Your bandit theory is interesting. Puts more ships on the board, Z's got a decent dial, and are stupidly ignored. can be a great blocker, and still give the rerolls for Jess and allow the A-Wings to pincer. It's very interesting.

I'll draw up some bad photoshop diagrams tonight of how I approach and engage. A lot of it is rock placement and knowing how to create space and force opponents to make bad or worse decisions. I love it when they look at the field and go "I can fly over the rock, not get a shot, but not get snapped, and then I'm out of position for 2-3 turns. Or I can risk the snap, risk the multiple attacks from silly A-Wings, possibly die, but I shoot first...maybe I can kill one... but what if I can't?"

I keep wanting to add Prockets to these lists lol

Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Crack Shot (1)
Chardaan Refit (-2)
Snap Shot (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Crack Shot (1)
Chardaan Refit (-2)
Snap Shot (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Jess Pava (25)
R2-D6 (1)
Primed Thrusters (1)
Swarm Leader (3)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Guidance Chips (0)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 100

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It's....beautiful.

@gennataos you know whats better than 3 re-rolls with Jess for her 6 dice shot? 4 rerolls with Jess... and 2 cruise missiles.

I took out two jump masters in the first round of combat with the double A-crack double Z-Cruise variant. jesus christ...

Just gonna leave this here

On 10/14/2017 at 5:40 PM, Wiredin said:

@gennataos you know whats better than 3 re-rolls with Jess for her 6 dice shot? 4 rerolls with Jess... and 2 cruise missiles.

I took out two jump masters in the first round of combat with the double A-crack double Z-Cruise variant. jesus christ...

How do you think that compares to your Jess/Jan and the Jukes favorite?

I got to play the triple Snap/Jukes variant tonight...it did fairly well and won on time. I did a much better job of keeping the GSPs alive and everyone with actions. I'm starting to think it might be less of a jousting list sometimes and more of a "joust once then chase me into unfortunately positions" list.

1 hour ago, gennataos said:

joust once then chase me into unfortunately positions" list

I think so.

On 10/13/2017 at 1:11 PM, Wiredin said:

I'll draw up some bad photoshop diagrams tonight of how I approach and engage. A lot of it is rock placement and knowing how to create space and force opponents to make bad or worse decisions. I love it when they look at the field and go "I can fly over the rock, not get a shot, but not get snapped, and then I'm out of position for 2-3 turns. Or I can risk the snap, risk the multiple attacks from silly A-Wings, possibly die, but I shoot first...maybe I can kill one... but what if I can't?"

Where the drawings at?

I'm discovering that people, myself included, dismiss A-Wings in general. I've won most of the games I've played with them lately, albeit not against current meta lists. Jess usually dies at some point, because...duh. But the A-Wings keep on chugging. I'll get one beat up, them cycle it out to come back for a better approach. I'd rather have it flying around doing nothing than have it dive into the fray and get blown up before firing again.

I think the 3GSP version is my favorite thus far. It feels like it gives the most flexibility with everyone having boost capability and a measure of security in Autothrusters on all the GSPs. I'm debating changing out PA for AT on Jess. I definitely get 1-2 uses of PA per game and I like the security of IA to dump a painful crit, but I wonder how much damage I could dodge per game with AT instead...particularly in this turret-rich environment.

10 hours ago, BlodVargarna said:

Where the drawings at?

lol, sorry!

I'm going to fly the Ion/Stress Y and the Cruise Z's again tonight and report back. And I really need to do those deployment drawings. I will photograph my deployments tonight and submit those in the mean time.

I still think my Jan list is my favorite, but the Ion/Stress Y might be a better meta call. the Cruise Z's has a higher skill cap. I find the Z's are great as blockers after the cruise missile pass, and I still need to play with how it engages. The Jan list is the best way to deal with tripple jumps, imperial aces, and generally pre-Nym builds

My opponents no longer dismiss my A-Wings, they focus on them first. I think this is due to our smaller community and they just know now as I've been tinkering with this for half a year now. I still get my licks in, but the new meta has really thwarted with the turrets and bombs. I need to try the 3A variant for sure.

I didn't know your trying to lineup the Jess shot more than once? I usually get off the 6-7 (Jan variant) attack off once, then it's 4-5 dice shots the rest of the game. I've been keeping them together more lately, and I think that has been a big mistake.

5 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

I didn't know your trying to lineup the Jess shot more than once? I usually get off the 6-7 (Jan variant) attack off once, then it's 4-5 dice shots the rest of the game. I've been keeping them together more lately, and I think that has been a big mistake.

I'm not sure what you're asking. If it's about my "jousting list" comment, I'm just committing less to keeping arcs on the enemy and more keeping my ships alive for viable shots later. I had been selling out on Snap Shots a lot. Now I'm trying to treat them more as a happy bonus. That's not to say I'm still not setting them up, I'm just not putting them in a position to die in the hopes they get a Snap Shot off.

oooooooooohhhhhhhh I get it. yea, always better to not put yourself in a bad situation just to get a snap off.

@Wiredin Can you post the 5 ship build? I want to give it a spin tonight.

Also any issue with grabbing a TL at PS1 and shooting at range 2-3?

25 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

@Wiredin Can you post the 5 ship build? I want to give it a spin tonight.

Also any issue with grabbing a TL at PS1 and shooting at range 2-3?

yes. The one time I've flew it in a M formation. A-Wings forward, Z-s back in line with Jess. I did a 2 forward first, the enemy moved up 4 forward in large base ships. Then I did a 4 forward with everyone, first jump bumped my lead A-Wing (I always have one a little further ahead so that both don't get bumped) and then my Z's were able to get to R3 and lock. I don't think that would work again.

I think the ideal "joust" would be a V form with the Z's up front, A'Wings tucked in behind the Z's and Jess slightly behind the A's. I'm thinking a half base length seaperating everyone with a Range ruler width inbetween each pilot would work in deployment. Z's move up, go for the bump and allow both A's to snap. Get off the Jess shot. A'wings break off, Z's target lock primary target and engage secondary target if possible, Jess stays in formation with the Z's. A'wings pincer secondary target while Z's lineup cruise missile shot on the primary. Jess now in formation with the A's. Z's finish off primary target (hopefully) and A's/Jess finish off secondary target. Or at least that is how it's supposed to work in my mind. The trick and skill here would be to get Jess to keep alternating flying with the Z's and A's to keep the rerolls up. Alternate which pair of ships are running as blockers and attackers.

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Crack Shot (1)
Chardaan Refit (-2)
Snap Shot (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Crack Shot (1)
Chardaan Refit (-2)
Snap Shot (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Jess Pava (25)
R2-D6 (1)
Primed Thrusters (1)
Swarm Leader (3)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Guidance Chips (0)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 100

@Wiredin I enjoyed that list. I changed it slightly by putting harpoon missiles on one of the BSPs, and dropping primed thrusters on Jess.

I beat Vader and Kenric, losing a single BSP. Getting the cruise missile shot off is not easy. I liked harpoon better because I could dial whatever I wanted to get 4 dice.

I managed to trap Vader with a block from one of the GSPs, using a well placed boost. An action less Vader is a dead Vader.

The other GSP had a snapshot, I burned the crack shot to push 1 damage on him, then after Jess ate a 4 dice cruise missile, suffering 1 hull and punching out R2-D6 to avoid a crit.

GSP got 2hits 1 crit natural on Vader who was rolling naked evade dice knocking him down to 1 hull. Jess finished him off with a 4 dice shot from range 3 thanks to that same GSP’s evade token and squad leader (Fun fact: R2-D6 being discarded from IA doesn’t cause you to lose the EPT).

I love this build!

I flew the list below yesterday against Nym/Sol Sixxa with a bunch bombs and minefield mapper shenanigans. There was a wall of mines that I was unwilling to cross and my opponent just kept trying to bait me into crossing...which I continued to not do. With five minutes left, I came in a little closer just to see if I could kill Sol through the bombs, but lost a Bandit to the double TLT.

We agreed that it was pretty much the most boring game of X-Wing ever. I think we each shot 3-4 times...like, 3-4 shots from individual ships. In a tournament situation, I'd have had zero reason to come anywhere close to the wall of mines, I'd just have flown around until a favorable final salvo. Maybe that's the way for these type of lists to try to deal with bombing lists? Bombing lists are unlikely to have a better final salvo, just fly around until time? I'm pretty sure I could keep the 3 GSP version alive almost indefinitely.

Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Juke (2)
Chardaan Refit (-2)
Snap Shot (2)
Autothrusters (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Juke (2)
Chardaan Refit (-2)
Snap Shot (2)
Autothrusters (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Jess Pava (25)
R2-D6 (1)
Swarm Leader (3)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)
Guidance Chips (0)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

Total: 100

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2 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Bombing lists are unlikely to have a better final salvo, just fly around until time?

Yeah why not? You would have 11 red dice to is 6 or 7?

No reason to play the game on his terms.

Just now, BlodVargarna said:

Yeah why not? You would have 11 red dice to is 6 or 7?

No reason to play the game on his terms.

Yeah, I'll do some stupid stuff in a casual game, particularly towards the end, but I'm going to deliberately fly a list into the maw of death. There were opportunities for me to get past the mines, but no one is learning anything in a game where people aren't playing to the strengths or weaknesses of their list.

haha I went up against Sol/Nym yesterday too. but no map BS.

I'm ditching the Z-Cruise variant. I found it way to hard to get the Cruise off against skilled players. It only worked against the Jump list because he wanted to force a joust. Dengar/Ketsu tabled me as did Sol/Nym in the 2 matches I played it in.

I did fly the R3A2/BTL/Ion cannon Y-Wing with Juke/Snap/AT A-wing 3 times and went 2/3. First game I tabled an Whisper/Kylo squad. Shut down Whisper so fast it wasn't even funny. He got one shot off he blanked out on.

Second game was against Sol/Nym and that ion/stress really shut Nym down. I switched targets early after ripping off Sol's shields in the first exchange. Then turned and ambushed Nym for the next combat round and kept on him. He did take out Jess and an A, but the Y-Wing and the other A were able to finish off Sol with ease. AT/Stress/Ion were for sure the key pieces to the win. That and threading the needle with a 5 straight through a cluster mine next to a debris (1mm on each side of the template!) to setup the snapshot that killed Sol.

Third game was against a brutal dual defender ion/cruise list. K-Turn cruise missile up the A-wings butt! Couldn't use Snap because of ps1. Came down to Jess and Y-wing vs a Defender with 2 shields remaining. He Ion'd Jess off the board and I flew off the Y-Wing because there was no way lol.

23 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

haha I went up against Sol/Nym yesterday too. but no map BS.

I'm ditching the Z-Cruise variant. I found it way to hard to get the Cruise off against skilled players. It only worked against the Jump list because he wanted to force a joust. Dengar/Ketsu tabled me as did Sol/Nym in the 2 matches I played it in.

I did fly the R3A2/BTL/Ion cannon Y-Wing with Juke/Snap/AT A-wing 3 times and went 2/3. First game I tabled an Whisper/Kylo squad. Shut down Whisper so fast it wasn't even funny. He got one shot off he blanked out on.

Second game was against Sol/Nym and that ion/stress really shut Nym down. I switched targets early after ripping off Sol's shields in the first exchange. Then turned and ambushed Nym for the next combat round and kept on him. He did take out Jess and an A, but the Y-Wing and the other A were able to finish off Sol with ease. AT/Stress/Ion were for sure the key pieces to the win. That and threading the needle with a 5 straight through a cluster mine next to a debris (1mm on each side of the template!) to setup the snapshot that killed Sol.

Third game was against a brutal dual defender ion/cruise list. K-Turn cruise missile up the A-wings butt! Couldn't use Snap because of ps1. Came down to Jess and Y-wing vs a Defender with 2 shields remaining. He Ion'd Jess off the board and I flew off the Y-Wing because there was no way lol.

I think there's still value in experimenting with the Z's, but probably not with the cruise missiles. I think Crackshot can only be taken over Juke if you have 3 or more GSPs, and even then it's questionable. I'm also pretty stuck on having Autothrusters on them...there are just too many turrets around and it does so much to help with approach and range control.

Now, I don't really want to derail my own thread with a tangent, but I have been wondering if Jess is the best leader of the GSPs. She almost always goes down first, which makes sense. But, what if she was harder to bring down? This lacks the re-roll punch of Jess, but maybe the addition of Operations Specialist can give the GSPs more punch would make up the damage difference?

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Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Crack Shot (1)
Chardaan Refit (-2)
Snap Shot (2)
Autothrusters (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Crack Shot (1)
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Snap Shot (2)
Autothrusters (2)
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Wookiee Liberator (26)
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Operations Specialist (3)
Rey (2)

Total: 100

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swapping out Jess has crossed my mind too....I don't think a wookie is a bad idea either, especially with that 180 arc. I also like Rey with Finn and 2 snap/juke A's. I've been enjoying that a little bit. Your absolute right about AT tho. Those thrusters saved my butt so many times last night. The Y-Ion list impressed me. I've been talking about using it for a while now, but it really helped take down Nym hard!

Jess Pava (25)
R2-D6 (1)
Swarm Leader (3)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Gold Squadron Pilot (18)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
R3-A2 (2)
BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Snap Shot (2)
Chardaan Refit (-2)
Juke (2)
Autothrusters (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Snap Shot (2)
Chardaan Refit (-2)
Juke (2)
Autothrusters (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Total: 100

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Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Snap Shot (2)
Chardaan Refit (-2)
Juke (2)
Autothrusters (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Snap Shot (2)
Chardaan Refit (-2)
Juke (2)
Autothrusters (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Jake Farrell (24)
Swarm Leader (3)
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Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Green Squadron Pilot (19)
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Juke (2)
Autothrusters (2)
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Total: 99

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I've been wondering about an all A-Wing version. Use Jake as the swarm leader. Jake could maybe be as tanky as Jess if you don't get hit or focus/evade. I'm thinking you'd use him more as a distraction/decoy to goad the enemy ships to chase him as the 'primary' target, but then use the rest of the squad to tickle them to death.

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Chardaan Refit (-2)
Juke (2)
Autothrusters (2)
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Green Squadron Pilot (19)
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Chardaan Refit (-2)
Juke (2)
Autothrusters (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Rey (45)
Determination (1)
Finn (5)
Bistan (2)
Millennium Falcon (TFA) (1)

Total: 100

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I tried this a little while ago, only once. I didn't mind it. It wasn't great. Not having Kanan was really crappy.

wait wait wait

Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Snap Shot (2)
Chardaan Refit (-2)
Juke (2)
Autothrusters (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Snap Shot (2)
Chardaan Refit (-2)
Juke (2)
Autothrusters (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Rey (45)
Trick Shot (0)
Finn (5)
Operations Specialist (3)
Millennium Falcon (TFA) (1)

Total: 100

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Potential?????

Anyways, here are my Turn 0's

First rock I place is always 3 from the side and 2 from below. This gives me a good angle to come up with the formation. I attempt to do this on both sides so the enemy doesn't bottle neck me with a 2/2.

My opponents like rocking up the center more than the outside. So I use this to help create a lane when I can cross in. Depending on if they have small ships or large ships will depend on how I do this. In this scenario it's small ships. If it was a large ship I would put that rock at about range 1 from my rock and about 1.5 from his.

Here is where I place my third rock to create that second deployment alley.

completed rock placement

This is my Jess/Jan variant deployment.

Turn 1 - puts Jan in behind to help her with range control.

Turn 3 - excuse the other ships, I just grabbed what was in my bag. In this example I over comitted Jan, but I used the A-wings to block both lanes and then put Jess/Jan in a position where the enemy needs to circle back to the board edge.

Turn 4 - the turn around and pincer attack starts to be setup.

The Y-wing setup

Very different from the Jess/Jan setup. I figured out I want the Y-Wing to lead as I want it to meat shield and present itself as a nice fat target. As long as I can ion/stress the primary target so I can get in 2 solid rounds of concentrated fire to eliminate said target i'm happy. The Y-wing is just under R3 of the board edge so it can pass by that rock without landing on it.

So if I decide I should go down my board edge this is how this looks with me keeping the Y-wing

How it works if I decided to fly toward the opponents board edge.

how I deployed the Z-Cruise variant.

Wanna see hilarity?

Jan Ors (25)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Kanan Jarrus (3)

Kyle Katarn (21)
Swarm Leader (3)
Dorsal Turret (3)
Bistan (2)
Engine Upgrade (4)
Moldy Crow (3)

Prototype Pilot (17)
Chardaan Refit (-2)

Prototype Pilot (17)
Chardaan Refit (-2)

Total: 100

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2/3 W/L

I've messed around with Falcon/GSPs before...it always left me wanting. I'd rather have a 40-point Miranda than the GSPs.

4 hours ago, gennataos said:

I've messed around with Falcon/GSPs before...it always left me wanting. I'd rather have a 40-point Miranda than the GSPs.

I agree, and I think it's because the swarm leader goes off so early that the A-wings are left without defensive mods. The reason why Jess works so good is that she is often the last to shoot in the turn which allows the A-wings to use the Evade on defense if required. (I admit, I often will suffer 1 shield damage to get the swarm leader R1 shot off!)

The question then becomes, as fun as Swarm Leader is... are the GSP/Snap/Juke pilots better off with a leader without the Swarm Leader mechanic? ie: Corran Horn or Poe