fancy remote gun site sent to a Mark I eyeball, into a Mark I brain, which sends signals to a Mark I finger to press the fire button on the floating gun remote control. What's the difference between that and sitting in a gun turret on a ship? Nothing really.

Roger Roger

If I were to run this, I would probably reduce those checks to control to a minimum. Probably just to maintain controller after the technician has been hit or if the droid has been hit. Rolling to control these things every turn would be a pain in the hole.

Secondly, I would put a cap on how many bots he can bring into combat mission. Infinite bots would make for a boring game for everyone else at the table.

Thirdly, I would rule that regardless of how many bots he has, he still only gets the usual 1 manoeuvre & 1 standard action, only he must choose who uses it; him or his bots. Bots would use their own stat block as well.

eg. Either he can choose to spend his manoeuvre moving his PC or he can move a single bot. He can spend 2 strain for another manoeuvre and do both. Same goes for standard actions; he can shoot or one of his bots can.

Here is the situation. My player is playing a non combat character scientist. If you are familliar with XCOM you probably understand it is a combat centric game, but he is going to play a scientist, and I have lots of plans for making the scientist useful (developing new tech, researching, etc) as well as being plot centric, the first goal is to rig up some sort of communications device so that they can get un-stranded in an alien infested city.

But neither he nor I want him to be useless in combat so we figured he could use drones, and then droids. I was initially considering letting him just use agi + ranged light probably with a setback dice but eventually he would more or less assume control of a droid character and use its skill and ability. I fear it will get convoluted though.

Im just trying to make sure everyone has fun.

He can have a low Agility, just have him buy ranks of weapon skill.

It also might be easier to just have sentient combat droids sooner and sacrifice some of the narrative for the sake of the mechanics.

A droid doesn't need to be just great, the weapon they're using can also be spooled up with attachments.

I have a Diplomat in my group, with Ag 2 and no ranks in Ranged Light. But with Aiming and an Accurate-2 pistol, he does pretty well, certainly well enough to do damage with great regularity. He's never complained about it, and usually has plenty to offer in the give-and-take of Advantages*. With a DP he can still get a Triumph, in fact a couple sessions ago he nailed a shot where the Gunslinger blanked out. Never mind that in running a combat there should be plenty of opportunities for not-directly-related-to-shooting activities to take place.

So I wouldn't over-think it. Get him a decent pistol and be done. If he's good with Computers he could be good in Mechanics, and trick that pistol out.

Besides, I find giving players something that makes them as good as other players in every context is a crutch. Do you give everybody Boots of Stealth so they can all sneak as well as the Ranger?

----------

EDIT: the Advantages are key. Even if he misses, with all those boost dice he's basically generating cover fire, suppressing the enemy, or exposing them to make them easier target for his friends. Be sure not to undersell the narrative axis.

Thats a good point and analogy. I will keep him using ranged light even with a "floating gun."

This player often plays the "not quite a hero" and does a good job of role-playing it, when his characters are put in a combat situation they basically say "Im a school teacher not a soldier...why am I here. and runs away. This is exemplary role-playing without a doubt, but it often leads to the PC saying "why am I with this group they keep getting me shot at" which is frustrating as a GM and a player. So I am looking for something to keep everybody happy.

But I agree I will just leave it with ranged light and agility of the PC and if he is using a drone he can do it with a setback dice or maybe an upgrade...haven't decided yet. And then he can only take one action per turn be it shooting with his drone or running around overloading computer consoles.

Edit:
he PC did this in End of the World: Zombies and World of Darkness, but he really likes the advantage system of FFG star wars and it does add another level to think about even with low skill levels. Great Idea

12 hours ago, greaterbob said:

Two issues with that. We aren't actually playing in Star Wars. I have adapted the system (fairly easily actually) for an XCOM game. and the initial technology they are going to have does not include sentient droids. Second off droids that would be effective in combat are very very expensive. I know you can make a remote very cheaply, but the PC would probably be better off using a pistol himself at the start than a 1 agi 1 skill rank remote.

Mono-Task Chassis, elimination directives, you end nemesis droids with a dice pool of about aaapp + a good amount of boost dices from speaks binary for 600 credits a piece + whatever the weapons cost you give him. Sure, one hit and it breaks and needs repairs, but hitting that little silhouette 0 bugger becomes a problem on its own. And if you are especially funny you give it an soak +3 armor, spend 10 advantages on the chassis for 10 extra WT and upgrade it's soak twice, once from armor plating and once from the cybernetic armor. Tada, soak 8, WT 13, Sil 0 Assassin Droid for 600 credits + some some gear. Needed Advantages for his 16. Doable for some specs, rather hard for others, trivial for anything gambler
And all those not so good rolls are still pretty decent mini-assassins. So if someone ask: "You and what army?" You are prepared for that. ;-)

Anyway, as this all does not really apply to your game. Gunnery. The skill would be gunnery for such a remote controlled gun, you might change the base characteristics for the skill to int and be done with it for your setting.

Some short input from me.
You could give the player a one or a few advantageous dice as he's remote controlling a droid, rather than putting himself in harms way. I'd say there's a big difference between actually beeing in combat (risking your life and getting shot at etc), and remote controlling a droid via a screen.

As for the why he is going to the battlefield; well someone needs to collect the samples from the dead alien's and those heavy handed soldier sorts just don't have the degree of care required for proper recovery!

I wouldn't go out of my way to make a player useful in eveyr situation; his skills are clearly intellect based and frequent knowledge checks that make subsquent identification easier. Droids in this system requires their actions to be given over to the droid that they are piloting; so it isn't as a good as a PC in HP, but serves to have excellent scouting opportunities without exposing PC's. The advantage is being able to have something present in a hostile situation.

In our system our party is a commando team, sso even if they don't have ranks in a skill, most PC's pick up some special gear to compensate for their lack of actual ability.

1 hour ago, LordBritish said:

As for the why he is going to the battlefield; well someone needs to collect the samples from the dead alien's and those heavy handed soldier sorts just don't have the degree of care required for proper recovery!

I wouldn't go out of my way to make a player useful in eveyr situation; his skills are clearly intellect based and frequent knowledge checks that make subsquent identification easier. Droids in this system requires their actions to be given over to the droid that they are piloting; so it isn't as a good as a PC in HP, but serves to have excellent scouting opportunities without exposing PC's. The advantage is being able to have something present in a hostile situation.

In our system our party is a commando team, sso even if they don't have ranks in a skill, most PC's pick up some special gear to compensate for their lack of actual ability.

This reminded me of something. ILl need to book dive but one of the int based specs let you roll a knowledge check and give out boost dice or something like that. That would be an interesting use for the character and allow him to remain a "non-combatant" while still participating in combat.

Sciencist is just what he's looking for. AOR core

19 hours ago, greaterbob said:

Here is the situation. My player is playing a non combat character scientist. If you are familliar with XCOM you probably understand it is a combat centric game, but he is going to play a scientist, and I have lots of plans for making the scientist useful (developing new tech, researching, etc) as well as being plot centric, the first goal is to rig up some sort of communications device so that they can get un-stranded in an alien infested city.

But neither he nor I want him to be useless in combat so we figured he could use drones, and then droids. I was initially considering letting him just use agi + ranged light probably with a setback dice but eventually he would more or less assume control of a droid character and use its skill and ability. I fear it will get convoluted though.

Im just trying to make sure everyone has fun.

I'm confused. The player wants to play a non-combat scientist character but neither of you want him to useless in combat so you give him non-sentient technology that he must essentially use combat skills to utilize?

I say let him be useless in combat until he is able to develop sentient droids that he can control verbally. Until then, if his scientist feels the need to be combat relevant, let him come up with ways to MacGyver things on scene, come up with ways to use his knowledge to manipulate the combat environment by providing boosts to his party and setbacks to the enemies.

I generally take issue with a player that says they want to play a non-combat character and then focus on being combat effective... but that's me.

I agree with this. Also why can't he hack into enemies equipment or weapons to be useful?

As someone who adores XCOM, this sounds like great fun. As someone who tries to make sense of this with the ruleset, I have to agree with @Scambler

That said, it's pretty hard to be 'useless' in combat unless you're Ag 1 Br 1 firing a Bowcaster - with the way advantage work, you can drop minions on a good shot, and even something like a slugthrower pistol does like 5 damage on a hit at the least which can really add up. You are going to hit more often than you miss as a general rule anyways, so a scientist cowering behind cover taking pot-shots is going to rack up plenty of kills with time even if he lags behind his heavy gunner buddy.

Going to the drone question: in XCOM 2 (assuming that is what the setting is based on) the drones players have access to are generally non-combat capable. While they do have the potential to zap baddies (some low-grade ion weapon seems appropriate), it is not a weapons platform like a MEC (a literal robot) or a SHIV (another literal robot, in tank form) If you player wants to make a gun drone, then make THAT their character. When you allow a player to design what amounts to be a second character to control, you really take away something from the rest of the group - why doesn't everyone just make drones? If you can hide behind cover two blocks away while your floating machine guns eviscerate sectoids from above, why bother trying to actually be there to get shot at? It's easier to replace a broken drone than it is to find a capable soldier.

A small ion weapon with a recharge quality, or something akin to a slughthrower pistol with very limited ammunition (how much can you really fit on a drone and have it still fly) doesn't sound unreasonable, especially if it takes an action to fire. You could extend this to being a Computer, Gunnery, or the drone's own skill depending on how you feel it is appropriate. The drone should not be a character's combat option however - the idea is it can supplement a technician, not fill the sixth slot in the Skyranger.

I'm basing it on XCOM: Enemy Within. I've taken all the advice into consideration and am going to let him use a drone if he wants, but he has to directly control it (until he can program something with an AI) with ranged light and agility and a setback dice with him having to be within Medium range (of the drone) and the drone having a range of short to attack, and I will allow him to apply speaks binary to it (though its not quite RAW). Once he can build something with an AI he can direct it to attack for him. Once he is able to build a drone with an AI I will let him use his action to command it to attack (applying speaks binary to its rolls) or he can do other things. Limited to one "combat follower" per mission.

I have played technicians extensively in ffg Star Wars so I will give him plenty of other things to do, but "you can lead a horse to water" ya know.... Our previous GM didnt give that many opportunities for "support" characters to do stuff, so i'm going to have to do a lot of retraining of the group with a lot of aspects of this system (narrative uses of destiny pool and advantages especially).

I haven't suggested this to him but I expect him to at some point after the first session go to best buy and steal the largest drone they have and tear apart a pistol and attach it to it. Ill give him probably limited ammo 2 and maybe let him spend advantage on it to increase that when he builds it... just because something there isn't a door to open/shut or a computer to hack.

@RixxyAGoGo

I know drones aren't really canon in XCOM: Enemy Unkown/Within, but it does fit in with modern military tech so I'm going to allow it.

The system was actually really easy to integrate into an XCOM setting. The force = Psionics, take the vibro off of all the melee weapons at start (reducing damage, and vicious rating) and reduce the damage of basic blaster types by two. No lightsabers allowed (yet anyways), and any lightsaber focused talents can be used with any melee weapon. Restrict armor to some of the more basic ones, and reduce HP to give something to improve on with research and development. The only skill I couldn't really find a use for was Astrogation, so I said "hey don't take astrogation". I think its going to be a ton of fun.

I am using duty from AOR, I am use base building guides from AOR and I gave them 6 options to choose from at the start, and I am starting the campaign off at the point where the aliens openly attack a bunch of cities. I even made an intro video by cutting and moving around parts of cutscenes. I think its going to be a blast.

Again, how much ammunition can you put on a drone and still have it flight-capable? It's going to be tough for something to have a stable platform to fire on when you're on the ground, not to mention how difficult it would be on a fairly light bot in the air. I can carry considerably more 5.56 than you can slot in a belt for a drone. It's fine if you want to have something supplement a character's combat capability, but if it ever gets to the point where it essentially serves as a stand-in for a player (or at least stands on-par with another character's abilities) then you run into very serious danger of your scientist just outshining other characters. There need to be some pretty strict limitations to what you're going to allow because as soon as they decide strapping grenades to a drone and having them bomb the enemy position is a good idea (it's an excellent idea) things can quickly spiral out of your control.

It does seem like the system would make a good stand-in for an XCOM ruleset though. In the past I used All Flesh Must Be Eaten and it worked like a charm.

Best of luck!

7 hours ago, k7e9 said:

Some short input from me.
You could give the player a one or a few advantageous dice as he's remote controlling a droid, rather than putting himself in harms way. I'd say there's a big difference between actually beeing in combat (risking your life and getting shot at etc), and remote controlling a droid via a screen.

I agree with that which is why I was thinking of allowing him to use computers instead of ranged light, but that idea was pretty thoroughly shut down and too power gamey.

Y'know you could've used a MUCH easier system to convert...D6 Space is Free on Drive-through...and has PSi-powers already...just sayin...8D

I considered lots of different systems, including all flesh must be eaten, spycraft, GURPS, and shadowrun, but settled on this because 1. we are familliar with it and the group freaking loves this game and 2. it was such an easy fit, and a lot of other rules sets (*COUGH* SHADOWRUN *COUGH*) are just too...crunchy.