Really ppl. Do we need to fight and bicker like babies? FFG should be informing their loyal customers who have paid and continue to pay for the materials they are producing. Some have paid almost 1000$ on the sw rpg materials alone and if a company wants to keep customers coming back the best way is to keep them happy. A simple way to do that is to state what the hold up is and come up with a way of resolving it and reducing the chances of it happening again. Another is to give free product to counter the issues that are plaguing their business model. Its simple business ppl! A company is nothing without customers so yes they do owe us something.

Of course they could always go back to the negotiation table and try to get pdf rights. That would solve a number of issues if they were successful.

I for 1 wouldn't mind having both a pdf and a hard copy of my books

Due to their reliability issues if it weren't for the star wars products I wouldn't be buying anything from ffg... what can i say I'm a sucker for star wars... but at least I don't have to worry about waisting money on genesis (... unless they want to give me a copy free)

And trollers feel free to add your voice. I've got big shoulders and a thick skin.

31 minutes ago, jayc007 said:

Really ppl. Do we need to fight and bicker like babies? FFG should be informing their loyal customers who have paid and continue to pay for the materials they are producing. Some have paid almost 1000$ on the sw rpg materials alone and if a company wants to keep customers coming back the best way is to keep them happy. A simple way to do that is to state what the hold up is and come up with a way of resolving it and reducing the chances of it happening again. Another is to give free product to counter the issues that are plaguing their business model. Its simple business ppl! A company is nothing without customers so yes they do owe us something.

Of course they could always go back to the negotiation table and try to get pdf rights. That would solve a number of issues if they were successful.

I for 1 wouldn't mind having both a pdf and a hard copy of my books

Due to their reliability issues if it weren't for the star wars products I wouldn't be buying anything from ffg... what can i say I'm a sucker for star wars... but at least I don't have to worry about waisting money on genesis (... unless they want to give me a copy free)

And trollers feel free to add your voice. I've got big shoulders and a thick skin.

Thank you, I never thought any of that unreasonable. It's business, you have a responsibility to your customer base.

51 minutes ago, jayc007 said:

Really ppl. Do we need to fight and bicker like babies? FFG should be informing their loyal customers who have paid and continue to pay for the materials they are producing. Some have paid almost 1000$ on the sw rpg materials alone and if a company wants to keep customers coming back the best way is to keep them happy. A simple way to do that is to state what the hold up is and come up with a way of resolving it and reducing the chances of it happening again. Another is to give free product to counter the issues that are plaguing their business model. Its simple business ppl! A company is nothing without customers so yes they do owe us something.

Of course they could always go back to the negotiation table and try to get pdf rights. That would solve a number of issues if they were successful.

I for 1 wouldn't mind having both a pdf and a hard copy of my books

Due to their reliability issues if it weren't for the star wars products I wouldn't be buying anything from ffg... what can i say I'm a sucker for star wars... but at least I don't have to worry about waisting money on genesis (... unless they want to give me a copy free)

And trollers feel free to add your voice. I've got big shoulders and a thick skin.

FFG did inform their "loyal customers"; they said the boat carrying the shipment of Ghosts of Dathomir was rerouted. I am sure this also has impacted Fully Operational and its release. Not sure what more is expected here. Certainly nobody other than direct stakeholders in FFG and Asmodee should expect any further information on the internal works of a privately held corporation's supply chain and the issues that supply chain may or may not be having. Incidentally, I've not seen any other delays in marquee product releases; so it sure looks to be isolated to just the Star Wars RPG for now.

I am just not sure what more from FFG people want. Its not being a troll at all, and I have to agree with HappyDaze, this sure looks to me to just be an overdeveloped sense of entitlement here. You have a right to spend your money on a product FFG produces and to receive this product as a result of that exchange. You have no further rights than that. If you don't like the end product, stop buying it.

52 minutes ago, jayc007 said:

Another is to give free product to counter the issues that are plaguing their business model.

So they're not getting any money from the books they've already had printed, and now they're supposed to give you free stuff, on top of that? Yeah, that'll keep the company in the black...

On 9/4/2017 at 1:02 PM, Gallandro said:

Also bear in mind, this summer leading up to Gencon the priority has been Genesys. With Ghosts being delayed because of customs issues the likelihood is that, and other FFG Star Wars books, are simply awaiting their turn for the printers (Ghosts will probably need to be reprinted) and they are now stuck behind Genesys. My guess is there will be a glut of FFG Star Wars books Q4 when Dawn of Rebellion hits going into Q1 2018 before we get caught up.

Q4 would be a good time to get it together and start pushing out some Star Wars books. Between Last Jedi hype and Christmas, they'll be missing out if they can't get a couple more books out then.

22 minutes ago, Magnus Arcanus said:

FFG did inform their "loyal customers"; they said the boat carrying the shipment of Ghosts of Dathomir was rerouted. I am sure this also has impacted Fully Operational and its release. Not sure what more is expected here. Certainly nobody other than direct stakeholders in FFG and Asmodee should expect any further information on the internal works of a privately held corporation's supply chain and the issues that supply chain may or may not be having. Incidentally, I've not seen any other delays in marquee product releases; so it sure looks to be isolated to just the Star Wars RPG for now.

I am just not sure what more from FFG people want. Its not being a troll at all, and I have to agree with HappyDaze, this sure looks to me to just be an overdeveloped sense of entitlement here. You have a right to spend your money on a product FFG produces and to receive this product as a result of that exchange. You have no further rights than that. If you don't like the end product, stop buying it.

Sure, that's an option, and I'm sure some people have chosen to go buy Pathfinder or D&D products that come out when they say they are etc. But that's not what was being discussed. It's not a matter of what is 'owed' as you and Daze keep coming back to. I'm not asking for the sun and the moon here but simple communication from a company to its customers. That isn't what I feel I'm owed, or what others are suggesting, but simply that as a standard business practice it is a responsible business practice to state what you can and when so you keep customers feeling like their valued and their time and concern is worth being spent on the product. I think this is the central issue that you and others have missed.

8 minutes ago, Khazadune said:

simply that as a standard business practice it is a responsible business practice to state what you can and when so you keep customers feeling like their valued and their time and concern is worth being spent on the product.

Are you looking for a relationship, or to buy books? I can't tell.

2 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

Are you looking for a relationship, or to buy books? I can't tell.

Any business relationship is just that. You can disagree with me if you like but it is the cornerstone of the business model. Otherwise companies wouldn't bother paying people to listen to complaints and to try and address customer concerns. This isn't a new "entitlement" but actually stems from the understanding that without customers a business doesn't exist.

Obviously there are some, yourself included, who disagree with this... and that's fine. You are allowed to disagree and to think of the business relationship you have with the company as merely transactional. I'm sure they prefer that. But forums like this are designed because the company wants to foster relationships.

I have now sufficiently beat the dead horse and so will leave it at that.

21 minutes ago, Magnus Arcanus said:

FFG did inform their "loyal customers"; they said the boat carrying the shipment of Ghosts of Dathomir was rerouted. I am sure this also has impacted Fully Operational and its release. Not sure what more is expected here.

I have seen a few posts by some ppl saying 'ffg said this'... that is not the same as ffg actually putting out a simple news release. " THIS HAS HAPPENED AND IS EFFECTING THESE OTHER PRODUCTS AND WE EXPECT TO BE BACK ON TRACK IN X MONTHS, WE APPOLOGISE FOR THE DELAYS AND EVERY REASONBLE STEP IS BEING TAKEN TO GET THE PRODUCTS YOU SEEK TO YOU IN A TIMELY FASION. WE APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS AND YOUR PATIENCE AND FOR THOSE WHO HAVE PREORDERED HERE IS A WEB ADVENTURE TO MAKE UP FOR THE DELAYS. FURTHER HERE IS THE NEW CREATURE STATS AND SPECIALIZATION TREES THAT ARE IN F.O...

Sorry I guess I must have missed that news article.... oh wait that's right. They still haven't released it.

And I am sorry for thinking that this a reasonable request for a company to do in this day and age. It is their company and they have a right to do as they please to some degree but I really don't think that wanting some official info from ffg means I'm suffering from a case of entitlement disorder.

...

Oh wait guess what I just heard from ffg... true story... FO and GOD and SS are available and instore today!!! Get them now before they are sold out!!!

Too late? Oh sorry... Well I can sell you my copy of SS for 1000 if you really want. I wasn't in time to get FO either.

Ok. Maybe that was too much kidding for ppl here so I do apologize for it but really any word not from ffg is not really any word at all right?

8 minutes ago, Khazadune said:

think of the business relationship you have with the company as merely transactional

It IS merely transactional. Everything that seemingly goes beyond it is done in service of the dollar.

3 minutes ago, jayc007 said:

I have seen a few posts by some ppl saying 'ffg said this'... that is not the same as ffg actually putting out a simple news release. " THIS HAS HAPPENED AND IS EFFECTING THESE OTHER PRODUCTS AND WE EXPECT TO BE BACK ON TRACK IN X MONTHS, WE APPOLOGISE FOR THE DELAYS AND EVERY REASONBLE STEP IS BEING TAKEN TO GET THE PRODUCTS YOU SEEK TO YOU IN A TIMELY FASION. WE APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS AND YOUR PATIENCE AND FOR THOSE WHO HAVE PREORDERED HERE IS A WEB ADVENTURE TO MAKE UP FOR THE DELAYS. FURTHER HERE IS THE NEW CREATURE STATS AND SPECIALIZATION TREES THAT ARE IN F.O...

Sorry I guess I must have missed that news article.... oh wait that's right. They still haven't released it.

And I am sorry for thinking that this a reasonable request for a company to do in this day and age. It is their company and they have a right to do as they please to some degree but I really don't think that wanting some official info from ffg means I'm suffering from a case of entitlement disorder.

...

Oh wait guess what I just heard from ffg... true story... FO and GOD and SS are available and instore today!!! Get them now before they are sold out!!!

Too late? Oh sorry... Well I can sell you my copy of SS for 1000 if you really want. I wasn't in time to get FO either.

Ok. Maybe that was too much kidding for ppl here so I do apologize for it but really any word not from ffg is not really any word at all right?

They are under no obligation to do so. and likely due to contracts are very limited in what they can say. Having worked for a PR company I know that often times lawyers make keeping people informed a bit sticky liability wise. It is not as simple as you think it is.

5 minutes ago, jayc007 said:

WE EXPECT TO BE BACK ON TRACK IN X MONTHS

So after this massive delay they should announce another deadline they can't be sure they'll hit, when experience shows that it will be taken as a guarantee by fans? That's another bad idea. I much prefer the Valve model - it'll be out when it's done. Everything else is just faith.

10 minutes ago, jayc007 said:

I have seen a few posts by some ppl saying 'ffg said this'... that is not the same as ffg actually putting out a simple news release. " THIS HAS HAPPENED AND IS EFFECTING THESE OTHER PRODUCTS AND WE EXPECT TO BE BACK ON TRACK IN X MONTHS, WE APPOLOGISE FOR THE DELAYS AND EVERY REASONBLE STEP IS BEING TAKEN TO GET THE PRODUCTS YOU SEEK TO YOU IN A TIMELY FASION. WE APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS AND YOUR PATIENCE AND FOR THOSE WHO HAVE PREORDERED HERE IS A WEB ADVENTURE TO MAKE UP FOR THE DELAYS. FURTHER HERE IS THE NEW CREATURE STATS AND SPECIALIZATION TREES THAT ARE IN F.O...

Sorry I guess I must have missed that news article.... oh wait that's right. They still haven't released it.

And I am sorry for thinking that this a reasonable request for a company to do in this day and age. It is their company and they have a right to do as they please to some degree but I really don't think that wanting some official info from ffg means I'm suffering from a case of entitlement disorder.

...

Oh wait guess what I just heard from ffg... true story... FO and GOD and SS are available and instore today!!! Get them now before they are sold out!!!

Too late? Oh sorry... Well I can sell you my copy of SS for 1000 if you really want. I wasn't in time to get FO either.

Ok. Maybe that was too much kidding for ppl here so I do apologize for it but really any word not from ffg is not really any word at all right?

You really are taking this quite personally. If you pre-ordered you haven't been charged (at least I haven't been), and even if you had been simply cancel your order... no harm, no foul. Do they owe customers an explanation??? Not really, and as cagey as Disney is with what their license holders are allowed to say they may be somewhat limited. Sure they could release some vague comment about the product line but since January the reality is we've had two book releases, and if memory serves, a couple of new card set releases in addition to the gaming mat. Add to that the numerous reprints of out of print books this year, and they've most certainly been releasing product., I'm sorry you're upset about the delay of two books, but them's the breaks.

Yancy

5 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

They are under no obligation to do so. and likely due to contracts are very limited in what they can say. Having worked for a PR company I know that often times lawyers make keeping people informed a bit sticky liability wise. It is not as simple as you think it is.

Hence the reason I said they are able to do as they please to some degree. I personally think it has something to do with Disney and not some fabled shipping company going under but hey, who am I to say

4 minutes ago, Gallandro said:

You really are taking this quite personally. If you pre-ordered you haven't been charged (at least I haven't been), and even if you had been simply cancel your order... no harm, no foul. Do they owe customers an explanation??? Not really, and as cagey as Disney is with what their license holders are allowed to say they may be somewhat limited. Sure they could release some vague comment about the product line but the reality is we've had two book releases, and if memory serves, a couple of new card set releases in addition to the gaming mat. Add to that the numerous reprints of out of print books this year, and they've most certainly been releasing product., I'm sorry you're upset about the delay of two books, but thems the breaks.

Yancy

I can admit I am looking forward to FO but I'm not taking it personally... furthermore i haven't preordered the book. That doesnt mean i dont want to know whats up and feel it is reasonable to ask. I guess my attempt at a lighthearted expression of my point of view was not terribly clear.

1 minute ago, jayc007 said:

Hence the reason I said they are able to do as they please to some degree. I personally think it has something to do with Disney and not some fabled shipping company going under but hey, who am I to say

If it was something to do with Disney they would not have continued to announce new stuff. Like the game mat and other books that are in development and announced. No. It is not Disney. It is most likely the shipping company that went belly up. Many other companies that had shipments with this company had product mid shipment not arrive due to the company going belly up. Evidence points to this as the problem. As the ship being diverted fits this scenario. Still getting new announcements fits this scenario. Also this kind of thing has happened before. When the LA dock workers went on strike we had a similar thing happen. The stuff got stuck on ship waiting for the dockworker strike to be resolved. and then the huge backlog in customs.

1 minute ago, Daeglan said:

If it was something to do with Disney they would not have continued to announce new stuff. Like the game mat and other books that are in development and announced. No. It is not Disney. It is most likely the shipping company that went belly up. Many other companies that had shipments with this company had product mid shipment not arrive due to the company going belly up. Evidence points to this as the problem. As the ship being diverted fits this scenario. Still getting new announcements fits this scenario. Also this kind of thing has happened before. When the LA dock workers went on strike we had a similar thing happen. The stuff got stuck on ship waiting for the dockworker strike to be resolved. and then the huge backlog in customs.

Ok so ill assume it's going to be a strike situation and we will be waiting 2.5 years for the book to 'arrive' in N.A.

Thank you. That was all WE were asking for I believe? - looks around at the others and nods -

Chill people. We're going to be waiting a while. Freaking out isn't going to help.

if you want to buy other books from other companies in the meantime, there's nothing wrong with that. It's not like you're cheating on FFG.

Lets just chill. I swear nerds get less and less emotionally healthy these days.

14 minutes ago, jayc007 said:

Ok so ill assume it's going to be a strike situation and we will be waiting 2.5 years for the book to 'arrive' in N.A.

Thank you. That was all WE were asking for I believe? - looks around at the others and nods -

We did not wait 2.5 years for the books in the strike. go read the statistics and trends thread. you are panicking needlessly. This attitude is not helping.

19 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

We did not wait 2.5 years for the books in the strike. go read the statistics and trends thread. you are panicking needlessly. This attitude is not helping.

I'm sorry if it sounded like I was panicked. It was actually supposed to be a hint of sarcasm with no offense intended towards the quoted poster. I don't believe it will be 2.5 years. But without any info from ffg everything else is a guess and we can't even begin to guess when it will be. Hence 2.5 years is a concrete abstract number which is just as accurate as 12.25.17 and the kids can go spend their Christmas cash elsewhere.

My point continues to be that it is not entitlement to want a news update as to the delays nor is it unreasonable. If ffg wanted to they could say something but they choose not to. Their call, but some paying customers are unhappy and with valid reasons.

Just now, jayc007 said:

I'm sorry if it sounded like I was panicked. It was actually supposed to be a hint of sarcasm with no offense intended towards the quoted poster. I don't believe it will be 2.5 years. But without any info from ffg everything else is a guess and we can't even begin to guess when it will be. Hence 2.5 years is a concrete abstract number which is just as accurate as 12.25.17 and the kids can go spend their Christmas cash elsewhere.

My point continues to be that it is not entitlement to want a news update as to the delays nor is it unreasonable. If ffg wanted to they could say something but they choose not to. Their call, but some paying customers are unhappy and with valid reasons.

yeah except we have gotten info from FFG. We have gotten new book announcements and have been told that the shipment got diverted. And is being reprinted. This is nothing like what happened with Saga.

Printing in a low cost of living/low wage country simply means FFG provide a better quality product for the price point they want to hit. Anyone in Manufacturing knows this is an unavoidable truth in the modern world.

39 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

Printing in a low cost of living/low wage country simply means FFG provide a better quality product for the price point they want to hit. Anyone in Manufacturing knows this is an unavoidable truth in the modern world.

Much as ppl don't want to hear it you do speak truth

4 hours ago, Magnus Arcanus said:

I am just not sure what more from FFG people want. Its not being a troll at all, and I have to agree with HappyDaze, this sure looks to me to just be an overdeveloped sense of entitlement here.

I wasn't being a troll, but I did go over the line into full jack-hole mode. I'm more than a little irritated right now with people with entitlement issues as I prepare for Irma's approach.

20 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

I wasn't being a troll, but I did go over the line into full jack-hole mode. I'm more than a little irritated right now with people with entitlement issues as I prepare for Irma's approach.

Take care if your in the path or close, I know there's nothing we can do to help but we will still be thinking of you all.