While I agree that FFG is sometimes REALLY bad at play testing and technical writing for their rules, I don't think it's some mass conspiracy. I subscribe more to the 'careless' train of thought on FFG's part, not the Alex Jones 'Follow the money!' train of thought.

4 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

if they didnt have playtesting the jm5k would have had a 3sloop. They originally wanted it to be only a 3speed maneuver, but noticed the unhinged astro would absolutely break that dial even more than it is if its sloops were 3speed.

If this is true, and FFG's design team couldn't even catch this super obvious interaction between the salvaged astro slot and a 3 sloop... Yikes. We should probably be singing the playtester's praises more so than I ever imagined.

2 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

If this is true, and FFG's design team couldn't even catch this super obvious interaction between the salvaged astro slot and a 3 sloop... Yikes. We should probably be singing the playtester's praises more so than I ever imagined.

i forget which interview it was but they mentioned they caught it early on in the testing. I wanna say the interview was in July-August-ish of last year. Whether they simply caught that on paper or someone in the playtest team did it i have no idea, but it was THANKFULLY caught before being released.

In other news....commodities markets soar as tinfoil flies off the shelves while millions of hats are made.

3 hours ago, RayCidivist said:

Maybe you should consider a Star Wars chess set. Each of those pieces have had quite a bit of playtesting.

Whoa! Don't fall for this. Rooks and Knights are completely OP and castling is an easy button win if there's ever been one. It's no coincidence Vader can just move everywhere. Don't let the "Queen" identifier throw you off.

Plus FFG makes extra Vaders for the little known exploit where you can get more Vaders if a Stormtrooper/pawn gets to the back of the map. Multiple Vaders!!! Such pay too win.

1 hour ago, Blue Five said:

You seem to think the word "cute" is a perjorative.

I'm intrigued as to why.

Don't get cute, mister.

As one of the early responders said, you're giving FFG waaaay too much credit. I have played many FFG games for many years, and one thing they've proven beyond a shadow of doubt to me is that they can't playtest worth beans. For a while they even tried to outsource some of their playtesting. It resulted in some much higher quality products in terms of balance. One of the games they did this with was the first expansion to Twilight Imperium. Shattered Empire not only had some excellent content, but it fixed a lot of balance problems with the original game. It was just shy of a masterpiece. The playtesting project was a lot of work for them, though, so FFG gave up on it. The next Twilight Imperium expansion they released was a steaming pile of garbage full of half-baked mechanics, obvious rule loopholes, and untested content... sadly, par for the course with many games.

Fact of the matter is, the developers don't have the time to heavily playtest their stuff. They're under tremendous pressure to make more product and get it out the door as quickly as possible. A lot of the game designers will never be half as good at playing their own game as the fans are. They simply miss things. I would still like to know what they were smoking recently when they came out with R3 Astromech. If I ever meet the developers in person, that's going to be the first thing I ask them.

7 hours ago, LordBlades said:

You give FFG too much credit.

Just look at stuff like Kihraxz, G1-A, U-wing wtc.

Is FFG also designing horrible stuff they don't want to sell on purpose ?

Dunno. They managed to stuff in one or two valuable pieces of cardstock they sell for $15. You even get a free model with it. It's kinda cool. Can score dozens of Starvipers and K-Wings on the cheap on EBay.

3 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

Seriously. We're 10 waves in, and FFG is still trying to figure out the whole, "How can we make T-65s as good as the TIE Fighter?" thing.

Actually, in a way they have. Neither is seen on the tables much anymore :P.

5 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

OMG!! THIS IS SO TRUE. . .I CAN'T BELIEVE I DIDN'T SEE IT UNTIL NOW.

LET'S BUILD A WALL AROUND MINNESOTA AND MAKE FFG PAY FOR IT. HECK, THEY GOT ALL OUR CASH AT THIS POINT!!!!!!

Yes please! If that means we get all the FFG goodies before the people on the other side of the wall, I'm all for it.

Look, a wall won't work. It'll just end up with a tiny exhaust port rendering the whole thing vulnerable.

I mean, did you learn NOTHING from the original trilogy?

8 hours ago, haritos said:

Its so cute how all of you defend so blatantly wrong balance decisions

I always find conspiracy theories 'cute'. The way people assume others are suddenly God-like in their ability to plan and scheme, and the way only a very 'special' few are 'clever' enough to spot it and make fun of those who can't see it...

That's probably enough ''' in one post

Look at pretty much every game with updates in production. Yes, there is some planning to produce the latest 'must buy' product, just look at the power creep in older established games like 40K and the CCGs etc. But no, there isn't an Evil Empire conspiracy.

RoV

5 hours ago, mkevans80 said:

A lot of the game designers will never be half as good at playing their own game as the fans are. They simply miss things.

When you test something you designed, you come with a lot of biases about how it SHOULD work. It's easy to miss stuff due to this.

9 hours ago, haritos said:

Its the same business model used in videogames like LoL. Release new hero. Build the hype. People buy him. Nerf.

I read this in a car with Rioters. I read this sentence out loud to them. They literally loled. Iike: your comment literally elicited laughter from the people you're accusing if cynicism. They're not doing it on purpose, they're screwing up.

The thing that's impressed me most about the FAQ is how uncivil some "casual" players have decided to be about a small group of tournament player's reactions to it. It's like some people feel this is a retributive action against a perceived injustice tournament players have somehow inflicted on casual players. A lot of posters/podcasters who I used to like have shown some intensely ugly personality in the wake of this.

When the reactions of the small group of tournament players are like those of the OP, I'm of the opinion they deserve what they get.

3 hours ago, Rat of Vengence said:

I always find conspiracy theories 'cute'. The way people assume others are suddenly God-like in their ability to plan and scheme, and the way only a very 'special' few are 'clever' enough to spot it and make fun of those who can't see it...

That's probably enough ''' in one post

Look at pretty much every game with updates in production. Yes, there is some planning to produce the latest 'must buy' product, just look at the power creep in older established games like 40K and the CCGs etc. But no, there isn't an Evil Empire conspiracy.

RoV

Again, it's incredibly cute that you actually think that there is some God like ability behind the most simple cash grabbing business model. Or that this is a conspiracy theory.

Is everyone here so naive to think it actually takes brains to think of a plan like that? Would you buy as many uboats if they weren't so strong? Would you EVER buy a raider? You actually find the simplest idea, which is to pack strong cards in new products to sell them, genius? Wow, you are cute.

The OP is right. This is a spectacular cash grab......

..... by way of nerfing some of the overpowered elements of the game to create a more diverse meta and level playing field which will make the tournament circuit more interesting and healthy in the long run, which is good for FFG as well as the player base....

b*stards

Changes are needed for the long term health of the competitive game. No one has taken away your ships or cards and nothing is stopping you using them how you like.

Without making important changes the meta stagnates and people lose interest, but more importantly it can severely limit the scope of future releases. The changes they've made have completely opened up certain changes they can make in the future, reducing the chances of there being monstrous combos found.

I'm just waiting for the nerf that makes the iconic early wave generics competition viable...

This was a good first step though.

4 minutes ago, asters89 said:

The OP is right. This is a spectacular cash grab......

..... by way of nerfing some of the overpowered elements of the game to create a more diverse meta and level playing field which will make the tournament circuit more interesting and healthy in the long run, which is good for FFG as well as the player base....

b*stards

Christ this made me laugh and is completely true.

25 minutes ago, asters89 said:

The OP is right. This is a spectacular cash grab......

..... by way of nerfing some of the overpowered elements of the game to create a more diverse meta and level playing field which will make the tournament circuit more interesting and healthy in the long run, which is good for FFG as well as the player base....

b*stards

Are you understanding what I'm saying? What you said is 100% what I am saying. They grabbed their cash and now they level the playing field.

You are in complete agreement with me, you re just skipping the part of why this happened in the first place.

You think this happened because you literally believe the designers who made this brilliant game are actually too dumb to understand what the tie x7 power level would be. I'm saying they are not.

Nobody questions the follow up to that cash grab: they want a level playing field, and an evolving meta. Nobody said the opposite. You get your diverse meta, they get bucketloads of cash.

10 minutes ago, haritos said:

Are you understanding what I'm saying? What you said is 100% what I am saying. They grabbed their cash and now they level the playing field.

You are in complete agreement with me, you re just skipping the part of why this happened in the first place.

You think this happened because you literally believe the designers who made this brilliant game are actually too dumb to understand what the tie x7 power level would be. I'm saying they are not.

Nobody questions the follow up to that cash grab: they want a level playing field, and an evolving meta. Nobody said the opposite. You get your diverse meta, they get bucketloads of cash.

IF! this were their plan, the only people they're tricking out of money are WAAC players.

However, I'm not sure WAAC players count as people, so, I don't see any ethical dilemma here.

16 hours ago, haritos said:

Playtesting can often miss something, that is something we all understand in designing games.

But are you seriously telling me that FFG, with now years of x wing design experience suddenly fails so spectacularly to hit the mark?

Let's not be naive. They made amazing cards. Everyone ran to buy scum. Now they nerf them and get to keep the cash.

Don't tell me you couldn't see zuckuss issues from a mile away during playtesting. The extent to which some cards were hit just shows how off they were by design.

No, it's not a coincidence.

EDIT: I used zuckuss as one example to reduce the text. But the x wing forum echo chamber as usual was unable to look at the issue from the whole perspective, so let me help you: theres also manaroo, palp and defenders (yikes! that was ESPECIALLY hard to predict! 1 ship + 1 title combo! very complex! Im sure they missed it!)

Never played many games have you? All the heavily played games get revised based on how the end user ultimately uses the game mechanics to their advantage. This is true for physical games and digital games. In the latter case, they get revised a lot. When this happens, people do feel like there is a bit of bait and switch. We must hope the changes are healthy for the game in the long run.