33 minutes ago, Darth evil said:

Can we apply now for refunds, this has got to be the last straw. It's getting really irritating having cards like Tie Phantoms and now Raider, Jumpmaster constantly changed after you spent good money on them, why don't you nerf Autothrusters while your at it.

Whoa, wait! I'd didn't realize they mentioned Huge ships at all with this nerf. What did they do to make the Raider less effective? Did they somehow decrease its energy budget?

16 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Why do people keep making this false argument?

No, I cannot unilaterally "play how I want" or "ignore the FAQ if I want." Less tournament-focused players also care about FFG's official changes to the rules, because they are a baseline for playing less tournament-focused games with other players.

Exactly. Even at the dining room table, vs. my brother, I have to ask "new Palpy or old Palpy." And if we disagree, the only "fair" thing to do is to obey the RAW.

51 minutes ago, FangedChicken said:

I disagree with that assessment. Any significant increase in variance (like this) reduces the skill required. It's true that in some ways he's harder to use (in the sense that you now have to really be sure you need to use him), but now you're opening up that use to chance .

What variance? You choose when to use him and you get to change a die to any side you like. Palpatine is still fine. He's obviously worse but still heads and shoulders better than most cards.

Manaroo is dead. RIP.

The others are hurt but might find some way to come back.

3 minutes ago, AceWing said:

What variance? You choose when to use him and you get to change a die to any side you like. Palpatine is still fine. He's obviously worse but still heads and shoulders better than most cards.

Example: If I roll 3 evades, after declaring palp to add an evade result, nothing changes on my dice roll. Previously the chance of that happening was zero, because I make the decision after I roll the dice. Thus, chance/variance. The fact of quantity is inconsistent because you can't predict dice rolls. (Unless you use the dark side of the force! )

18 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Big dislike and disagree: That means if you take 2 or 3 defenders, you put a 1 point tax on each. That's basically like saying the Delta is now 29 points. The tie defender really did need a strong buff. With all of this and if stress is a thing in the meta, defenders are paying a huge tax.

Let's call @MajorJuggler , is it possible to get a calculation for the current value of x7? Especially against something like the nerfed Paratanni, which still works moderately well.

I Believe Juggler said a 27 point defender would have been perfectly balanced in the wave 5-6 metagame*. Paying 1 point (And two seldom used slots) for a free token much of the time dethroned the Academy Pilot and Bandit Squadron Pilot as the most efficient ship. That's the definition of power creep.

The token becoming more conditional is still likely to leave them ahead of the curve.

*The last public Mathwing release was partway through wave VI. Twin Laser Turret altered a lot of the underlying durability calculations, so the numbers from those formulas don't produce perfect results. Major Juggler did do more work on the subject, but by that time he'd invested so much effort that he realized he had the makings of an academic paper, and has kept Mathwing 3.0 private as a result.

7 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

Manaroo is dead. RIP.

The others are hurt but might find some way to come back.

Maybe not totally dead. Parattanni might actually still work. She just has to stick in closer. But that is a maybe. Otherwise, I doubt we'll see her except for a few fringe cases.

1 hour ago, Lightrock said:

Manaroo change is harsh - I think a simple price increase would have done the trick. I'm beginning to see a pattern here. Is FFG happy to change the text on the cards but not the point cost?

Yes, they have said this straight out. In fact, for a very long time they only reason they would _ever_ change card text was to make the "Card as Written" conform to the "Card as Printed". The way Expert Handling used to be printed was... Hilarious.

But other than cases like that, they only ever touched the rules, and not the intended meaning of a card's text. For instance: they buffed proximity mines and nerfed cloaking by changing the rules.

It seems their Heavy Scyk experience- or change in lead designer- has led them to be a bit less conservative with their FAQ process.

I can't help but feel that these changes are a response to a vocal minority of complaints, since they seem so laser-guided to the things that so often get whinged and moaned about (mostly baselessly), and not one of them feels right.

The Palpatine change is madness - forcing the player to make the call beforehand makes for a card that is not worth 8pts and two crew slots any longer, and baffles me since Palpatine is a much rarer sight at top tables than he used to be and certainly doesn't feel an overbearing presence on the meta at the moment.

/x7 has been hit too hard - making it cancellable by collisions, I understand (though I don't agree), but making it an action as well takes it too far. There were already a fairly strict set of conditions on that evade (have to go fast enough, lose out on two upgrade slots) on a still very expensive ship, and it was still just a token which is already vulnerable to so many other things. My worry now is that, with efficiency as cut-throat as it is and how little there is between the current Defender and the pre-Veterans joke of a ship, it might be veering closer to be being back there.

Manaroo really didn't need a range limit - her weakness is an almost total lack of contribution in firepower for the 30-odd points spent on her (it's a rare list that gives her the title) - but giving her one so strict again strikes me as overdoing it.

Zuckuss, a card that has only ever been problematic in one build (that being Dengar/Manaroo) goes over to being probably not worth taking on any ship at all besides the C-ROC, since it's unlikely to compete with the other Scum crews for such a situational effect. Adding a cap to how much stress you could have before using it, fine (though again, I argue that it isn't needed), but once again, the solution goes too far.

Meanwhile the most common meta-list at the moment, Mindlink Ventress/Fenn/*insert third ship here* remains untouched, as it can (and does) function perfectly well without Manaroo, and arguably better since it's not dependant on her.

With how awkward, overly punishing, and coincidentally specific all of these changes are, I fear they are more a result of kneejerk sledgehammering than careful consideration of balance and the overall game state, and genuinely don't think they improve anything since Mindlink will remain at the top whereas common counters are severely hampered.

Great changes, the meta is wide open now

7 minutes ago, MalusCalibur said:

With how awkward, overly punishing, and coincidentally specific all of these changes are, I fear they are more a result of kneejerk sledgehammering than careful consideration of balance and the overall game state, and genuinely don't think they improve anything since Mindlink will remain at the top whereas common counters are severely hampered.

Yeah, they probably didn't playtest this stuff at all. The design team was out drinking this weekend and said "man, slow on X-Wing news this time o' the year. I gotta sure-fire way to light up dem forum boards, though *hick*."

There we go folks!

http://www.captiongenerator.com/394252/Hitler-learns-about-the-TIE-Defender-nerf

Make sure to turn on the subtitles.

1 hour ago, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

The only feeling worse than being pressured to spend $90 for a competitive tournament level crew card is the feeling you get when you read that the card has been **** near neutered.

But you could always use a Proxy of Palpatine if you didn't actually own it! Or at least that's what I seem to hear a lot. Walk into a tournament without it certainly someone would loan you a copy if the venue was going to push the no-proxy rule.

2 hours ago, RStan said:

I overall take this FAQ as taking the most "auto-take" Meta content and taking the Easy Button out of them. All these cards can still work, they now take either more time investing to learn how to make them work for you or (in the case of Zuckuss) may need other cards (Inspiring Recruit) to help them work closer to what they did before.

Zuckuss could also work with Electronic Baffles. I mean, it would make the ship he's on a glass cannon, but on a ship with a lot of hull, it could be interesting...

8 minutes ago, MalusCalibur said:

/x7 has been hit too hard - making it cancellable by collisions, I understand (though I don't agree), but making it an action as well takes it too far. There were already a fairly strict set of conditions on that evade (have to go fast enough, lose out on two upgrade slots) on a still very expensive ship

Lol, strict. Speed 3+, which you were 90% likely to do anyways since... 4K and 2 slots you were never going to use

I don't think this new Palp is worth the opportunity cost of a third ace. At 8pts (29 minimum to bring into the squad), 2crew and the potential to be completely wasted even if used wisely, I think you'd get more out of incorporating a third set of guns that can stay engaged into your ace squad. The strongest cards and ships are ones that can bring consistency, C3P0, Gunner, Ventress, R3-A2 are cards that have dependable uses, you can count on these cards to do their jobs in a positive and productive way. I'm not saying Palp couldn't have been toned down a bit, but if you are the most expensive crew in the game, and the only crew considered so powerful that you should take two crew slots, you should bring a dependable consistent ability, because if you don't there are MUCH cheaper cards that will.

1 minute ago, Makaze said:

Lol, strict. Speed 3+, which you were 90% likely to do anyways since... 4K and 2 slots you were never going to use

You remove its Mathwing expected value for more than half its dial, PLUS make it an action where the greens are only straights. And defenders have low PS which means they have to plan most of their moves to not bump.

You either don't play Defenders at a high level or you're salty. Use your brain.
Also, pre-x7, that 1 and 2 slight were solid gold. Post x7, yes they were pretty bad, but you gave up the speed control for x7 efficiency.

17 minutes ago, FangedChicken said:

Example: If I roll 3 evades, after declaring palp to add an evade result, nothing changes on my dice roll. Previously the chance of that happening was zero, because I make the decision after I roll the dice. Thus, chance/variance. The fact of quantity is inconsistent because you can't predict dice rolls. (Unless you use the dark side of the force! )

If they roll three to four hits, I use Palp. Since I'm probably not rolling three evades, it's not a dead use and could very well save some number of tokens from being used. Those tokens can be spent on future attack or defense rolls.

If they roll one or two hits, I simply don't use Palp.

Palp is clearly worse now but still head and shoulders better than most cards.

7 minutes ago, AceWing said:

If they roll three to four hits, I use Palp. Since I'm probably not rolling three evades, it's not a dead use and could very well save some number of tokens from being used. Those tokens can be spent on future attack or defense rolls.

If they roll one or two hits, I simply don't use Palp.

Palp is clearly worse now but still head and shoulders better than most cards.

Everything you said is true. So is everything I've said. What do we do now?

10 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Lol, strict. Speed 3+, which you were 90% likely to do anyways since... 4K and 2 slots you were never going to use

You have clearly never flown Defenders well if you believe those things. And it is this exact kind of ill-informed opinion that I fear has influenced the designers on this matter - that Defenders are 'easy mode' and all you have to do is '4k to victory'.

I've never flown any of the meta lists that have been affected by this change; but have faced them more times than I care to count. I'm looking forward to certain cards no longer being 'auto-include' and an opening up of the meta.

Manaroo is hardly dead. Biggs and Howlrunner both have a range 1 restriction and they still get plenty of use. She is different, not dead.

As as my brother pointed out these changes are a meta behind and seem to have been play tested before Parattanni existed. The Manaroo change hurts somewhat but not nearly as much as you might think.

The Emperor might well not be viable as a pure support ship now (I.e. lambda shuttle), but is still pretty good on a more offensive minded ship like a Decimator or Upsilon.

Zuckuss, oh Zuckuss. A good change in effectiveness, but they really missed a beat on fixing him for Epic at the same time. Sad!

X7 is worse, but still the same. Better player won't care because they will avoid being blocked. It is at least counterable now, and played well loses very little of it effectiveness.

Overall I am happy with the changes they made, but concerned about the changes they did not. Did TLT not have just as much if not more impact on the balance of the game than any of these cards and yet it is still untouched. It's relative power went up, and it was still already really good. I think it was time to just add a green dice at range 3 to the text.

it is slightly bemusing to not see Targeting Synchroniser clarified since it has some of the worst wording on any card to date.

And finally, I think Sabine (crew) is on deck as the next card to receive the nerf bat. I am surprised she wasn't included already to be honest. She is on a power level equal or stronger than Palpatine and Manaroo, and I think we will see that play out over the next few months.

Just now, Dr Zoidberg said:

I've never flown any of the meta lists that have been affected by this change; but have faced them more times than I care to count. I'm looking forward to certain cards no longer being 'auto-include' and an opening up of the meta.

It'll open up for a little, then the new power lists will be found, and we're back at the start again.

One thing that is clear from this round of nerfs, no card is safe. No ship is safe. It's a proverbial vote of no confidence in the design team, as even when they make things better they just have to turn around and make them worse. It definitely makes me skeptical about buying packs to build awesome fleets if it's just going to be a culture of fear in which we can't ever feel confident that we can enjoy the products we own.

Hooooooly geez, I'm impressed.

Manaroo was hit far too harsh; I doubt we'll see her again very much. Even a 1-2 would have left her able to contribute, but 1 is very tight flying indeed.

Palpatine is in fact the 'fix' I'd been suggesting all along. I'll take it, though his greatest escorts (Interceptors, TAP) were dead already. I foresee the rise of the Triple Aces & Defenders in its wake; why not just take a third ship as the spare, you know?

Zuckuss is now a 2pt card that takes 2 crew slots. Worth it, on occasion, maybe... but still not enough to take on 4LOM.

Defenders are going to remain top of the pack just fine - the mathematical efficency hasn't dissapeared any, though you now need to be very careful that you don't run into counterplay squads. Return of the Stresshog, perhaps?

Overall? If you're gonna do rewrites, I guess this is how they're gonna get done. Pretty heavy handed, though, and TBH X-wings and B-wings are still off the tables.