If we are getting new A wings can we get the ones from Battlefront? You know, the ones that are so fast they can turn at full speed and escape your screen, their hit box so small that automatic targeting trails behind them haliriously and they can over charge their shields to turn invincible, so much so that they can crash into a Firespray and kill it instantly?

How many points would that be?

So now Im confused... because canon states that the Rebels took the A-Wings and stripped off the shields and heavy weapons to compete with the newer TIE variants as the galactic civil war raged on. So the A-Wing we have is a non stripped down one because it has shields... The -2 refit removed missiles (Heavy Weapons) but doesn't remove shields while thats not to canon per say I guess FFG thought that was good enough to represent a Stripped Rebel A-Wing and that maybe the loss of shields would make the ship too weak?

That being said if there was a errata to the refit to remove shields as well as the missiles, it would need to do something to boost the maneuverability / evasiveness either by Making it a TIE Striker type ship where it has to boost, either giving it more boost options (double boost or ability to use 2 templates instead of 1 templates) or somehow enabling free evade tokens or a combination of all of these, or some of these.

oi my head hurts....

45 minutes ago, Viktus106 said:

If we are getting new A wings can we get the ones from Battlefront? You know, the ones that are so fast they can turn at full speed and escape your screen, their hit box so small that automatic targeting trails behind them haliriously and they can over charge their shields to turn invincible, so much so that they can crash into a Firespray and kill it instantly?

How many points would that be?

actually EA/DICE fixed the hit marker box thing and they now have boost like the TIEs instead of shields...

7 minutes ago, Phoenix5454 said:

So now Im confused... because canon states that the Rebels took the A-Wings and stripped off the shields and heavy weapons to compete with the newer TIE variants as the galactic civil war raged on. So the A-Wing we have is a non stripped down one because it has shields... The -2 refit removed missiles (Heavy Weapons) but doesn't remove shields while thats not to canon per say I guess FFG thought that was good enough to represent a Stripped Rebel A-Wing and that maybe the loss of shields would make the ship too weak?

That being said if there was a errata to the refit to remove shields as well as the missiles, it would need to do something to boost the maneuverability / evasiveness either by Making it a TIE Striker type ship where it has to boost, either giving it more boost options (double boost or ability to use 2 templates instead of 1 templates) or somehow enabling free evade tokens or a combination of all of these, or some of these.

oi my head hurts....

This is a new canon change. Chardaan Refit was made when the Legends universe was still current and the A-wing was a purpose-built Rebel interceptor.

I can see a title card that is similar to SLAM where you cannot shoot, but the opposite where you either cannot defend, or all damage goes straight to hull under the shields (you could not do the latter if you have no shields left).

1 hour ago, Phoenix5454 said:

So now Im confused... because canon states that the Rebels took the A-Wings and stripped off the shields and heavy weapons to compete with the newer TIE variants as the galactic civil war raged on. So the A-Wing we have is a non stripped down one because it has shields... The -2 refit removed missiles (Heavy Weapons) but doesn't remove shields while thats not to canon per say I guess FFG thought that was good enough to represent a Stripped Rebel A-Wing and that maybe the loss of shields would make the ship too weak?

That being said if there was a errata to the refit to remove shields as well as the missiles, it would need to do something to boost the maneuverability / evasiveness either by Making it a TIE Striker type ship where it has to boost, either giving it more boost options (double boost or ability to use 2 templates instead of 1 templates) or somehow enabling free evade tokens or a combination of all of these, or some of these.

oi my head hurts....

1 hour ago, DR4CO said:

This is a new canon change. Chardaan Refit was made when the Legends universe was still current and the A-wing was a purpose-built Rebel interceptor.

I'll repeat... oi my head hurts lol

The shocking truth about A wings is if you fly one into the bridge of a super star destroyer it will cause it to blow up. It's true, saw it on the internet somewhere.

The A wing needs a title that reads "When this ship bumps another ship, they are both destroyed and removed from the game."

10 minutes ago, Mep said:

The shocking truth about A wings is if you fly one into the bridge of a super star destroyer it will cause it to blow up. It's true, saw it on the internet somewhere.

The A wing needs a title that reads "When this ship bumps another ship, they are both destroyed and removed from the game."

Pilot specific to Arvel Crynyd, the one who did it in the movie.

So... A RZ-1 A-Wing title that removes the shields / missiles and adds some kind of evasive up bonus and / or multiple boost or enhanced boost function... It could be interesting but being that this basically leaves the A-Wing as a Scum M3-A it would need to be a -3 squad point title IMO to make it match the M3-A in squad points.

the A-wings in the game were created based on an understanding of the EU/Legends version of the Fighter, where super-speed, missiles, and shields were all combined into one. the Chardaan refit card was a FFG invention to address some cost issues for players, named after a rebel shipyardthat sounded good.

then Disney took over the universe, and turned the EU to Legends. and with it came a new background and set of specs for the A-wing. SW:Rebels introduced a slightly different looking A-wing, and the supplementary material explained that the A-wing was a mass produced starfighter.

those same supplimentary materials explain that the te rebellion did refits to many of theirs, giving it the blinding speed everyone was used to from the EU/Legends material.. but at the expense of it's shields and missiles, which were pulled out entirely to get that high speed. these rebuilds were used to explain the different look between the Rebels and RotJ fighters.. one is "stock", the other rebuilt hotrods.

what is being proposed here is to treat this change of background as an excuse to add some new options to the game. since the current A-wing expansions include missiles and shields, we treat them representing the "stock" version as seen on Rebels, and have a new title that strips the missiles and shields in favor of something that increases the speed and agility to reflect the idea of the rebellion rebuilds.

(and the miniatures look should not be an issue here.. in RotJ we see two A-wings use missiles to bring down the executor's bridge sensor domes, so there is wriggle room.. that some of the refit models might have been 'demodified', or the stripped down look of the RotJ versions being more representative of frequently rebuilt/repaired A-wings in general rather than strictly representing the hotrod rebuild.)

I like the idea of an RZ-1 A-Wing title that lets you choose to use the 1 or 2 templates for boosting AND if you perform certain maneuvers ( 3, 4 or 5 speed maneuver? x/7 rip off? lol) you can assign an evade token to your ship. Once again -3 cost and removes shields and missile slot.

why would there be a price reduction? Chardaan refit removed one feature, but left everything else. this thing sacrifices two things.. but adds back something just as if not more valuable. especially in your version , where the it gets three major boosts (boost, turns, evade) all at once.

7 hours ago, Phoenix5454 said:

actually EA/DICE fixed the hit marker box thing and they now have boost like the TIEs instead of shields...

Awww man!! Even EA hate the A wing.

10 hours ago, Wiredin said:

Lambda shuttle with engine upgrade can outrun an A-Wing in this game.

No it can't. 3 straight and boost on a lambda is 8 base lenghts. 5 straight and boost on an Awing is 8 base lengths. And the lambda certainly can't out maneuver the Awing.

10 hours ago, mithril2098 said:

So your saying FFG needs to issue eratta removing all the shields and the missiles from the base stat cards? Because that is the offset of the speed in the rebellions refit. They removed the shields and the missiles.

Since the default x-wing version has shields and missiles, that means it HAS to be the pre-refit statblock.

A title to reflect the refit would naturally then remove the missiles and shields for some fashion of speed or agility increase.

My inclination would be to allow an awing so equipped to choose to use a straight 2 on a boost (but only a straight. If it wants to bank, it uses the 1 as usual)

I'm saying that if the rationale for the refit is that the Awing can't keep up with imperial fighters, it doesn't make sense that the Awing we already have can keep up with those imperial fighters.

Double post.

Triple post.

The A-Wing we have in this game is the A-Wing from the OT, the fast one.

The slower, but more armored/armed ship is the one we see in Rebels.

It doesn't mean the unmodified A-Wing had 3 attack or 3 shields, but some people experimented with custom titles. Mine gave it 1 more hull, no boost and a discount in squad points.

I am pretty sure the statement implies they removed their Heavy Weapons and Heavy Shields as in they removed the things that weighed a lot for lighter versions. It doesn't imply the A-wing was unarmed and unshielded.

A-wing as factory designed, basically a subpar E-wing

3/3/2/3 - 25 pts, worse dial and no boost

A-wing as fielded by the rebels

2/3/2/2 - 17 pts, crazy dial and boost

Chaadran refit

2/3/2/2 - 15 pts, no missiles

14 hours ago, Phoenix5454 said:

I like the idea of an RZ-1 A-Wing title that lets you choose to use the 1 or 2 templates for boosting AND if you perform certain maneuvers ( 3, 4 or 5 speed maneuver? x/7 rip off? lol) you can assign an evade token to your ship. Once again -3 cost and removes shields and missile slot.

12 hours ago, mithril2098 said:

why would there be a price reduction? Chardaan refit removed one feature, but left everything else. this thing sacrifices two things.. but adds back something just as if not more valuable. especially in your version , where the it gets three major boosts (boost, turns, evade) all at once.

we'll my thought was the ship now has 2 hull one awful dice roll even with the evade token and the ship grenades against high output attackers. Would you find it acceptable without a price reduction? Or would you even go as far as to add cost? Keep in mind this title would remove missiles too so you can't use the refit on top of this. Add or remove something I mentioned? Alter it? I think the OP is on to something so let's spitball ideas.

27 minutes ago, Jetfire said:

I am pretty sure the statement implies they removed their Heavy Weapons and Heavy Shields as in they removed the things that weighed a lot for lighter versions. It doesn't imply the A-wing was unarmed and unshielded.

A-wing as factory designed, basically a subpar E-wing

3/3/2/3 - 25 pts, worse dial and no boost

A-wing as fielded by the rebels

2/3/2/2 - 17 pts, crazy dial and boost

Chaadran refit

2/3/2/2 - 15 pts, no missiles

From the OP off wookiepedia:

Thanks to this track record, the Alliance obtained a number of A-wings and modified them, removing their heavy weapons and shields , in order to make them fast enough to combat the newer generations of Imperial TIE fighters.

makes it sounds like the Rebels removed all the shields...

4 hours ago, thepicto said:

I'm saying that if the rationale for the refit is that the Awing can't keep up with imperial fighters, it doesn't make sense that the Awing we already have can keep up with those imperial fighters.

thing is, it didn't say that the A-wing couldn't keep up with those fighters. just that the rebels wanted something to deal with fast TIE's like the Interceptor, and chose the A-wing as the starting point for a new variant. this allows for the stock A-wing to still be fairly fast, just not the level the rebellion wanted.

and if we're looking at the movement. per the fluff, the modified A-wings could "outrun a TIE Interceptor"

in X-wing,. a TIE Interceptor can do a straight 5 + boost.
an A-wing can do a Straight 5 + Boost.

aside from the A-wing having a green straight 5, and the Interceptor a white, they have the exact same movement dial. this means that an A-wing cannot actually outrun a TIE Interceptor, nor outfly it.

when you watch Rebels, the stock A-wings they fly are plenty fast and maneuverable, and with the introduction of the Interceptor in "the antilles extraction", shown to be about the same speed and agility as an Interceptor.

12 hours ago, Mep said:

The shocking truth about A wings is if you fly one into the bridge of a super star destroyer it will cause it to blow up. It's true, saw it on the internet somewhere.

The A wing needs a title that reads "When this ship bumps another ship, they are both destroyed and removed from the game."

A super star destroyer is f*****g far from "another ship". A super star destroyer is the mat. So the title should be "if this ship is destroyed you can flip the table, claim victory and drop the mic".

2 hours ago, Phoenix5454 said:

From the OP off wookiepedia:

Thanks to this track record, the Alliance obtained a number of A-wings and modified them, removing their heavy weapons and shields , in order to make them fast enough to combat the newer generations of Imperial TIE fighters.

makes it sounds like the Rebels removed all the shields...

If I say, "Fresh Fruits and Vegetables" do I mean the vegetables aren't fresh? I would say it is an ambiguous sentence at best and can easily be construed many ways. One of which is that A-wings have no weapons or shields, one is that they have no heavy weapons and no shields, one is that they removed the heavy stuff and replaced it with lighter stuff. I would argue the latter is the most sensible read.

Afterall, there is nothing saying a missile is a heavy weapon, and realistically missiles don't draw power so removing heavy lasers for light laser and heavy shields for light shields would leave more energy from the power plant to dump into the engines which would explain its high speed. Then later they strip out the missiles too to save maintenance costs.

Aw, man!

I came here hoping for another scale argument...

Quote

If I say, "Fresh Fruits and Vegetables" do I mean the vegetables aren't fresh? I would say it is an ambiguous sentence at best and can easily be construed many ways. One of which is that A-wings have no weapons or shields, one is that they have no heavy weapons and no shields, one is that they removed the heavy stuff and replaced it with lighter stuff. I would argue the latter is the most sensible read.

Without context, yes. This statement must however be taken in the context of the A-wing.

Removing the heavy weapons is easy to get: a factory A-wing has missile launchers and laser cannons. Remove the heavy weapons and you're left with laser cannons.

Removing the heavy shields implies the A-wing had heavy shields to start with. The only starfighter I can recall being called heavily shielded is the B-wing, a craft that has to be able to take hits because it's so slow. I very much doubt those Rebels A-wings were packing B-wing level shielding.