They are all bad (for the assaulter) and your choice should depend on your defending fleet and what fleet is assaulting.

1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:

@AllWingsStandyingBy I disagree with your assertion that Ion Cannon is the best base defense and you should never lose with it.

First off, you lose all deployment advantage. Going against a DeMSU or activation padded MC80 or ISD list is going to hurt since you will be out of position. Fighter Wing gives you 2 more deployments, or at least another if you have an even amount of squads and take 3. Armed Station gives you another activation and another attack, which can be equivalent to Ion Cannon. 2 reds 2 blues vs 4 blues. You can sit near the base, it can attack in any direction, and it can attack every squad at medium range.

Second, to be able to get 6 rounds of Ion Cannon attacks, you need to move the tokens. To get a 1st round attack, you need to place 1 near your opponent, which is easy. You might get a 2nd round shot with the same token if your opponent can't get out of range. But then you need to predict where your opponent will be for round 3+4 so the 2nd token can attack. Round 5+6 are fairly easy as well if you take Strategic and place the token near your side, since you can carry the token and place it where ever you need to. But this means you are working with 1, maybe 2 tokens to try and get attacks off. And if your opponent has Strategic, they can simply move the tokens out of the way.

Third, the reason base assaults are so hard is because the defender gets to see their opponents fleet and choose what objective to play. You can't create a blanket statement "there's really no conceivable scenario where the bonus fighters or the station can hope to do anywhere near the damage the ion cannon will do" because you may not have a fleet built to utilize Strategic, or you may already have 2 BCC and Norra/Toryn/Yavaris, or you have an Interdictor and want to move the station. There are so many things that go into picking a base defense that you shouldn't just shotgun for the Ion Cannon because it's "so crazy OP good, I always win and you should always take it and if you lose then you are a bad player who doesn't know how to capitalize on objective".

Maybe you have a fleet that plays defense for your team and you have Strategic and can move the tokens around. Good for you. But not everyone plays that way. I've seen Fighter Wing win twice in my campaign. 4 Y-Wings+Norra+2 BCC is a huge threat, more so than Ion Cannon because it's a dedicated bomber fleet.

Okay.

I mean, I'm just basing my experience on my 6 Player CC campaign that's been played for six rounds, and the unanimous position of everyone involved that Ion Cannon is impossible to get through without Strategic, since Rebs and Imps alike were obliterated when trying to get through one. I do disagree that it's hard to get six rounds of shooting unless you can move the tokens as the Defender. NO, you are the Defender, the attacker has to COME TO YOU or lose the game (defender wins 0-0), so you turtle up and force them to come through the tokens if they want to roll any dice.

You and I always seem to disagree Undead Guy. I'm wondering what your experience with Armada is? How many campaigns of a CC have you played? How many Regionals have you attended this year and last year? How did you place? Have you been to any national events?

Because, either you or I are very wrong about this game...

Sorry @AllWingsStandyingBy, Undead made some decent points there.

Even if he was a noob with zero experience. What gives with those comments?

1 minute ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

Sorry @AllWingsStandyingBy, Undead made some decent points there.

Even if he was a noob with zero experience. What gives with those comments?

He just has such differing opinions on the game. Like, he says it's hard to have a shot all 6 rounds with the Ion Cannon because you don't know where your opponent is going to go. That's patently false...your opponent is either coming to come at you (through your pre-set ion field) or they aren't. So either they're taking 6 Rounds of ion shots or you're winning a 0-0 game as the Defender.

1 minute ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

You and I always seem to disagree Undead Guy. I'm wondering what your experience with Armada is? How many campaigns of a CC have you played? How many Regionals have you attended this year and last year? How did you place? Have you been to any national events?

Because, either you or I are very wrong about this game...

Hahahahahahahaha oh man that's funny. If you want to take things personal go right ahead but I'm not going to do a pissing match with you because I just don't care. I don't take "sides" on the forums. I agree or disagree with other people based on what they say or claim. I do my utmost best to not target or single out people because I view each thread objectively. I don't like when drama and what not spills into other threads.

I just disagreed with your assumption that Ion Cannon is the best in all situations. You have anecdotal evidence that it has never lost, and other people can say the same thing about winning against.

There are so many factors that go into making a decision in this game. That is why you can't say you should always do something 100% of the time or you will lose or do worse.

Neither of us are wrong about the game. We clearly have different play styles and opinions on how to optimize a fleet.

Get over yourself. Your opinion is not fact and neither is mine.

5 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Hahahahahahahaha oh man that's funny. If you want to take things personal go right ahead but I'm not going to do a pissing match with you because I just don't care. I don't take "sides" on the forums. I agree or disagree with other people based on what they say or claim. I do my utmost best to not target or single out people because I view each thread objectively. I don't like when drama and what not spills into other threads.

I just disagreed with your assumption that Ion Cannon is the best in all situations. You have anecdotal evidence that it has never lost, and other people can say the same thing about winning against.

There are so many factors that go into making a decision in this game. That is why you can't say you should always do something 100% of the time or you will lose or do worse.

Neither of us are wrong about the game. We clearly have different play styles and opinions on how to optimize a fleet.

Get over yourself. Your opinion is not fact and neither is mine.

Fair enough. Carry on good sir.

10 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Okay.

I mean, I'm just basing my experience on my 6 Player CC campaign that's been played for six rounds, and the unanimous position of everyone involved that Ion Cannon is impossible to get through without Strategic, since Rebs and Imps alike were obliterated when trying to get through one. I do disagree that it's hard to get six rounds of shooting unless you can move the tokens as the Defender. NO, you are the Defender, the attacker has to COME TO YOU or lose the game (defender wins 0-0), so you turtle up and force them to come through the tokens if they want to roll any dice.

You and I always seem to disagree Undead Guy. I'm wondering what your experience with Armada is? How many campaigns of a CC have you played? How many Regionals have you attended this year and last year? How did you place? Have you been to any national events?

Because, either you or I are very wrong about this game...

I've played one four-player all the way through, and one six-player all the way except the AOA. But that really doesn't matter, because experience in one campaign doesn't get you anywhere near having exhausted all of the possibilities of the campaign, or even most of them. You've had SIX fleet builds, with minor variations, testing this. It's pretty hard to justify any absolute claim with such a narrow base of evidence.

I myself have seen BDIC get shut down with VCXs. I got wrecked by squadron base defense when I would not have with BDIC.

Unless you can refute the lich's points specifically, your position sounds a whole lot like extrapolating too much from the results of a micro-meta and saying your experiences couldn't possibly differ from anybody else's. It reminds me very much of the "Ackbar is OP!" crowd from early W2.

5 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

So you're a theory-crafter with minimal on-table experience... got it

If that's what makes you sleep better at night.

On more reflection, I owe an apology to @Undeadguy and Ard and the rest.

You guys are right that Ion Cannon is not as powerful or problematic as I had concluded, and you've made lots of good points to that end. My apologies for the attitude and the passion, I still have much to learn about this game.

Just now, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

On more reflection, I owe an apology to @Undeadguy and Ard and the rest.

You guys are right that Ion Cannon is not as powerful or problematic as I had concluded, and you've made lots of good points to that end. My apologies for the attitude and the passion, I still have much to learn about this game.

No hard feelings.

The only base defense I've done so far was against Caldias and he had strategic so I didn't pick Ion, I picked Fighter Wing. He ended up snaking a win by 11 mov, but it was a really fun and intense game, probably the best in this CC campaign. It was also a grudge match since I barely beat him the previous week by 11 mov. For me, the Ion cannons seemed underwhelming because the last thing I want to give Caldias is even more deployment advantage, but nobody has chosen it in our campaign yet, so we haven't seen it in action.

As it was, the only way I held out as well as I did was by using JJ to trap his Assault Frigate and bring it down early.

5 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

No hard feelings.

This. I do the same thing all the time.

I went up against the Ion Canon without strategic once. I won, but it was extremely painful. Hopefully never again.

With brace and the opportunity to repair effectively, it's not so bad, but with a little luck it can seriously hurt the little guys.

Tip: rogue bombers. They weaken stuff in the squad phase, then BOOM goes the cannon start of next round.

I will say the Ion Cannon is the easiest to maximize of the 3 in general. Fighter wing requires more specific builds and smart squadron play, the base requires you to take advantage of the activation and is harder to place to get multiple strong shots unless you turtle (which works for some lists and not others)..

Ion does give you the deployment disadvantage, but it's easy to set up a gauntlet that only multiple strategic can have a chance to avoid.

If you don't have a specific plan for figher wing or base assault, take Ions.

Guys cool it.

My man tool is longer and invariably straighter.

(I know, I know, I too wish I had read this thread a few hours earlier)

42 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Guys cool it.

My man tool is longer and invariably straighter.

(I know, I know, I too wish I had read this thread a few hours earlier)

I'm sorry to hear that. You've been cruelly denied the Saracen advantage.

9 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Still, I'd rather have a bunch of useless Strategic and face off against a Station/Wing than not have any strategic and eat an ion cannon the entire game.

I am wondering how 2 strategic squadrons could be useless... your strategic squadron don't came with relay1/2? 6/8 hull? Yavaris??!!