9 hours ago, JohnnyRicoPotatoes said:

I had thought of this list as an 'Imperial Control'

Kath Scarlett (45) - Firespray-31

• A Score To Settle (0)
• "Mangler" Cannon (4)
• Kylo Ren (3) [or Rebel Captive]
• Slave I (0)
• Long-Range Scanners (0)

Omicron Group Pilot (24)

• Darth Vader (3)

Inquisitor (31)

• PTL
• Tie V1
• Autothrusters

You've got a big control ship that threatens with crits and possibly double stresses (great for turning off X7 Defenders or Attani), a ship that acts as a 24-point F-U to aces, and a dedicated ace hunter.

I've made a casual list with Kath and Kylo pilot. It's pretty fun list, but don't think Kath could ever be competitive for the points she costs.

25 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Kind of. I realise Slaughterhouse was not a typical TIE Swarm abd classic swarms were worse, but Slaughterhouse was favourable against Dengaroo. /x7 and the big hitters... not so much.

Which swarm pattern is Slaughterhouse?

6 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Which swarm pattern is Slaughterhouse?

5?

I don't think x7s are gone, but they now do at least have counterplay, and it's very traditional counterplay: Stress, ion, blocking. Anyone noticed that we've seen that kind of tactic being pulled out against high-agility Imperial aces before? Like, oh, I dunno, Soontir?

... Yeah, he was still top dog until the autodamage cards finally overwhelmed him, and the Defender efficiency stole his niche from under him.

Don't count on them going anywhere, but at least more traditional lists have a shot now, right? We'll see whether it lets TIE/D have more prominence, because the fundamental maths haven't changed yet.

The biggest winners, honestly, are probably rebel regen. The alpha strikes are gone; now Palp and Defenders are that much less reliable in keeping the Imperial ships alive. Dengaroo was a tough matchup; it's now dead, and Party Buses now face serious limitations. Meanwhile, they've still got the same tools they always had - and quite a few of them make for **** fine counters to whatever else the meta is throwing your way.

Oh, and Manaroo is way dead. A little baffling they didn't leave her in the HWK bracket of 'friendly ships at range 1-3', but I guess they just wanted her done and gone for good.

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

I don't think swarms are back. They've been dead since Wave 6 long before the Imperial veterans release. If U-boats were still a thing then maybe I could see them coming back. That is the only list I know that can take 6 plasma torps and still be fine.

MOV nerf on large ships still makes it a terrible option. Doom shuttle you could potentially hold up 24 points if you don't vader your last hit but now with a Doom shuttle there is no question that you might as well kill it giving your opponent the full value because they are going to be getting at least half of it. Doom might be better on patrol leader with Vader being the only upgrade.

"I already gave up 12 points, I might as well let em have the other 12 too" is a terrible policy. 12 points can easily mean the difference between winning and losing. You don't just Vader every shot willy nilly. You do it when you expect it to make a difference, and you don't suicide unless you're about to die anyway or you're certain you're getting the better end of the trade.

Also, you don't like giving up 12-24 points on a doom shuttle with Vader, so you're going to ale it a 43 point ship instead and give up more?

2 hours ago, jmswood said:

Has anyone tried OGP with Advanced Sensors and General Hux? It's the same points as Palp Mobile, and actually hands out more dice mod than Palp could.

Not yet, but I have a list built with this very thing. I had been playing it with Fleet Officer (and Inspiring Recruit), which did the job I needed it to, but Hux will be a nice upgrade to that.

24 minutes ago, Reiver said:

I don't think x7s are gone, but they now do at least have counterplay, and it's very traditional counterplay: Stress, ion, blocking. Anyone noticed that we've seen that kind of tactic being pulled out against high-agility Imperial aces before? Like, oh, I dunno, Soontir?

... Yeah, he was still top dog until the autodamage cards finally overwhelmed him, and the Defender efficiency stole his niche from under him.

Don't count on them going anywhere, but at least more traditional lists have a shot now, right? We'll see whether it lets TIE/D have more prominence, because the fundamental maths haven't changed yet.

The biggest winners, honestly, are probably rebel regen. The alpha strikes are gone; now Palp and Defenders are that much less reliable in keeping the Imperial ships alive. Dengaroo was a tough matchup; it's now dead, and Party Buses now face serious limitations. Meanwhile, they've still got the same tools they always had - and quite a few of them make for **** fine counters to whatever else the meta is throwing your way.

Oh, and Manaroo is way dead. A little baffling they didn't leave her in the HWK bracket of 'friendly ships at range 1-3', but I guess they just wanted her done and gone for good.

Soontir compared to defenders for control is a way different situation. Soontir is anps9 at dodger that made it really hard to pin him down in the first place to get off stress/ion/whatever. X7 defenders are going to end up in arc, especially since the most common ones are mid-ps anyway. Way easier to get shots on. And with the x7 changes combined with thenpalp change, easier to hit. They also don't have autothrusters to help save them

The winners in the FAQ are the players! They nerfed just about all the auto win lists besides K-wings(they are coming for you next Sabine) so no matter what is across the table from you you will at least have a chance. Maybe not a good chance but if you outplay your opponent you can win.

The losers from the FAQ are netlisters in the upcoming tournaments. The meta has been blown up so there is nothing to copy that guarantees success against everything.

19 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

"I already gave up 12 points, I might as well let em have the other 12 too" is a terrible policy. 12 points can easily mean the difference between winning and losing. You don't just Vader every shot willy nilly. You do it when you expect it to make a difference, and you don't suicide unless you're about to die anyway or you're certain you're getting the better end of the trade.

Also, you don't like giving up 12-24 points on a doom shuttle with Vader, so you're going to ale it a 43 point ship instead and give up more?

Taking a shuttle doesn't give up 12 points, but self damaging on a large ship does. Without regen Vader <crew> is not very efficient unless there are a bunch of 3 to 4 hitpoint fighters and the standard has seem to be closer to at least 6.

Did anyone ever take a Doomshuttle expecting it to live through the whole game? Serious question.

5 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Taking a shuttle doesn't give up 12 points, but self damaging on a large ship does. Without regen Vader <crew> is not very efficient unless there are a bunch of 3 to 4 hitpoint fighters and the standard has seem to be closer to at least 6.

You don't have to Vader every shot. And it doesn't matter if it diss if it takes more points out with it

5 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Which swarm pattern is Slaughterhouse?

5 elite TIEs - O.Leader, then 4 Craxk Shots (Howl, Zeta Leader, Scourge, Youngster).

http://stayontheleader.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/several-fighters-have-broken-off-from.html

21 hours ago, Tbetts94 said:

I've made a casual list with Kath and Kylo pilot. It's pretty fun list, but don't think Kath could ever be competitive for the points she costs.

I'm just looking for an excuse to run an Imperial firespray...

On 3/7/2017 at 11:12 AM, Wiredin said:

Since the FAQ I've been looking more and more at the generic A-Wings, B-Wings, and Y-Wings to start rolling around the table with.

I'm betting on Kylo becoming the new hotness and I don't want to be stuck flying 2 ship lists or aces and getting Kylo'd to death. I'm thinking 3-4 ship lists are going to see a resurgence, and you may start seeing mini-swarms again. I'm leaning heavily towards:

Blue Squadron Pilot (22)
Fire-Control System (2)
"Mangler" Cannon (4)

Blue Squadron Pilot (22)
Fire-Control System (2)
"Mangler" Cannon (4)

Rebel Operative (16)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Tactician (2)

Rebel Operative (16)
Autoblaster Turret (2)
Tactician (2)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Calling it now: Paul Heaver wins worlds with 4 ships rebels.

I think for a long while the trend of list building has been leaning towards fewer, elite ships rather than more generics. This is due to many factors, like anticipating competition, but also enjoyment to fly. People tend to enjoy flying decked out ships with tons of cool abilities. I remember a time when a 4 ship list was seen as 'standard', and it seemed really risky to only take 2 or 3. Phantoms and super turrets pushed the traditional TIE swarm out of the top tier, but I think in the current state of the meta there is nothing holding them back other than player desire and skill. It is completely possible to kill the Mirandas, Reys, Ventress' and the other popular ships with a swarm. Yes, Rey can pop a Tie in one shot, but she will also lose out in the joust because she only has one evade die. If she doesn't joust, she will be wasting her ability and both of her crew. That is just one example, but I definitely think a resurgence of 4-5+ ship lists is in the works. Two words: Swarm Leader.

3 minutes ago, Gersun said:

I think for a long while the trend of list building has been leaning towards fewer, elite ships rather than more generics. This is due to many factors, like anticipating competition, but also enjoyment to fly. People tend to enjoy flying decked out ships with tons of cool abilities. I remember a time when a 4 ship list was seen as 'standard', and it seemed really risky to only take 2 or 3. Phantoms and super turrets pushed the traditional TIE swarm out of the top tier, but I think in the current state of the meta there is nothing holding them back other than player desire and skill. It is completely possible to kill the Mirandas, Reys, Ventress' and the other popular ships with a swarm. Yes, Rey can pop a Tie in one shot, but she will also lose out in the joust because she only has one evade die. If she doesn't joust, she will be wasting her ability and both of her crew. That is just one example, but I definitely think a resurgence of 4-5+ ship lists is in the works. Two words: Swarm Leader.

Rey doesn't have only one evade, she has 1 and finn and rerolls of blanks if she needs them, if you're jousting her, which you will be.

Rey stands a solid chance of killing a 7 TIE swarm on her own. Either she's out of arc and not getting shot at all, bumped into tyhe front rank and only getting shot by what's left of the bank rank, or gettign shot by everyone but getting Finn and her pilot ability in defence. It's phenomenally unlikely that you'd manage to get shots on her out of arc.

14 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Rey doesn't have only one evade, she has 1 and finn and rerolls of blanks if she needs them, if you're jousting her, which you will be.

Rey stands a solid chance of killing a 7 TIE swarm on her own. Either she's out of arc and not getting shot at all, bumped into tyhe front rank and only getting shot by what's left of the bank rank, or gettign shot by everyone but getting Finn and her pilot ability in defence. It's phenomenally unlikely that you'd manage to get shots on her out of arc.

That's strange, because I flew an 8 TIE swarm against her in league, and won with three Academy pilots left. She hurts for one round, then you block her for the next 4 and kill her. I traded her for Wampa, Chaser, and an Academy pilot. She had expertise, too, and boy she hurt real bad, but it is only one ship. If she jousts, you block and block and block, she will die because you can k turn behind her, but she will struggle to get past you if you know how to approach.

Do you have any experience with the matchup, or are you just saying what you expect will happen?

I've flown a lot against expertise Rey, with miniswarms, though not TIE ones.

My experience has been rather different.

I don't see how Reys arc can possibly be big enough to catch all your TIEs as they scatter to block her sloops. I'd expect her to get bumped and whittled down pretty quickly.

I don;t see how they're scattering to block her sloops and still keeping arc to shoot her.

She only needs arc on one tie per round to kill it, and then one or two defensively.

And this is all ignoring the fact that she has a wingman as well.

Biggest Loser: Manaroo by a country mile. Her interactions in Dengaroo and Mindlink lists sealed her fate. Range 1 is, to me, too harsh. Range 1-2 would have still been a major hit; Dengar can't have Lone Wolf and Manaroo passing tokens with that restriction and she would still be a good support piece, just not so good that she would be the starting point for so many builds. Parattanni is still strong but it does take Fenn down a peg, he excels as a flanker in that list and taking away the global support from Manaroo makes him weaker on offense and defense.

x/7 is where it should be. It is still a strong card but, like many people have already mentioned, there is counter play now.

At least they didn't put a range restriction on Palpatine, he can still earn more than his points in a palp aces build by ensuring the aces take less damage.

Zuckuss seems right for his cost now. He will be fine on the Morning After Bus; Dengar, Zuckuss, Inspiring Recruit. Being able to force 2 defensive re-rolls a turn ain't too shabby and, like x/7, there is counter play now by stressing the ship he is on. I bet we don't see him on any other ship though, not until Scum get a ship with at least 2 crew slots.

Biggest Winner: So stress control should be a thing again. R3-A2, Tactician, and Rebel Captive are all proven. Maybe Flechette Torpedoes and Cannons will be a thing? Kylo's Shuttle(the title) might have some legs, I've seen it do good work on the table at a casual night. I wonder if we will see Thermal Detonators?

With Kylo crew all the rage, I bet three, four, or five ship lists will come back into style. Running two ships at a tourney is awfully risky when you could hit a Kylo match and have a major uphill fight.

I bet we also see some of the fragile aces(Soontir) show up a bit more with Dengaroo gone and Zuckuss crew under control.

All-in-all it seems like everyone will need to go back to the drawing board for squad building, we will definitely see some variety for a little while.

I feel that 4 x Tie Bombers as Alpha Strikers would do well now. They didn't like lots of arc dodgers, who are now not seen too often. Dengaroo really messed with them, and that's gone. The PS War is not raging to keep everyone at PS 8-9. Homing Missiles ignore Evade tokens. There are a good number of large based ships out there that are ready to get plastered by missiles. Four Tie Bombers kills 4 x TLT's.

34 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I feel that 4 x Tie Bombers as Alpha Strikers would do well now. They didn't like lots of arc dodgers, who are now not seen too often. Dengaroo really messed with them, and that's gone. The PS War is not raging to keep everyone at PS 8-9. Homing Missiles ignore Evade tokens. There are a good number of large based ships out there that are ready to get plastered by missiles. Four Tie Bombers kills 4 x TLT's.

I know you love your bombers. You're in the Charlotte area right? Are you in the Krayt cup this weekend? Bringing the bombers? Only way to find out for sure is to make a bomber list, practice it, and take it to some tournaments.

23 minutes ago, Burius1981 said:

I know you love your bombers. You're in the Charlotte area right? Are you in the Krayt cup this weekend? Bringing the bombers? Only way to find out for sure is to make a bomber list, practice it, and take it to some tournaments.

Right when they made Bombers good with GC and LRS....I dropped out of tournaments. I just don't find them worth it anymore. I just don't enjoy tournaments for what it costs in time, money, and spousal good will.

I am going to be at the Krayt Cup, but I'm running some Mario Kart events for those on the side boards. Testing it out for running at GenCon.

10 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

I don;t see how they're scattering to block her sloops and still keeping arc to shoot her.

She only needs arc on one tie per round to kill it, and then one or two defensively.

And this is all ignoring the fact that she has a wingman as well.

I can send you my logfile if you want to watch it.