Yeah, whatever. ^^ My point is that my esteem or lack thereof of Empereror Palpatine certainly doesn't hinge on whether or not he has to anounce his ability before or after.

38 minutes ago, streamdragon said:

You have to consider the trigger for the card though. Palpatine triggered (that is, gave you the option to use his power) on any and every die roll that you made. Attack, defend, bomb, obstacle, anything. Manaroo triggers each and every turn, and has/had multiple effects each trigger. If her power ONLY passed a focus token, it would hardly be an issue, but it made hitting her with ordinance incredibly difficult. Sabine triggers only on a bomb explosion, something which depending on the bomb choice, may not be doing any damage to begin with (lookin at your Cluster Mines).

Sabine is one of those cards that is linked to something that has been in the game forever, but was generally considered not worth it. Add her card in, and suddenly that thing is good where before it was not worth it. That can throw people for a loop, sure, but that doesnt mean it needs a change. Look at guidance chips. Before GCs existed, ordinance was rarely if ever seen. Same with bombs. Before Sabine you might see an occassional Connor Net, but with Sabine bombs actually become a worthwhile option. I really do not see any issues with that. I think the game would be worse off if Sabine were nerfed.

Sabine is triggered on each and every bomb token removal and gets to pick what target at range 1 she wants to hit. I don't see it as being any different. Your cluster mine killed the person you dropped it on? Great, free damage on another enemy ship at range 1. Your cluster mine rolled 0 hits? take a damage anyway. And cluster mines are great post-change.

I agree she makes bombs better. She just makes them WAY better. To the point that if you have aces and your opponent has bomber kwings, your aces are pretty much dead.

Manaroo could also do nothing (roll no eyeballs after passing focus tokens. Roll all hits/crits with a target lock, etc). If your opponent rolls all hits on a cluster mine, Sabine just makes it even better. If they roll all blanks, you still get a guaranteed damage

17 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Sabine is triggered on each and every bomb token removal and gets to pick what target at range 1 she wants to hit. I don't see it as being any different.

Yup, she sure does.... ONCE PER ROUND, for friendly bombs. Far from every bomb token removal...

1 minute ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Yup, she sure does.... ONCE PER ROUND, for friendly bombs. Far from every bomb token removal...

Thanks God!

1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Yup, she sure does.... ONCE PER ROUND, for friendly bombs. Far from every bomb token removal...

Was supposed to be has the option on every bomb removal, like palp has the option on every die roll (until they're used)

Just like palp was once per roll for a FRIENDLY dice roll. And manaroo is once per round for HER tokens.

2 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

Sabine is triggered on each and every bomb token removal and gets to pick what target at range 1 she wants to hit. I don't see it as being any different. Your cluster mine killed the person you dropped it on? Great, free damage on another enemy ship at range 1. Your cluster mine rolled 0 hits? take a damage anyway. And cluster mines are great post-change.

I agree she makes bombs better. She just makes them WAY better. To the point that if you have aces and your opponent has bomber kwings, your aces are pretty much dead.

Manaroo could also do nothing (roll no eyeballs after passing focus tokens. Roll all hits/crits with a target lock, etc). If your opponent rolls all hits on a cluster mine, Sabine just makes it even better. If they roll all blanks, you still get a guaranteed damage

My point with Palp is that rolling dice, any dice, is WAY more common than removing a bomb token with someone in range. Rolling dice is intrinsic to the game; hitting someone with a bomb takes at least a modicum of planning. I guess "WAY better" is somewhat up to interpretation, I say +1 damage (for 3 points and a crew slot, mind) makes them "pretty good". (Which, to parallel your Manaroo caveat, might not even matter if the bomb would have destroyed the enemy ship anyway.) But then, bombs need something else to make them "pretty good" because on their own they're somewhat lackluster. Granted, baked into that 3 points is the ability to put bomb slots on any ship with a crew slot, but I generally consider added a slot to be worth 0-1 points max.

Basically ask yourself, "Would bomber K-Wings be a thing without Sabine?" I'm fairly certain the answer is "no, it would not". I mean, how often do other factions even use bombs? You could argue that's down to lack of K-Wings, but I would posit that it's more simply that bombs are not reliable enough for their points without Sabine around. Much like torpedoes and missiles are not rarely seen without their carrier sporting Guidance Chips (or more rarely Long Range Scanners). Scum bombers ... well, scum bombER is Emon, because of his ability to place them at unusual angles. Without that, even with Bombardier being a 1-point-too-expensive Crew, you barely ever see Bombers.

Imperial Ace Wing was a thing before Palpatine came around, and it will be a thing after this nerf and going forward. The Palp nerf might hurt, but it will exist and continue to thrive.

stupid double post

17 minutes ago, streamdragon said:

My point with Palp is that rolling dice, any dice, is WAY more common than removing a bomb token with someone in range. Rolling dice is intrinsic to the game; hitting someone with a bomb takes at least a modicum of planning. I guess "WAY better" is somewhat up to interpretation, I say +1 damage (for 3 points and a crew slot, mind) makes them "pretty good". (Which, to parallel your Manaroo caveat, might not even matter if the bomb would have destroyed the enemy ship anyway.) But then, bombs need something else to make them "pretty good" because on their own they're somewhat lackluster. Granted, baked into that 3 points is the ability to put bomb slots on any ship with a crew slot, but I generally consider added a slot to be worth 0-1 points max.

Basically ask yourself, "Would bomber K-Wings be a thing without Sabine?" I'm fairly certain the answer is "no, it would not". I mean, how often do other factions even use bombs? You could argue that's down to lack of K-Wings, but I would posit that it's more simply that bombs are not reliable enough for their points without Sabine around. Much like torpedoes and missiles are not rarely seen without their carrier sporting Guidance Chips (or more rarely Long Range Scanners). Scum bombers ... well, scum bombER is Emon, because of his ability to place them at unusual angles. Without that, even with Bombardier being a 1-point-too-expensive Crew, you barely ever see Bombers.

Imperial Ace Wing was a thing before Palpatine came around, and it will be a thing after this nerf and going forward. The Palp nerf might hurt, but it will exist and continue to thrive.

Part of the reason you don't see other factions use bombs is the platforms. Nothing they have compares to the kwing. Being able to slam and drop a bomb is huge. And you pointed out scums bomber is emon. His problem is you can either take 1 bomb plus slave 1 for extra munitions, limiting you to 1 bomb type and 2 bombs total, or you can take andrasta and 3 bombs, but can't get extra munitions and have to pay for all the bombs jndicidually, making him really expensive.

2 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Part of the reason you don't see other factions use bombs is the platforms. Nothing they have compares to the kwing. Being able to slam and drop a bomb is huge.

Having that built in turret is nice plus too.

3 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

Having that built in turret is nice plus too.

AND the ability to use tlt. Combined with the native turret to cover the range 1 blind spot of tlt

Deathfire is the closest example, and I think his use shows us that there's something uniquely powerful about Advanced SLAM for bombs (which he sort of duplicates with his barrel/bomb ability). However it's also telling that his bombs are distruptive Conner Nets not 'trying to kill you with explosives' of Cluster Mines and Sabine. It's too risky to Cluster with Deathfire as the payoff is so uncertain, while with Conner Net you know you;re getting value.

3 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

Having that built in turret is nice plus too.

Indeed. A huge part of what makes the TIE bomber so lack luster as a bomb and ordnance platform when compared to the K-wing and J5K is that once it has spend its payload it's fairly helpless whereas the Rebel/Scum counterparts are both highly mobile and will be able to get shots to finish off any stranglers.

Oh, and also Sabine

My 2 pence goes like this:

palp- would've preferred a range 1-3 restriction myself. Quite fluffy though so... ''tis what it is.

manaroo- wow. That's harsh. As above I think r1-3 would be fine with her. Still...

zuckuss- not sure it was needed tbh. With dengaroo nerfed my manaroo's nerf; it seems a bit excessive.

X/7- I like this. It's still good but not silly.

mindlink is fine, bombs are fine. Spaceships are pretty fun. I like spaceships.