28 minutes ago, penpenpen said:

Is there anything that stops you from building your speed 4, sil 4 ship and leaving a hardpoint for the high output ion turbine attachment to bump it to 5?

I mean, the baseline for the Falcon is a speed 3 YT-1300. The rest is aftermarket modifications.

Per RAW it appears that the hard cap on speed for custom built ships can not be exceeded. Now, that may not include hard point upgrades but it reads, “... there are still limits to how fast a craft of a certain size can go. The speed of craft built using these rules can never exceed the value listed for its silhouette. If various factors would indicate a higher speed, use the values listed here instead.”

I think most GM’s will not hold that to aftermarket modifications, but the way it is written is pretty clear on placing firm limits.

2 hours ago, Desslok said:

Well, I took my recently retired Goddess among engineers and just spent the evening rolling up a Speeder Bike with. No, to call this a speeder bike would be a disservice. Nay, this be the Excalibur of vehicles! Your mortal rump is not worthy to sit upon this magnificent ride!

Kidding aside, that's actually a pretty badassed bike I was able to build. Okay, I did do it with a character at the end of her gaming shelf life (plus a couple hundred more points just for fun to buy the new shipwright tree), so that's an extreme example - but I think even just a moderately skilled technician/outlaw tech/engineer should be able to build a pretty nice vehicle.

The lower the silhouette the more powerful the crafting is, which is a good way to ensure power creep is contained, but freighters and above are in a weird place. If you can change the silhouette down then you can achieve greater handling and speed generally but there may be an argument for losing other key features. Speeder bikes and fighters are able to achieve pretty stellar results, but that’s where it really drops off. I would have liked to see more in line with crafting gear than with crafting Droids and that those bonuses you can accrue can actually result in a superior product worth the massive investment in time, money and XP. Remember, crafting is largely the main thing some engineers and technicians do for their party. Compared with other classes at the same XP investments your not really worth it if you are building these ships after 15-20 odd sessions.

What about crafting ship weapons or installing ship weapons into a crafted ship... are there any real guidelines or charts for that aspect of vehicles / ships?

Yeah I’m slightly confused when it comes to adding weapons as it doesn’t really mention it in the rules as far as I can tell

7 hours ago, Swordbreaker said:

How many ranks of Powerful Blast between Sapper, Saboteur, and Demolitionist? Six or seven? With that, Master Grenadier, Master Demolitionist, and Strong Arm, grenades become pretty terrifying.

Add Gunslinger to double the damage ??

Oh, add some ranks of Point Blank too to improve the base damage

I have to say the spoilers here have done a great job of lessening my interest in this product.

7 hours ago, jayc007 said:

What about crafting ship weapons or installing ship weapons into a crafted ship... are there any real guidelines or charts for that aspect of vehicles / ships?

I would assume you just pay for the weapons as normal, isnt there something in the core rules about them taking 1HP for each turret/weapon or somesuch ?

Yes there is, "Upgraded Weapons" attachment/mod... 1 HP for adding a new weapon system.

20 minutes ago, Gelanin said:

I would assume you just pay for the weapons as normal, isnt there something in the core rules about them taking 1HP for each turret/weapon or somesuch ?

Yes there is, "Upgraded Weapons" attachment/mod... 1 HP for adding a new weapon system.

7 hours ago, jayc007 said:

What about crafting ship weapons or installing ship weapons into a crafted ship... are there any real guidelines or charts for that aspect of vehicles / ships?

Basically it’s as the above comment or said only when you are dealing with an existing ship you can swap out its engine or hull for the potential to gain hardpoints. This might allow a ship to then get access to more weapons.

because the next question will be how many hard Points. You get 2 for engines and 3 for hull but your GM can veto it. Generally you are gonna end up using these in order to replace them, I don’t know of a single engine upgrade that’s less than 2 hardpoints.

I take back everything I said about the crafting not being worth it. Just mocked up a Destroyer and was able to build it for 90 million less than it’s listed price in about 200 days. Not bad, all things considered, and that’s without applying any of the talents etc.

Oh man, I had delusions of grandeur and pre-ordered all four of the upcoming books so now Dawn of Rebellion and Fully Operational are waiting for Cyphers and Masks and Unlimited Power . So tempting to break it into two orders to get my mitts on this book. My Wookiee demo specialist will be drooling over the Sapper tree.

Based on the crafting rules, how would this sync with the podracer crafting/customization? If I ever get to play a PC, I kinda want to try a Racer/Shipwright with Manipulate.

Has anyone used the new rules, to reverse engineer say an xwing? Just to see what kind of rules the Beings at Incom had to face?

Is there an ARC-170 statted yet?!?!

20 hours ago, Khazadune said:

The lower the silhouette the more powerful the crafting is, which is a good way to ensure power creep is contained, but freighters and above are in a weird place. If you can change the silhouette down then you can achieve greater handling and speed generally but there may be an argument for losing other key features. Speeder bikes and fighters are able to achieve pretty stellar results, but that’s where it really drops off. I would have liked to see more in line with crafting gear than with crafting Droids and that those bonuses you can accrue can actually result in a superior product worth the massive investment in time, money and XP. Remember, crafting is largely the main thing some engineers and technicians do for their party. Compared with other classes at the same XP investments your not really worth it if you are building these ships after 15-20 odd sessions.

The weapons and equipment was handled pretty well in Edge of the Empire Special Modifications. I don't see the need to redo it in this book.

23 minutes ago, NonekiTheHutt said:

The weapons and equipment was handled pretty well in Edge of the Empire Special Modifications. I don't see the need to redo it in this book.

You misunderstand me. What I meant that I would have liked to have seen that the rules for crafting ships followed more in the tradition of crafting gear than in the tradition of crafting Droids. I.E. crafting the entire thing with a single check and tree, as opposed to doing one for Frame, engine and hull. But after reading the rules more closely I actually think that they did a decent job with it. I should have looked at it more closely before commenting.

One of my biggest pet peeves with the droid crafting was that programming was not as easy to earn Schematics for, so you tended to end with a lot of negative traits. But I am digressing.

Does anyone else think that ion torpedoes being restricted to silhouette 4+ is a little weird? The only ships that we know have launched them were the Y-Wings.

I figured out how to build my dream(s) ship by RAW to get around the pesky silhouette speed limits. The idea is to make a speed 5 silhouette 5 ship (so it's just as fast as tie fighters), that looks like a consular class (cause it's cool) complete with salon pod. Assuming the character "Whistler" (because he whistles binary) is a human smuggler: gambler/shipwright/scientist with brawn 3, agility 4, cunning 2, intelligence 7, willpower 3, presence 2 (cybernetic brain implant, agility enhancing arm crafted using special modification rules, the avionics interface, biofeedback regulator, and a crafted cybernetic implant that improves mechanics) so yeah he has a 6 yellow 1 green mechanics check. Note that the shipwright talent push the specs, means the normally speed 5 dream ship will be able to out run tie fighters, gambler because he counts cards at sabaac (he's figured out how to back calculate the random seed in the randomizer in sabaac cards) and unmatched fortune so he can pull of the crazy rolls reliably. Assume this guy has worked for the big starship corps and has gotten the schematics and assembly plans difficulty down to simple so it's not so unbelievable.

So start with an IR-3F class light frigate from page 267 of force and Destiny core, it's a pretty cool ship, sil 5, speed 4, has the cargo 1800 enc, extreme sensors, smallish crew, good weapons, good shields, except no hyperdrive , armor is only 3, and only 2 hard points. A less ambitious fellow could slap on high output ion turbines to get it up to speed 5, and a (fully modded class x4 -> class x0.5 with backup x10) hyperdrive module from the bottom of page 82 of fully operational and have a pretty cool ship. But whistler is going for the gold (or should I say phrik) for the ship he's using to tour the galaxy. He's going to strip of the hull for +3 hard points (sidebar at the top of page 79 of fully operational) and put on a sleek carapace (with all the mods) for 2 hard points which puts the ship at handling 3, 2/2/2/3 defense, and armor 1, for the hull crafting check he got the extra hard point, 5x layered plating, integrated system (either high output ion turbines or a hyperdrive), and too tough to hurt (massive 1). Since the IR-3F already had speed 4, and you didn't touch that part of the ship i believe it's exempt by RAW from the pesky silhouette speed limits on page 78 of fully operational (you're not crafting a ship you're replacing a component, the hull), and because you replaced the hull it now looks like a consular (the consular and I3-3F actually have a very similar structure, e.g. raised bridge fairly narrow). So at this point the ship is at speed 5, handling +3, armor 6, hyper drive x0.5/x10, and has 3 hard points to spend. 2 of those hard points are going to be spent on a retrofitted hanger bay, i.e. where the consular cruiser's salon pod clips in, it's sort of a hanger bay and can hold without mods a sil 3 craft (and a sil 2 speeder) and as we know from disciples of harmony, the salon pod is silhouette 3. Additional mods on the hanger bay can be used for a garage of land vehicles. For the assembly he used distinctive style, customized controls (customized to the fully modded pilot droid brain), improved safety features, and masterful construction. By the way the ship has the (fully modded) pilot, astrogation, and gunnery droid brains and whistler can wirelessly direct them via his brain implant's comlink, also an encrypted computer and any other 0 hp mods, And you have 1 hard point left over, which gets spent on luxury passenger compartments. And then upgrade the two twin turret mounted medium laser cannons to quads and maybe upgrade the two twin turbolasers to quads too (no hard point cost for the weapon upgrades)

Then whistler turns his attention to making a salon pod that's a hyperspace capable shuttle/drop ship, and that's going to be done with a more straight forward application of the crafting rules.

He's going to start with a shuttle frame, sil 4, ht 25, short, sensor range, 50 enc, 10 passengers, 10 hp but he's going to use an elegant design to get it down to sil 3. Extra hard point, too big to hurt (massive 1), modifiable, reinforced construction.

For engines he's going with a modded ion turbines engine, so speed 2, 3/0 defense, and 30 system strain. On the crafting check, get 4 enhanced output (so speed 6), enhanced power to the reflectors (both rear so now 3/2 defense), and fine tuned (makes piloting around hazards a black die less risky). That cost 3 hard points which means it's got 8 left.

For the hull he's going with an expanded capacity holds costing 4 hp fully modded for armor, and encumbrance, which means 3 armor, -2 handling, and 105 enc total. But for the crafting check he gets the extra hard point and integrated system (fully modded class 4 hyperdrive), to tough to hurt (so the sil 3 shuttle has massive 2 now), x3 layered plating, and 5 maneuvering fins, bringing the armor to 6 and handling to +3, so it now has 5 hp left.

Assembly... improved safety features, customized controls (again customized to the fully modded pilot droid brain) distinctive style, and masterful construction. With quad medium laser cannons on a ventral turret. Note that because it's ventral it can be fired while docked with the formerly IR-3F now masquerading as a Consular. That puts it at 3 hard points. Get all 3 (fully modded) droid brains (and all other zero up mods) again (no hp cost, oh and an extra attack, extra useful when docked with the "consular"), fully modded advanced targetting array, luxury passenger compartments, and 1 hp to spare.

It's a 2 level shuttle with the cargo hold on the bottom.

And boom, there it is/they are, my dream ship(s), when life hands you space lemons you make nuclear powered space lemons.

BTW because of the "distinctive style" this is a modernized looking consular, it's sleeker, and the salon pod isn't quite a cylinder, it's somewhere between an egg and a saucer (it's wider than the traditional salon pod).

The hull of both ships is fluffed as havod alloy doped with phrik (the phrik doping explains the 6 armor), and the havod allow makes it a dark red color (without paint) so kind of diplomatic color looking, but the "phrik doping" makes it a glossy/shiny dark red, which is part of the "distinctive style".

I haven't added up the costs but I would guess it's under 2 million (cost of the base IR-3F is only 1 million) which makes it quite a bit cheaper than the consular in the aor core book, and it would totally wreck the baseline consular.

And using the workshop rules from special modifications so whistler has a kick as workshop on the "Redshift Raven" probably should add a Rommie (gene Roddenberry's starship andromeda) hrd droid avatar of the ship to keep him company.

24 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

I figured out how to build my dream(s) ship by RAW to get around the pesky silhouette speed limits. The idea is to make a speed 5 silhouette 5 ship (so it's just as fast as tie fighters), that looks like a consular class (cause it's cool) complete with salon pod. Assuming the character "Whistler" (because he whistles binary) is a human smuggler: gambler/shipwright/scientist with brawn 3, agility 4, cunning 2, intelligence 7, willpower 3, presence 2 (cybernetic brain implant, agility enhancing arm crafted using special modification rules, the avionics interface, biofeedback regulator, and a crafted cybernetic implant that improves mechanics) so yeah he has a 6 yellow 1 green mechanics check, gambler because he counts cards at sabaac (he's figured out how to back calculate the random seed in the randomizer) and unmatched fortune so he can pull of the crazy rolls reliably. Assume this guy has worked for the big starship corps and has gotten the schematics and assembly plans difficulty down to simple so it's not so unbelievable.

So start with an IR-3F class light frigate from page 267 of force and Destiny core, it's a pretty cool ship, sil 5, speed 4, has the cargo 1800 enc, extreme sensors, smallish crew, good weapons, shields, except no hyperdrive , armor is only 3, and only 2 hard points. A less ambitious fellow could slap on high output ion turbines to get it up to speed 5, and a (fully modded class x4 -> class x0.5 with backup x10) hyperdrive module from the bottom of page 82 of fully operational and have a pretty cool ship. But whistler is going for the gold (or should I say phrik). He's going to strip of the hull for +3 hard points (sidebar at the top of page 79 of fully operational) and put on a sleek carapace (with all the mods) for 2 hard points which puts the ship at handling 3, 2/2/2/3 defense, and armor 1, for the hull crafting check he got the extra hard point, 5x layered plating, integrated system (either high output ion turbines or a hyperdrive), and too tough to hurt, with leftovers spent on maneuvering fins. Since the IR-3F already had speed 4, and you didn't touch that part of the ship i believe it's exempt by RAW from the pesky silhouette speed limits on page 78 of fully operational (you're not crafting a ship you're replacing a component), and because you replaced the hull it now looks like a consular (the consular and I3-3F actually have a very similar structure). So at this point the ship is at speed 5, handling +3, armor 6, hyper drive x0.5/x10, and has 3 hard points to spend. 2 of those hard points are going to be spent on a retrofitted hanger bay, i.e. where the consular cruiser's salon pod clips in, it's sort of a hanger bay and can hold without mods a sil 3 craft (and a sil 2 speeder) and as we know from disciples of harmony, the salon pod is silhouette 3. Additional mods on the hanger bay can be used for a garage of land vehicles. For the assembly he used distinctive style, customized controls, improved safety features, and masterful construction. By the way the ship has the pilot, astrogation, and gunnery droid brains and whistler can wirelessly direct them via the brain implant's comlink, also an encrypted computer and any other 0 hp mods, And you have 1 hard point left over, which gets spent on luxury passenger compartments. And then upgrade the two twin turret mounted medium laser cannons to quads and maybe upgrade the two twin turbolasers to quads too (no hard point cost for the weapon upgrades)

Then whistler turns his attention to making a salon pod that's a hyperspace capable shuttle/drop ship, and that's going to be done with a more straight forward application of the crafting rules.

He's going to start with a shuttle frame, sil 4, it 25, short, sensor range, 50 enc, 10 passengers, 10 hp but he's going to use an elegant design to get it down to sil 3. Extra hard point, too big to hurt (massive 1), modifiable, reinforced construction.

For engines he's going with a modded ion turbines engine, so speed 2, 3/0 defense, and 30 system strain. On the crafting check, get 4 enhanced output (so speed 6), enhanced power to the reflectors (both rear so no 3/2 defense), and fine tuned. That cost 3 hard points which means it's got 8 left.

For the hull he's going with an expanded capacity holds costing 4 hp fully modded for armor, and encumbrance, which means 3 armor, -2 handling, and 105 enc total. But for the crafting check he gets the extra hard point and integrated system (fully modded class 4 hyperdrive), to tough to hurt (so the sil 3 shuttle has massive 2 now), x3 layered plating, and 5 maneuvering fins, bringing the armor to 6 and handling to +3, so it now has 5 up left.

Assembly... improved safety features, customized controls, distinctive style, and masterful construction. With quad medium laser cannons on a ventral turret. Note that because it's ventral it can be fired while docked with the formerly IR-3F now masquerading as a Consular. That puts it at 3 hard points. Get all 3 droid brains again (no no cost, oh and an extra attack, extra useful when docked with "consular"), fully modded advanced targetting array, luxury passenger compartments, and 1 no to spare.

It's a 2 level shuttle with the cargo hold on the bottom.

And boom, there it is/they are, my dream ship(s), when life hands you space lemons you make nuclear powered space lemons.

BTW because of the distinctive style this is a modernized looking consular, sleeker, and the salon pod isn't quite a cylinder, it's somewhere between an egg and a saucer (it's wider than the traditional salon pod).

The hull of both ships is fluffed as havod alloy doped with phrik (the phrik doping explains the 6 armor), and the havod allow makes it a dark red color (without paint) so kind of diplomatic color looking, but the "phrik doping" makes it a glossy/shiny dark red, which is part of the distinctive style.

I haven't added up the costs but I would guess it's under 2 million (cost of the base IR-3F is only 1 million) which makes it quite a bit cheaper than the consular in the air core book.

There’s a lot to unpack there and it’s to late for me to point out all the things that I believe are not per RAW but the first that I will point to is that I do not believe you are able to “Assemble” a ship for which you have swapped components, you merely swap out the hull and that’s that. Also, the limits on speed per silhouette are written pretty diffinitively. I haven’t sat down to look at Defense zones as it’s almost 3 am but I don’t believe that you’d be pulling in that kind of Defense zone capability with what you are suggesting. Again, I’d have to sit down and unpack each piece but I think there are some leaps there that a GM would be quick to quash. Just my two cents.

2 minutes ago, Khazadune said:

There’s a lot to unpack there and it’s to late for me to point out all the things that I believe are not per RAW but the first that I will point to is that I do not believe you are able to “Assemble” a ship for which you have swapped components, you merely swap out the hull and that’s that. Also, the limits on speed per silhouette are written pretty diffinitively. I haven’t sat down to look at Defense zones as it’s almost 3 am but I don’t believe that you’d be pulling in that kind of Defense zone capability with what you are suggesting. Again, I’d have to sit down and unpack each piece but I think there are some leaps there that a GM would be quick to quash. Just my two cents.

No assembly means it's DEFINITELY not crafting, it's modding a stock ship, so the speed limitations on crafted ships definitely doesn't apply. The 2/2/2/2 shields come from the IR-3F, and it's engines aren't getting replaced.

Yeah I get that few GMs would allow this. But I homebrewed a similar ship that wasn't quite this powerful, for the PCs in my now shelved campaign.

11 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

No assembly means it's DEFINITELY not crafting, it's modding a stock ship, so the speed limitations on crafted ships definitely doesn't apply. The 2/2/2/2 shields come from the IR-3F, and it's engines aren't getting replaced.

Yeah I get that few GMs would allow this. But I homebrewed a similar ship that wasn't quite this powerful, for the PCs in my now shelved campaign.

It doesn’t say that the speed restrictions are specific only to crafting and my mention of assembly was bc I read that you included rolling on that table for its bonuses, which you wouldn’t be able to do with a stock ship.

21 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

No assembly means it's DEFINITELY not crafting, it's modding a stock ship, so the speed limitations on crafted ships definitely doesn't apply. The 2/2/2/2 shields come from the IR-3F, and it's engines aren't getting replaced.

Yeah I get that few GMs would allow this. But I homebrewed a similar ship that wasn't quite this powerful, for the PCs in my now shelved campaign.

Well without having the book (And thereby the rules) it sounds impressive... perhaps too impressive?

And as for the career specs... don' forget the gamblers extra successes and advantages and triumphs from the all or nothing talents.

18 minutes ago, jayc007 said:

Well without having the book (And thereby the rules) it sounds impressive... perhaps too impressive?

And as for the career specs... don' forget the gamblers extra successes and advantages and triumphs from the all or nothing talents.

But if the schematics and assembly instructions have reduced the difficulty to simple it means you're rolling against the one purple from the double or nothing talent.

Something else that's cool

Star fighter, elegant design to get it to silhouette 2, extra hard point (up to 8 hp), integrated improvement which reduces the crew from 1 to zero, reinforced construction a bunch of times (to increase hull trauma). Modded ion turbine engine (speed 2, defense 3/0, strain 20, down to 5 hp ), enhanced output x3 (speed 5), enhanced power to reflectors (defense 3/2), easy to repair, too big to hurt (massive 1), fine tuned.

Fully modded sleek carapace (armor 1, shields 3/3, handling+3), extra hard point (6 hp total), layered plating x2 (armor 3), integrated system (hyperdrive: comes with astromech droid socket), too tough to hurt ( massive 2)

Assembly. Customized controls (for the astromech), distinctive style, gunnery droid brain (fully upgraded), advanced targeting array (down to 5 hp), quad light blaster canon on a turret down to 3 hp) , all terrain legs (special modifications page 65, down to 1 hp), amphibious modification (down to zero hp). Basically a vulture droid mech suit for an astromech droid. A freighter can carry 2 of these externally on docking clamps, the fully modded hanger bay has 10 enc minus 3 for the salon pod equals 7, leave 3 for air speeders. So there's another 2, the ship can have 4 of these things as a fighter escort.

What pre-made starships and vehicles are in it? Anything interesting like the long desired Pelta-class frigate?

1 hour ago, LithiumBlossom said:

What pre-made starships and vehicles are in it? Anything interesting like the long desired Pelta-class frigate?

Nope, first thing I looked for wasn't there. The ships are in the same vain as special modifications ships, and they all seem to be new to Star Wars.