I had a discussion with some fellow players yesterday about the state of X-wing, power creep etc. After a long debate we ended up in the above question: What would need to be banned to make X-wing great again.

Our discussion ended up with a total agreement that Push the limit should be banned and we more or less agreed that Attanni mindlink, Tie/x7 and Emperor Palpatine should go too.

However, the discussion (as these discussions tend to be) was a bit blunt. What we really want to talk about is what we want the game to be about.

So thats pretty much the essence of my question; What do you want Star Wars: X-wing to be about and what needs to be removed from the game in order to give you to get you there?

I can think of several things, but I don't think a ban list is the right answer.

A policy of active and effective errata should be, including fiddling with point values.

Don't ban things, don't issue fix cards, change the text and values of the existing cards to make them work right.

WOn't happen though. FFG have repeatedly shown that this kind of errata isn't something they're interested in except in the most extreme cases (i.e. U Boats).

Banning PTL is a bit too much. It could be made unique, to prevent a whole list with repositioning Shenanigans. Palpatine is a great card, but I don't think he's OP. X7 however was a complete turnaround for the defender which made it almost auto-include on the ship.

8 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I can think of several things, but I don't think a ban list is the right answer.

A policy of active and effective errata should be, including fiddling with point values.

Don't ban things, don't issue fix cards, change the text and values of the existing cards to make them work right.

WOn't happen though. FFG have repeatedly shown that this kind of errata isn't something they're interested in except in the most extreme cases (i.e. U Boats).

Well, I wasn't necessarily thinking only about what FFG is willing to do. Look at Magics Peasant format. Community invented and rotated into Wizards own formats. It is more a matter of making said formats stick and get vital. And if nothing else, it can be a casual competitive format.

If i were to dream, it would be a format where pretty much every ship is playable again.

Whining

This game IS great.

less ban, more study.

PtL - no way. No idea why you included this one.

Attani - attani is not the problem. Manaroo is.

Palpi - strong, but 8 pts and limited to 3 ships only. Not as op as it used to be.

X7 - ban? Never. It gave Defenders life again. Nerfed to be an action? Yes.

I agree. There are various cards and pilots that could be better balanced, but none that should be banned.

I would personally ban threads like this from the forums. I think seeing a lot less negativity about how broken the game is (which happens cyclically) would make the game great again.

I think squad-building for tournament play should be much more tightly restricted. Leave the anything-goes 100-point matches for casual play if people really enjoy that sort of thing. In the real arena, I want players to know that they can't hit below the belt.

I wouldn't ban anything.

I'd nerf some power cards like Zuckuss (can't use it if stressed) and Palpatine (only works at Range 1-3).

I'd make some stuff unique: Push the Limit and TIE/x7 are good candidates.

I'd set a limit of 1 turreted ship per squad, counting primary weapon turrets and [turret] upgrades.

Everything else (pilots and upgrades) should be limited to 2-of-a-kind maximum.

34 minutes ago, Xerandar said:

Whining

4 minutes ago, Smutpedler said:

I would personally ban threads like this from the forums. I think seeing a lot less negativity about how broken the game is (which happens cyclically) would make the game great again.

Seems you both can't tell the difference between constructive criticism and whining/negativity.

And the only way forward for you is to whine.

Let the grownups talk.

12 minutes ago, Smutpedler said:

I would personally ban threads like this from the forums. I think seeing a lot less negativity about how broken the game is (which happens cyclically) would make the game great again.

The game is fine. It's the meta that is quite one-sided. But if you're just playing for fun, you don't care about the meta. Nobody banned Michael Jordan from playing Basketball, either. So he won 6 championships between 1991 and 1998. And then his time was over.

1 minute ago, debiler said:

The game is fine. It's the meta that is quite one-sided. But if you're just playing for fun, you don't care about the meta. Nobody banned Michael Jordan from playing Basketball, either. So he won 6 championships between 1991 and 1998. And then his time was over.

Kinda my point...

WRT whining; Well, thats one opinion for sure and I sort of respect that. However, my big and real question in this thread that I also put in the OP was " What do you want Star Wars: X-wing to be about ..." as in what type of play skill do you prefer to be dominant.

For my personal view, I feel that the abundance of post-move adjustments (not all of it, some aces should be able to do it, but the sheer amount) and inflation in action economy moves the game away from what I prefer. Its a bit too much a fight of mechanics and (ab)use of them then then flying skill if you see what I mean. And that is what I would prefer the game to be about.

So if I may ask, please be constructive instead of destructive and the chance of going somewhere interesting with this increases.

And another point: Yes you are right. The game is fine, its the meta that is one-sided.

Squad upgrades to bring generics up near top-end named pilot efficiencies.

game is pretty great right now tho

57 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

This game IS great.

That.

On the other side, if it's only a matter of "things I would like"... Then, if all turrets were mobile arc, if Palp was epic (and Tarkin normal), if X7 gave a free action instead a free token, if big ships has some kind off mobility penalty, and if the stress also denied any "given token" (manaroo - mindlink)... I probably enjoy something like this, or squadron rules, a cool campaign.

56 minutes ago, DagobahDave said:

Seems you both can't tell the difference between constructive criticism and whining/negativity.

And the only way forward for you is to whine.

Let the grownups talk.

What a puerile post. One beset by logical fallacies.

1 hour ago, DagobahDave said:

Seems you both can't tell the difference between constructive criticism and whining/negativity.

And the only way forward for you is to whine.

Let the grownups talk.

Because condescension is so grown up

1 hour ago, Ram said:

So if I may ask, please be constructive instead of destructive and the chance of going somewhere interesting with this increases.

And another point: Yes you are right. The game is fine, its the meta that is one-sided.

The thread tittle is:

1 hour ago, debiler said:

The game is fine. It's the meta that is quite one-sided.

See, I would argue even that point. The meta is in the healthiest position it's been since the game started, with some of the largest variety in lists to be seen.

Sure, people have their favourites, and people trawl the internet for "the most effective netlist", and Paratanni seems to be the current flavour of the month given it's success so far in the System Opens. But it's not the only successful list out there.

Rey/Norra is building up a head of steam. Commonwealth Defenders (and triple X7s) are still well represented. K-Wings, Arcs Imperial Aces... we've seen TIE Swarms and even Quad HWKs doing well in recent weeks. Kanan/Biggs is a tough nut to crack, and Thug Life is reliable as it always was. And we've barely scratched the surface with Wave 10 yet.

It comes down to individual players being willing to experiment more than it does the ships and upgrades in the game. A lot of players will jump on the latest bandwagon when it comes to competitive events, a lot of others will want to play with their newest toys.

But the game is nowhere near as stale as it was during the Phantom Menace of Wave 4, or the Fat Turret chaos of Wave 5. Or even before that, with Biggs Walks the Dogs ad TIE Swarms.

TL;DR? You've never had it so good. Now go get creative!

To make X-Wing great again?

We need to build a wall, and put all the aliens on the other side of it. They're bad hombres.

Imperial jobs for imperial people!

2 hours ago, Vitalis said:

Attani - attani is not the problem. Manaroo is.

"Overall this is data on 523 ships from 186 squads in 26 Regionals.
50% of ALL Scum & Villainy ships equipped Attani Mindlink. 50%! When you rule out all the two ship lists that don't really benefit enough from Mindlink, and all the generic pilots that don't have an EPT slot available, it adds up to almost every Scum pilot that could reasonably play Attani Mindlink chose to do so."
- source: http://stayontheleader.blogspot.de/

I politely diagree with your assesment. It makes ships immune to bumping and stress (one ship taking an action and bam all get a token assigned). And imho is one half of the problem. It would always be insanely good with that price.

However I also think the Jumpmaster is underpriced that is why this ship is involved in any balance issue on the scum side besides Zuckuss. U-boats, Dengaroo, Mindlink lists.

I think this is the most urgent issue that needs to be adressed, and then you can talk about other stuff especially x7
But without experiencing the fallout of one nerf to go around and nerf more stuff, thats just a sure way to obfuscate the results of your nerf.

Calls for card bans should be banned.

1 hour ago, Smutpedler said:

The thread tittle is:

What would need to be banned/rotated to make this game great again?

I've given you my honest answer. I honestly would prefer a more positive community right now. That's how it works on a public forum.

We can simply agree to disagree.

Sure, agree to disagree. FTR, "make this game great again" was a pun semi-reference towards Donald Trumps slogan "make america great again". Also, there was no intent on being negative with this thread. I was more or less hoping to get a glimpse of how people want to play the game and what cards are considered problematic by others. "Its fine" is a perfectly valid, if not perhaps productive, answer.