If all of a hero's strain is on "Artificial Stimulants" (crate item), can the IP trigger "Nowhere to Run"?
Other words, is strain on artificial stimulants considered to be strain that hero "has suffered"? Or does "suffered" strain necessarily have to be present on the hero sheet?
Judging on the exact wordings on Artificial Stimulants, I would say yes you can trigger it
AS simply gives you another way to keep track of strain (and allows trading). Nowhere does it say you didn't actually suffer the strain
Personally, i don't think the "Nowhere to Run" can be triggered.
I would rule that the hero himself/herself should have 3 strain tokens for "Nowhere to Run" to trigger.
(I'm an imperial player; not biased towards rebels)
I would agree with Serox. The intent of Artifical Stimulants to that the hero doesn't suffer strain themselves until the card is full.
2 hours ago, Serox said:I would rule that the hero himself/herself should have 3 strain tokens for "Nowhere to Run" to trigger.
I agree on this part, which is why I think you CAN trigger it
The exact wording for AS is "When you suffer strain, do X". Which means the hero in question has indeed suffered strain. It does not matter whether we put the physical strain token on hero sheets or AS (crate card), and AS does not allow you to "pretend" there's no strain
It's a temporary place (hot-potato-ish) for a hero to keep track of their suffered strain. Hence I'd rule you may trigger NtR as long as (strain token on hero sheet + strain token on AS) >= 3
Also yes if another hero grabs AS, you may now trigger NtR on that hero
44 minutes ago, ricope said:The exact wording for AS is "When you suffer strain, do X". Which means the hero in question has indeed suffered strain.
It's a temporary place (hot-potato-ish) for a hero to keep track of their suffered strain.
For the same reason, when a 3-endurance (wounded) hero has 3 strain on AS, do you never let them take a 4th because you can't take strain if "you have suffered" strain equal to your endurance?
51 minutes ago, Rawling said:For the same reason, when a 3-endurance (wounded) hero has 3 strain on AS, do you never let them take a 4th because you can't take strain if "you have suffered" strain equal to your endurance?
If hero A only have 3 endurance and have 3 strain on AS (and none on his hero sheet), then yes they may voluntarily suffer up to 4 more (1 more = discard AS + 3 more for max endurance)
I don't think it's the intention to say 3 strain on AS meant hero suffered 0. AS specifically said "instead of your hero sheet", it doesn't permit you to treat as if that strain does not exist (for cards involving strains)
Otherwise, you'd be saying that having AS (a crate card) also makes you immune to cards like 4xp No Quarter and 4xp Oppression from SubTac which I think is ludicrous: hey I didn't actually suffer any strain! it's on AS card & not me!
edit: note AS is not optional, you MUST place strain on AS if possible. Hence why I said it's just another temp. place keep track of your strains + counts for purposes of heroes "have suffered X strains"
Edited by ricopeArtificial Stimulants: When you suffer strain, place that strain on this card instead of your hero sheet....
So, I would say the hero has suffered the strain on both Artificial Stimulants and his hero sheet. Edit: A hero suffers also the strain he places on the Artificial Stimulants (so things triggering from suffering strain work), but game-mechanically "strain a hero has suffered" is the number of strain tokens on the hero sheet.
(A hero with Endurance 3 and 3 strain tokens on his hero sheet and Artificial Stimulants can voluntarily suffer strain without it exceeding his endurance, so it is allowed)
Edited by a1bert
57 minutes ago, a1bert said:(A hero with Endurance 3 and 3 strain tokens on his hero sheet and Artificial Stimulants can voluntarily suffer strain without it exceeding his endurance, so it is allowed)
The wording in the rules is "A hero cannot choose to suffer (strain) if the amount of (strain) he has
suffered would exceed his Endurance."
AS does not say "you can suffer strain beyond your endurance".
If you count AS as "(strain) he has suffered", then if your strain on your hero card and your strain on AS add up to your endurance you cannot suffer more strain.
You can't have it both ways - either AS does not count as "strain suffered" for Subversive Tactics, or it does count as "strain suffered" for the basic game mechanics and breaks things.
You are correct. There's a contradiction, so one must be wrong. (One should always check the wordings instead of remembering.)
So, it seems the hero suffers a strain, but the strain token put on the Artificial Stimulants is not strain he has suffered. Only the tokens on the hero sheet are the strain the hero has suffered.
RRG,Strain said:When a game effect mentions the amount of strain a hero "has suffered," it refers to the total value of strain tokens currently on his Hero sheet.
Also, when recovering strain, a hero can only discard strain tokens from his hero sheet, not from the Artificial Stimulants card.
The hero still suffers strain that is placed on the Artificial Stimulants, so it can trigger abilities from suffering strain.
Edited by a1bert
Hah. That definition of "has suffered" could've answered this in one post!
Okay, so the RRG says "strain suffered" is exclusively strain counted on that hero's sheet? I could not find that. That would answer the question though.
Because if you define "has suffered" as any time strain was suffered during the game, there would be no way to keep track of it. You'd never know at a glance how much strain a hero 'has suffered' if it's not the count of tokens currently present on the sheet. Also, by that other definition, if AS was passed to another hero, they actually never did 'suffer' that strain, but it would still count against them. That's not cool either...
That was my thought on it - and that's how we played it. Anyone have a reference in the rules guide for me? I don't have the book in front of me...
Thx folks!
Also, I think this gets cleared up when you think thematically. An artificial stimulant would effectively 'cancel' a strain you're suffering. It's confusing only because we use 'strain' tokens as the counters on that card. There actually IS NO strain anywhere - just 'cancelled' strain...
Right?
A figure suffers strain - the number of strain processed during resolving of an ability. A figure has suffered strain - the number of strain tokens on the hero sheet.
The same applies to damage, and the difference between suffers and has suffered is underlined in the rules. (Although there were a few slip-ups in the core, see errata to Temptation and Failsafe).
Anyone have a reference in the rules guide for me? I don't have the book in front of me...
I already quoted it above.
Edited by a1bertI just meant a page number, a1bert. The guys I play with will insist - they can be jerks like that. I would personally trust you with the lives of my own family though. Real talk.
So your friend refuses to turn the pages until the page contains the heading "Strain"?
It's page 23, the right column, starting from top of page, last bullet point of "Strain in a campaign"
See Rules from https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/star-wars-imperial-assault/
Edited by a1bert
What can I say? They're jerks. LOL
54 minutes ago, a1bert said:So your friend refuses to turn the pages until the page contains the heading "Strain"?
It's page 23, the right column, starting from top of page, last bullet point of "Strain in a campaign"
See Rules from https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/star-wars-imperial-assault/
Huh never noticed it specifically said "on his Hero sheet"
Then yeah you cannot trigger those cards that says "has suffered X strains" when they're on AS. I originally thought you combine them (so AS allows you to temporarily go beyond your endurance)
Again, I think the confusion on this comes from the card telling you to use strain tokens instead of calling them 'counters' specifically. The card represents actual stimulants, which are used to effectively negate one strain each when used - and you only have 4 to use.
Thinking of them as counters instead of strain made all the difference. Everyone was satisfied with that...
