Had a rules question come up in a fleet builds thread, so I thought I'd move things here.

Can a ship resolve the overload pulse critical effect against a unique squadron that has defense tokens?

My position is yes given that the squadron is a "defender," according to the card.

Under critical effects in the RRG

• Squadrons cannot resolve or suffer critical effects unless otherwise specified.

2 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Under critical effects in the RRG

• Squadrons cannot resolve or suffer critical effects unless otherwise specified.

Got it so it would have to be specified like the effect of flechettes.

1 minute ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

Got it so it would have to be specified like the effect of flechettes.

yup.

10 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

Got it so it would have to be specified like the effect of flechettes.

Take into account that the effect of the Flechettes is not a critical effect, it's just that you remove/spend that die (thing that you don't do to resolve a critical effect) and something happens, but it's the effect of an upgrade, not a critical effect

Yeah Flechettes and Numb are very clearly not crit effects

9 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Yeah Flechettes and Numb are very clearly not crit effects

Indeed, this is worth picking up on since it does not seem to have been clearly understood by some posters above:

"Spending a die with a crit symbol to trigger an effect" is not the same as "resolving a critical effect", and therefore can be done during attacks made by/against squadrons.

(Similarly, remember that crit icons are not spent to resolve critical effects).

So "overload pulse" on a raider would "trigger" against the squadron and because it is not a "critical effect" caused by a "damage card", its actions can be applied - its not causing damage i.e. no "damage card" applied.

On 7/3/2017 at 3:01 PM, DiabloAzul said:

Indeed, this is worth picking up on since it does not seem to have been clearly understood by some posters above:

"Spending a die with a crit symbol to trigger an effect" is not the same as "resolving a critical effect", and therefore can be done during attacks made by/against squadrons.

(Similarly, remember that crit icons are not spent to resolve critical effects).

And have a huge different timing. Ten Numb hurt my imperial aces a lot cause the defender's scatter cannot save my other scatter friends... nasty.

9 minutes ago, Mjorr said:

So "overload pulse" on a raider would "trigger" against the squadron and because it is not a "critical effect" caused by a "damage card", its actions can be applied - its not causing damage i.e. no "damage card" applied.

Overload Pulse absolutely is a critical effect, and as such, cannot be applied to squads. As posted in the other thread, damage cards do not enter into this at all.

Do not confuse the rules terms here, with the "standard" crit to flip the first damage card as example: The actual crit effect is the act of flipping the card face up, not applying the card text.

I'm becoming confused however, Isn't the effect of overload pulse the effect of an "upgrade card" and therefore not an applied critical effect (from above) "the actual crit effect is the act of flipping the card face up, not applying the card text". No card applied to squadron no "critical effect applied" as from your post so the effect of the upgrade card can be applied.

32 minutes ago, Mjorr said:

So "overload pulse" on a raider would "trigger" against the squadron and because it is not a "critical effect" caused by a "damage card", its actions can be applied - its not causing damage i.e. no "damage card" applied.

No.

9 minutes ago, Mjorr said:

I'm becoming confused however, Isn't the effect of overload pulse the effect of an "upgrade card" and therefore not an applied critical effect (from above) "the actual crit effect is the act of flipping the card face up, not applying the card text". No card applied to squadron no "critical effect applied" as from your post so the effect of the upgrade card can be applied.

Let's try to get you on track, crits are a difficult topic anyway, no shame athat all in getting a bit confused:

To trigger a crit, it is mandatory to have a proper die showing the crit symbol in your attack. The die is not spent to trigger the effect, you just name the crit effect you want to trigger and do it. It is also not necessary to damage hull or deal damage cards, an untouched ISD can still suffer a crit effect even if all damage from the attack is absorbed by Shields.

The actual crit effect is what's written after the colon on the relevant cards. Also, every ship has the standard critical effect, so you can treat each ship as having the virtual, free upgrade card saying "Crit: If the defender is dealt at least one damage card by this attack, deal the first damage card face up." (Page 4 of the RRG)

If you also have an Overload Pulse card, you can choose which of the two effects you want to use. You can only resolve one crit effect per attack, so you have to decide.

Squads cannot suffer crit effects, so no text with a "crit:" header can ever apply to a squadron, no matter which effect you would choose.

The effect of Ten Numbs ability is not a crit effect, note how there is no "Crit:" header but the text says to spend a die to use the effect. That's why this ability can apply to squads. Compare it with Norra Wexleys ability, which is a crit effect and has the proper header.