Yeah Palpatine I'll wager will still see a fair amount of play after the initial shock goes away. He and Defenders were the least affected. Interested to see how the Scum meta shapes up now. And this might be enough to bring back a few Rebel lists, but we'll have to wait and see on that one.

I'm probably likely to still play Palp. But it won't be nearly as powerful.

1 minute ago, Jeff Wilder said:

For skilled players, it's simply not a very big change. It does take Palpatine from the very tip-top of "balanced" to toward the bottom of "balanced." (And that will have a significant effect in high-level tourney play.) But the change still falls in the band of "balanced," and that's a fairly narrow band. It's not a very big change.

I disagree with that assessment. Any significant increase in variance (like this) reduces the skill required. It's true that in some ways he's harder to use (in the sense that you now have to really be sure you need to use him), but now you're opening up that use to chance .

Defenders were really shafted though. x7 is now like a requirement vs Paratanni and other stress lists. They were 3 or 4 points over costed, now -2, but with huge restrictions on movement. Imo, the defender nerf was far too hard. Especially in top level play.

If they had just made it so that they don't get it on a bump fine. But making it a free action dn their sh*tty greens means that vs Paratanni and other stress lists, they're going to have a crap time getting their evades.

The only feeling worse than being pressured to spend $90 for a competitive tournament level crew card is the feeling you get when you read that the card has been **** near neutered.

So glad this FAQ wasn't released on April 1st!

Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yesssss!!!!!!!!

Burn forums! BUUUURRRRRRRNNNN!

LET THE SALT FLOW THROUGH YOUR VEINS LIKE HOT THICK BLOOD!!!!!!!

Looks good from my end. Not 100% sure on the new palp being worth 8 and 2 crew.

Would have liked to have had just as many buffs as nerfs.

I can live with all of these changes, though I think Palp isn't quite worth 8 points anymore. Would still use him, with a recognition that it is probably no longer the most point efficient option.

My biggest gripe...the number of substantial changes to printed cards is starting to get cumbersome. It kind of stinks to have all these cards in our collections that have the wrong rules printed on them, and no real source for correctly printed replacements. The Errata is so lengthy that you almost constantly have to refer to it (its too much for a mere mortal to remember). I do know how to print my own cards through a print on demand shop, but I doubt the legality of doing so. I really wish there was a legit way to get correct cards.

Wow. I missed the fun, having been at work all day. I may break out the T65s as nearly all my auto-lose lists should be limited.

nearly...

17 minutes ago, FangedChicken said:

I disagree with that assessment. Any significant increase in variance (like this) reduces the skill required. It's true that in some ways he's harder to use (in the sense that you now have to really be sure you need to use him), but now you're opening up that use to chance .

See, you can call it an "increase in variance" if you like, and that's true from a certain point of view. But the most skilled Palpatine players knew when they were going to need and use Palpatine 90% of the time anyway. It was sometimes purely reactive, but not always, which means that, for skilled players, it's not that large a change.

The change will affect those rare unexpectedly bad rolls in a game, and it will likewise affect those rare unexpectedly good rolls in a game (i.e., you declare a Palp-evade, but roll three natural evades). That's a change, and it will have an effect, which is exactly what I said: it takes a very, very strong card, teetering at the top of "balanced," and knocks it down firmly into the bottom half of "balanced."

But it's still balanced, and just not that big a change from any perspective except "showings at high-level tournaments." If that's your only metric, sure, call it a huge change. But that's not my only metric.

EDIT: And, BTW, I'm saying this from the perspective of someone who is on record as saying I don't think Palpatine needed a nerf. But I'm fine with this nerf for two reasons (in addition to my assertion that it's not a big change): (1) Not everybody twigged to the fact that you simply must kill the ******* Lambda, especially since there was, IMO, a concerted misinformation campaign advising the exact opposite, and (2) even if every player figured that out, it really is unfortunate that one card constrained the strategy against a list archetype to "exactly one right way."

Can we apply now for refunds, this has got to be the last straw. It's getting really irritating having cards like Tie Phantoms and now Raider, Jumpmaster constantly changed after you spent good money on them, why don't you nerf Autothrusters while your at it.

Just now, Blail Blerg said:

Defenders were really shafted though. x7 is now like a requirement vs Paratanni and other stress lists. They were 3 or 4 points over costed, now -2, but with huge restrictions on movement. Imo, the defender nerf was far too hard. Especially in top level play.

If they had just made it so that they don't get it on a bump fine. But making it a free action dn their sh*tty greens means that vs Paratanni and other stress lists, they're going to have a crap time getting their evades.

So take Twin Ion Engine Mk II. It's super effective.

22 minutes ago, Engine25 said:

Yeah Palpatine I'll wager will still see a fair amount of play after the initial shock goes away. He and Defenders were the least affected. Interested to see how the Scum meta shapes up now. And this might be enough to bring back a few Rebel lists, but we'll have to wait and see on that one.

Well...Palp gets a big nerf. Immagine to guess 1 evade, and roll 3 natural evades.You had throw it.

Double tap now becomes a nice threat for him.

1 hour ago, Flatlinerultra said:

I am fine with what they did to Palp, however he is not as powerful as he was and his ability is not guaranteed. That being said, his cost should only be 4-6pt and cost one crew slot . His ability is similar to C3PO and right now he is not worth the cost. I see this as a big blow to this card and people will stay away from a big cost card for it's minor ability.

C3PO works only on defense and only for the ship he's on. It's not similar.

1 minute ago, Jeff Wilder said:

See, you can call it an "increase in variance" if you like, and that's true from a certain point of view. But the most skilled Palpatine players knew when they were going to need and use Palpatine 90% of the time anyway. It was sometimes purely reactive, but not always, which means that, for skilled players, it's not that large a change.

The change will affect those rare unexpectedly bad rolls in a game, and it will likewise affect those rare unexpectedly good rolls in a game (i.e., you declare a Palp-evade, but roll three natural evades). That's a change, and it will have an effect, which is exactly what I said: it takes a very, very strong card, teetering at the top of "balanced," and knocks it down firmly into the bottom half of "balanced."

But it's still balanced, and just not that big a change from any perspective except "showings at high-level tournaments." If that's your only metric, sure, call it a huge change. But that's not my only metric.

It's pretty much the only metric I care about when it comes to these sorts of discussions. After all, you can play how you want casually. You could ignore all the FAQs if you wanted.

I think the change is significant precisely because of the "unexpected" bad rolls. He was a pretty significant mitigating factor for bad dice rolls, which is, in my humble opinion, one of the biggest draws to playing the card competitively. "Fixing" your odds in a game centered around rolling dice is pretty great. I think mathematically it's a bigger downgrade than you think, but who knows? Maybe someone will determine that an extra evade or crit on a roll is worth the 8 points when your dice are "performing as expected".

Gunner is going to mess with Palpatine so badly now it's not even funny.

On a side note this topic is nearing 200 replies in under 3 hours. If nothing else, people respect the changes.

5 minutes ago, Astech said:

Gunner is going to mess with Palpatine so badly now it's not even funny.

On a side note this topic is nearing 200 replies in under 3 hours. If nothing else, people respect the changes.

For better or worse, I love this game. It's probably my favorite game ever. I'm sure a lot of people around here feel the same. I'm glad as a community we can come together to discuss the changes and try to make the game as awesome as possible.

6 minutes ago, FangedChicken said:

It's pretty much the only metric I care about when it comes to these sorts of discussions. After all, you can play how you want casually. You could ignore all the FAQs if you wanted.

Why do people keep making this false argument?

No, I cannot unilaterally "play how I want" or "ignore the FAQ if I want." Less tournament-focused players also care about FFG's official changes to the rules, because they are a baseline for playing less tournament-focused games with other players.

21 minutes ago, Darth evil said:

Can we apply now for refunds, this has got to be the last straw. It's getting really irritating having cards like Tie Phantoms and now Raider, Jumpmaster constantly changed after you spent good money on them, why don't you nerf Autothrusters while your at it.

Exactly. Thank you.

1 hour ago, Lightrock said:

I'm very happy with the changes to Palp but disappointed it didn't come with a price reduction. He could have been a very interesting and fun card to play but not if nobody will use him because alternatives are so much better for the same cost.

x7 change is perfect.

Manaroo change is harsh - I think a simple price increase would have done the trick. I'm beginning to see a pattern here. Is FFG happy to change the text on the cards but not the point cost? I suppose it makes sense, as it would create a lot of confusion when checking the costs of ships and the legality of the lists. Still, I think it might force them to take suboptimal decisions when it comes to balancing the game.

Zuckuss will now be used as intended (or won't, plenty of competition for the Scum crew slots).

The one elephant in the room left is Sabine and the rebel bomb madness. It's the one thing left that forces Imperials to use defenders/tie sfs because nothing else is tanky enough to survive the onslaught. Making advanced SLAM unique would at least curb the worst excesses of rebel bomb lists and I'm a bit disappointed they didn't put it in the FAQ or address the problem through some other means.

It's a clarification rather than errata and if anything, it's a nerf. It means gunner and similar effects will trigger if he uses his ability.

It also means you can avoid secondary effects from things like ion cannon and tractor beam

1 hour ago, Kdubb said:

Don't need to read the rest of this. Glad unfassbarnathan got to the point on page 1.

Nerfs are good when done right, but when you don't nerf everything that needs a nerf, then whatever isn't touched floats to the top.

Mark my words- Mindlink is going to be EEVVVVVVEERRRRRRYYYYYYWWWWHHHHHEEEERRRREEEE.

Also, TLTs are back in full force.

Other than that, I'm pretty pleased with the erratas.

TLTs don't bother me all that much. Mindlinked uboats can kill em pretty much just as effectively as deadeye uboats could

38 minutes ago, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

The only feeling worse than being pressured to spend $90 for a competitive tournament level crew card is the feeling you get when you read that the card has been **** near neutered.

Did that happen to you? Did you really spend $90 on the Raider and feel zero joy that Darth Vader was finally worth his points? Have you never pulled out the Raider itself and given it a spin?

Btw: eBay does exist.

26 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

So take Twin Ion Engine Mk II. It's super effective.

Big dislike and disagree: That means if you take 2 or 3 defenders, you put a 1 point tax on each. That's basically like saying the Delta is now 29 points. The tie defender really did need a strong buff. With all of this and if stress is a thing in the meta, defenders are paying a huge tax.

Let's call @MajorJuggler , is it possible to get a calculation for the current value of x7? Especially against something like the nerfed Paratanni, which still works moderately well.

33 minutes ago, Darth evil said:

Can we apply now for refunds, this has got to be the last straw. It's getting really irritating having cards like Tie Phantoms and now Raider, Jumpmaster constantly changed after you spent good money on them, why don't you nerf Autothrusters while your at it.

Play at home, for free, any way you like.

But if you are mad because you want to win tournaments, then (A.) you have to invest in the sport to get the best gear, always; and (B.) you are probably paying a fee to play anyways, which is another sunk cost.

Just now, Jeff Wilder said:

Why do people keep making this false argument?

No, I cannot unilaterally "play how I want" or "ignore the FAQ if I want." Less tournament-focused players also care about FFG's official changes to the rules, because they are a baseline for playing less tournament-focused games with other players.

We're discussing balances for cards at the top of the tournament meta. But you're right, what I said isn't universally true, I shouldn't have made an all-encompassing statement. But it's a baseline, like you said. Your table/house rules can still apply. I've played MTG for 20+ years. We have house rules where we frown upon certain cards/combos.