Hey all - after about a 9 month break, a mate and I who used to play X-Wing have gotten back into it. Back then I remember him being excited by his TIE Defender, and I never saw the big deal - it was a decent ship but it seemed overexpensive and it never did much in the games he used it in. Obviously Defenders have changed a lot since then - he's loving it, and good on him, but I think I need a little bit of help figuring out how to fly against them.

I'm not looking for a catch-all "Defenders will wilt before you" list or anything like that, and I am more than happy to admit that a lot of my issues probably come from lack of recent experience in the game as well as building lists that look like fun rather than lists that look competitive. Nevertheless, a couple of nudges in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.

Sets at my disposal are the following;

Core set, X, Y, A, B, HWK, E, Aces, YT-2400, Arc-170, Sabine's TIE and U-Wing. No K-Wing as yet, and as I understand it TLTs are pretty important for countering Defenders.

Most of the lists I've built include cheap A-Wings which seem to melt underneath Defenders - and the lists I've tried to tailor towards them end up being a stacked Dash and Dutch list or something similar, which doesn't seem to work too well.

Ta muchly!

As an example, here was my most recent build (haven't flown it yet);

Tall Norra Dashes (99/100)

Dash Rendar w/ HLC, Homing Missiles, Merc. Co-pilot, Outrider, Anti-pursuit Lasers (42pt)

Norra Wexley w/ R2D2, Flechette Torps, PTL, Tail Gunner, AO, Vectored Thrusters (57pt)

Any advice? I've always had a problem with leaning towards building tall rather than spreading so that's probably an issue. I'll put in two relatively expensive ships that I like, and the upgrades that I feel are "essential" for them (i.e. Dash and HLC/Outrider, Norra and PTL/Tail Gunner) and at that point I have no points left to put in a third ship.

One of my favorite Rebel lists:

Heff Tobber (U Wing)-

FCS

Finn

Hera

Title

TJ

Eaden Vrill (YT-2400)-

Rey

Tractor Beam Cannon

Braylen Stramm (ARC-170)-

R3-A2

Gunner

Title

all PS3 so you can choose move and firing order. Stress on any opponent makes target decision for Vrill easy and makes him a 5/5 3AT PWT. You don't have to outfly because Heff and just zero stop (over and over) and you park Stramm right behind and use TJ and do 1 green straights and give and clear stress. Lots of fun. Good luck.

Kwing would be a good buy imo. You get TLT and conner net platforms. Defenders hate conners. A couple Homing Missiles can be a good thing as well.

With the ARC i would go the stressmule route (Braylen with R3A2, Gunner, Vectored Thrusters, Title). While stress doesn't kill defenders as much as it does others it does shut down the focus tokens and Ryads PTL tricks.

29 minutes ago, charlesanakin said:

*snip*

I really like that list - will keep it in the back of my mind for when I get a couple of the necessary upgrades.

32 minutes ago, 4fox100 said:

Kwing would be a good buy imo. You get TLT and conner net platforms. Defenders hate conners. A couple Homing Missiles can be a good thing as well.

With the ARC i would go the stressmule route (Braylen with R3A2, Gunner, Vectored Thrusters, Title). While stress doesn't kill defenders as much as it does others it does shut down the focus tokens and Ryads PTL tricks.

I was never much good at bomb placement but conners being so bloody big would probably help with that.

Haven't got Rebel Transport so no stressbot unfortunately - starting to think I should just buy the card off eBay. I agree that's probably a more solid choice in terms of helping out Dash though, thanks for the tip

Heff + Zeb + tactical Jammers

Biggs + whatever 1pt bot you have

x2 TLT Y-Wings

Just fly Heff in front, biggs behind him, Y wings always between Heff and enemy. Defenders cant get around heff, and if they bump him, he gets a full modded range 1 shot. Heff creates space for Ywings. Ywings plink away at defenders. Took a similar list to regionals and beat Trip Defenders, RAC/Ryad. It's a lot stronger on the table than it looks on paper...err screen... Can sub a Ywing for a HWK if you dont have two Ys, and then add FCS or Jyn Ersa to Heff.

Defenders don't like TLTs so a K-Wing is a good start. It also come with Conner Nets which are also handy as Ionised Defenders cannot K-Turn or get their free Evade tokens. Things that can strip their token stacks like Wes Janson or Hotshot Copilot are also handy.

More generally, the most popular defenders seem to be Ryad and Vessery (with the occasional appearance of Maarek Steele) so if you get PS7+ pilots who can reposition then you dodge a lot of their flak. The other thing to remember is that unlike upgrades like Autothrusters, Defenders' bonuses don't kick on for every attack. This means that focused fire is the best way to take them down. They are not Soontir-level unhitable but you need to concentrate on one target at a time.

The following list should work pretty well against defenders. Kanan from the Ghost expansion is great on Dash but if you don't want to get the Ghost then Kyle Katarn works fairly well, just remember to stick to the Greens.

58 Dash Rendar (36), Heavy Laser Cannon (7), Outrider (5), Kanan (3), Push the Limit (3), Engine Upgrade (4)
41 Miranda Doni (29), TLT (6), Conner Nets (4), Extra Munitions (2)

Miranda and Dash both try to skirt around the Defenders rather than facing them head-on and use their turrets. Dash can both Boost and Barell roll at PS7 so he has a good chance of arc-dodging most Defenders. Miranda can plink away with her TLT and regenerate shields as necessary. If a Defender winds up on her 6, she can drop a Conner Net on them for LOLs.

I'm with the consensus on this one. I've seen Two TLTs tear them apart. Also it would help to have bombs to cut down their maneuverability.

2 hours ago, Karhedron said:

Defenders don't like TLTs so a K-Wing is a good start. It also come with Conner Nets which are also handy as Ionised Defenders cannot K-Turn or get their free Evade tokens. Things that can strip their token stacks like Wes Janson or Hotshot Copilot are also handy.

Defenders are not particularly bothered by TLTs. Having Focus + Evade and 3 green dice is actually a very effective defense against TLTs (not to mention 3 shields + 3 hull).

However, they don't like the other things you mentioned, no question. And the list you posted is indeed a really tough matchup for Defenders in general. Not because of Miranda's TLT though; just because Dash + Miranda have high PS and the ability to arc-dodge.

11 hours ago, blade_mercurial said:

Defenders are not particularly bothered by TLTs. Having Focus + Evade and 3 green dice is actually a very effective defense against TLTs (not to mention 3 shields + 3 hull).

However, they don't like the other things you mentioned, no question. And the list you posted is indeed a really tough matchup for Defenders in general. Not because of Miranda's TLT though; just because Dash + Miranda have high PS and the ability to arc-dodge.

They can be bothered by the TLTs if they have to lose the focus on one attack and the evade on the other. TLTs are great not only to deal damage but also to strip tokens.

1 TLT will not bother a Defender. 2 or 3 will push damage through fairly reliably.

I am planning on getting a K-Wing asap (apparently they're out of stock in the entire country at the moment).

In the meantime, ran a list of Norra, Keyan w/ Stay on Target, and Kyle Katarn yesterday which did pretty well against his defenders - may have just been luck but consistently being able to get on-target and get fire on seemed to whittle them down pretty quick - which echoes what you lot are saying re: TLT.

you will find that the defenders are now in general terms much better than the ships you have, but:

1-they are very predictable, if he is using the x\7 title (free evade) you probably know his movements before he reveals his dial, this mean that playing high skill pilots with ships with a good dial is a very good idea. A-wings are a good choice for you, with push the limit if he is using vessery, ryad or lower pilots (6,5...). no need to say that the plan is always to be out of his firing arc... You will always start the game running from him, and if you have doubts... Just play safe and run that turn. This kind of list need some practice, but always beat a defender based list if you don't commit errors... I won a lot of Games using three interceptors when defenders became popular, and the ship is very similar to awings, it takes a lot of time, but if you do it well sometimes your opponent don't fire in all the game... So frustrating, but also is losing against defenders...

2- the best thing you can use against defenders is ion cannons... If you hit him he will have to perform a 1 speed manouver, so you can easily be out of his firing arc the next turn and he won't get the free evade, and again, and again... Unfortunately you can think in b-wings for this purpose, but defenders are quite better than this ones, so if you are not very lucky in the first shooting round you will have lost the game.

3-cheap A-wings is something that could work... I have never tried it tough. Ion missiles seems to be a good choice, but the missiles which add up to three attacking dice depending on your agility (i don't remember the English name, sorry) are also a good choice if you get at range one.

4-if you have dash... Try with him, the normal build. Just play safe and run like everybody does.

5-if he is your friend, tell him to change from time to time... Is very boring to play all the time against that list, specially if you always lose.

i forgot about tlts... maybe the best option, but as you don't have the k-wing.... Also, bombs hurt defenders a lot....