30 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

2) Increasingly Complicated Game mechanics: I know there are players that love the new character card abilities and synergies that have made some very tough, competitive lists, and that's fine. But to insure that new players or ones that want to be the best space fighter pilots aren't driven out of the game, something has to breach this impregnable wall of complexity. I have stated before on this Forum, with others (that are and will post on this thread) who are way smarter and better players than I that a squadron card needs to be added to each faction that allows ships of the same type to fly in a squad of fighters that have the ability to ignore or negate these synergies when the squad is played without such complexity. It will: A) grant squads of fighters that have almost passed into obscurity a real shot at competing on any given night, B) it will bring flying back to the forefront in necessities to bring to the mat, C) it will shake up the Meta as synergy lists will have to have other angles, D) it will increase sales of older ships to newer players that just grab at the new hotness, E) it will allow players that don't own or have all the new hotness a way to play on any given night and have a shot, F) it should bring a bit more wonder and fun while not eliminating the cool creative cards.

Jut my two cents. Thanks gents!

I love all the combinations, and actually enjoy the game more the more complex it gets. I also love the idea of squadrons for thematic reasons. OTOH, I have never looked at the idea of squadrons as a game-simplifying mechanic to compete with layers of special abilities. 2 cents? I think that's liquid gold!!

What concerns me lately is the loss of some notables (FGD, where you at, dawg?) on the forum and the lack of high-IQ strategy discussion (in lieu of "Nerf this" threads).

Let's talk mathwing and how to counter the meta staples.

29 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Anyway - before we derail this thread into another MOAR FIXEZ! type thread, I'm going to hijack it for my own selfish purposes...

GenCon Question:

Any concerns of the snowball effect? A player getting experienced named pilots continues to get more powerful and could hit somebody struggling to keep ships alive quite hard, even if they are winning their matches.

First off, I don't see anyone being lucky enough to have a lot of named characters. To start with, everyone will get a list of 10 named characters to try to recruit. Most likely other people will have recruited some of them ahead of time. Next, you probably will spread out the kind of uniques you want for different reasons. So, I don't believe I'd see a lot of named uniques in any one person's hanger.

Next, they have to stay alive! They get blown up in one game, and that's it. I believe it will be a lot easier to get someone killed than normal with all the super defensive combos gone. Having a lot of uniques means you will just have a greater chance of them dying.

Upgrading generics to uniques only happens after surviving 2 missions. So, the soonest we will see any will be Round 3 of 4. Any uniques that are upgraded will have to take on any of the remaining named people that haven't been grabbed by someone else or died already. When you are looking at some ships, there just might not be any open named people there. So, people will have to get a good number of their draft picks and have them live to round 3 before they can even build a list of primarily named people. Even at that point, I have found that people will get a little paranoid with their named people and rather bug out than push it for victory.

Lastly, it will still be points based lists. That means everyone gets points based on the mission. Using named people means they cost more points. Without a lot of super combos, I don't see the named ones being as incredibly as effective as in a normal game. There are also the missions to play for. You can go with all the named people you have, but if they aren't a good build for the actual mission, it might not do you well. A well picked list of generics will be better suited for some missions than a random pick of uniques. You still have to play to the mission.

Oh, and it might get to the point that someone throws the game just to take out as many named people from the other team. So, that guy might win, but they will be reduced in uniques.

Will killing unique pilots give more points than killing a generic? I think some kind of bounty system would be cool. Get +X points for killing named pilots that have survived a set number of battles.

4 minutes ago, MenaceNsobriety said:

Will killing unique pilots give more points than killing a generic? I think some kind of bounty system would be cool. Get +X points for killing named pilots that have survived a set number of battles.

There's no system in place for that; the points earned for killing ships is usually the cost of the ship+upgrades. There is of course benefit to your team if you take out a dangerous enemy ace, though.

I expect that players will be able to get 1-3 unique Pilots at the start of the event, depending greatly on what kind of pilots you're going after. If you're trying to recruit a popular pilot - Jake Farrell for example, your chances of getting them are relatively low, and go down fast if they're not your first pick. On the other hand, if you try to recruit Arvel Crynd, your chances are good that you will get him, even if he's lower on your list.

You'll also be drafting unique upgrades at the same time. I expect those will be easier to get since there will probably be a few lists that do not have space for crew.

55 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Anyway - before we derail this thread into another MOAR FIXEZ! type thread, I'm going to hijack it for my own selfish purposes...

GenCon Question:

Any concerns of the snowball effect? A player getting experienced named pilots continues to get more powerful and could hit somebody struggling to keep ships alive quite hard, even if they are winning their matches.

Next to zero chance, I think. Upgrading pilots is relatively hard, and losing them is relatively easy.

Players will probably have a hard time just holding onto their uniques and getting good use out of them, more than anything. Deciding to commit a unique pilot to a dangerous situation will be a hard call compared to normal play, where you don't care so much if they die or not.

Are you guys from Kentucky or West Virginia? I'm listening now, and it's striking how much your voices remind me of my home state. (I'm from Louisville and Lexington (go Cats!). I don't have the accent myself, but my mom did and many of my friends did.)

Jim and JBot live in North Carolina. I'm up in the polar opposite of WVA or KY; New York City!

20 minutes ago, Babaganoosh said:

Jim and JBot live in North Carolina.

Boo, Heels! Boo!

Half way through listening (1 hour in). Wow it's so depressing.

26 minutes ago, Sasajak said:

Half way through listening (1 hour in). Wow it's so depressing.

It gets better. The release of more details about GenCon is nice.

17 hours ago, heychadwick said:

I watch all the episodes of Rebels and consider the Ghost, A-wings, and Shadow Caster core Star Wars ships!

You NEVER flown 'em... you LARGE SHIP HATER you!

1 hour ago, Sasajak said:

Half way through listening (1 hour in). Wow it's so depressing.

Stay At Home... Play At Home; and you never have to deal with dat-craps!

16 minutes ago, Joe Boss Red Seven said:

Stay At Home... Play At Home; and you never have to deal with dat-craps!

Easy for you to say, Joe. Some of us don't have local friends or compatible schedules. I for one like to have others with me when I play with my ships while making sound effects.

21 hours ago, LagJanson said:

The key thing, had he got to that point a bit faster and more focused, was the evolution of the game. That... is a tricky subject. I've come from other long lasting (non-GW) miniature games and due to expansions over the (many) years you have the exact same problems. Power creep, rule complexity, old testament vs new testament timeline arguments between the classic fan base vs the new order fan base... X-Wing is not experiencing a single problem that's unique to this system. X-Wing is growing at a rapid pace so people are seeing these things evolve faster.

That is the key thing, and it is again and again missing in these discussions!

The "state of the game" is great at the moment, if we define it as list variety and balance, - but what game? The planning-heavy earlier version, or the listbuilding-/action-heavy current game? The earlier OT-canon ships, or the newer EU ships?

Another point, which might fit considering we're talking about the Shuttle Tydirium podcast here: my girlfriend recently demolished my A-wing squad with Kylo and Whisper. But she got frustrated because it's just so much stuff to keep track on. There are so many rules and interactions, and actions!, that mistakes are easily made and punished, and then rubbed into your own face because you will realize them eventually. I think Jim and JBot both frequently mention this, and while I personally love to build lists and figure out interactions (and rules behind), I get often reminded that not all player think this way.

I think that when we started playing, the game was akin to chess, and now it's closer to 3-dimensional chess. Core elements are unchanged, but there's several layers of complexity added on. It's easy to be nostalgic for regular chess at that point.

10 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

That is the key thing, and it is again and again missing in these discussions!

The "state of the game" is great at the moment, if we define it as list variety and balance, - but what game? The planning-heavy earlier version, or the listbuilding-/action-heavy current game? The earlier OT-canon ships, or the newer EU ships?

Another point, which might fit considering we're talking about the Shuttle Tydirium podcast here: my girlfriend recently demolished my A-wing squad with Kylo and Whisper. But she got frustrated because it's just so much stuff to keep track on. There are so many rules and interactions, and actions!, that mistakes are easily made and punished, and then rubbed into your own face because you will realize them eventually. I think Jim and JBot both frequently mention this, and while I personally love to build lists and figure out interactions (and rules behind), I get often reminded that not all player think this way.

The game is evolving so that it has a more complex set of possible interactions, which does draw on more players who thought the earlier game play to simple (yes, there are those out there) but are totally pushing those who prefer the dial-based game out. Your girlfriend sounds much like my own wife, who loves her simple TIE swarms and has suddenly discovered she can't repeat her earlier successes in the game in a harsh and frustratingly brutal way. (Not against me, I still suck)

I'm a believer that FFG event organizers need to start expanding their offering beyond the 1vs1 tournament structure. I'm not saying ditch the tournaments guys, so don't hang me up yet. I'm saying in ADDITION to. The game is big enough now. I'm a believer in narrative/story events. I've run them for other systems, and I'm wanting to run them for X-Wing. I've shelved my plans for the moment and I'll be following Tydirium's successes and failures (always a learning process - failure isn't bad) with great interest to see which direction I take it locally. Even if I don't get a ticket to the event at GenCon, I'll be visiting the area to see how things go.

And by the by... how many wokklings do I need to buy in order to slip my GR75 into my list at GenCon?

19 hours ago, MenaceNsobriety said:

Will killing unique pilots give more points than killing a generic?

Points are for value of the ship, so a ship worth more points gives up more points.

17 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Boo, Heels! Boo!

Actually, I'm "anyone but Carolina". My brother went there and his tuition was cheaper than mine, so I ended up hating all the nice stuff at his college that mine didn't have. I hate Carolina Blue, as well.

18 hours ago, Babaganoosh said:

New York City!

NEW YORK CITY ?!?!?!?!?!?

3 hours ago, Sasajak said:

Half way through listening (1 hour in). Wow it's so depressing.

Yeah....I wanted to let J-bot complain for a bit and then jump in with the positive comments, but I let it go on too long. The 2nd half is MUCH better.

21 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

During the Dark Times, all I had to keep the dream alive was WEG, Decipher, and Bantam novels. (Never been much of a video game buff, but did play X-Wing and TIE Fighter.) So, I am equally excited to see things like the Mist Hunter and IG-2000 hit the table in 3-D. I would still like to see Chiss Clawcraft, the Slave II, and lots of other EU ships come out as well. Legends was Star Wars for me for a very long time, and while I understand the need to allow creative freedom for all the new movies, I'm saddened that old favorites like Jacen and Jaina Solo are just plain gone, and Mara Jade exists in a quasi-twilight of what-once-was-but-could-be-again.

It was a good discussion but I wanted to second this notion. For those of us that do instantly recognize the more obscure ships, it is a great feeling. One of my problems with the Star Wars Insider for many years has been that it caters to a very shallowly involved fanbase. Seeing some of the more obscure fighters makes me feel like they're making an effort to care about fans that lived through the dark times. My favorite wave was IV, I've never been more excited about any of the ships than those.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see more T-65s and it would certainly have more appeal for the passerby. But the EU ships make me feel appreciated as a longtime fan heavily invested in the lore.

P.s. we have no shortage of red core sets in my area.

23 hours ago, LagJanson said:

The shame is that the points that the balance is currently hurting is those ships that drew most of the people into the game in the first place.

This is exactly my problem with the game right now.

14 hours ago, heychadwick said:

Yeah....I wanted to let J-bot complain for a bit and then jump in with the positive comments, but I let it go on too long. The 2nd half is MUCH better.

You're ideas about missions in the second half are spot on. I played the Gozanti campaign recently. The last mission (Empire scanning asteroids) was amazing and the best game both we've ever had. The Rebel player had the satisfaction has decimating my forces whereas I had the satisfaction of winning through completing the objective but only just.

Reflecting on the podcast, if I can be bold, I think there is a good dose of nostalgia and looking at the past with rose-tinted spectacles. There was discussion about the new films being all about being able to add more merchandise - didn't the original trilogy basically invent this type of merchandise in the first place? Then you go on about wanting to play "iconic" ships. While I can agree ships like the K-wing are not iconic you seem to express a similar opinion about the Upsilon shuttle! Now I know you guys have a massive downer on TFA but how can the Upsilon not be iconic and major part of the SWs universe? My litmus test of whether something has entered pop culture is my families reaction, who watch SW but aren't fanatics, when they first see an unpackaged model - the reaction to the Upsilon was "Ooooo Kylo Ren's ship".

I hope this hasn't come over as a rant. It's not meant to be! Please keep up the good work. I'm looking forward to trying your campaign. Sounds awesome.

6 hours ago, Sasajak said:

You're ideas about missions in the second half are spot on. I played the Gozanti campaign recently. The last mission (Empire scanning asteroids) was amazing and the best game both we've ever had. The Rebel player had the satisfaction has decimating my forces whereas I had the satisfaction of winning through completing the objective but only just.

Reflecting on the podcast, if I can be bold, I think there is a good dose of nostalgia and looking at the past with rose-tinted spectacles. There was discussion about the new films being all about being able to add more merchandise - didn't the original trilogy basically invent this type of merchandise in the first place? Then you go on about wanting to play "iconic" ships. While I can agree ships like the K-wing are not iconic you seem to express a similar opinion about the Upsilon shuttle! Now I know you guys have a massive downer on TFA but how can the Upsilon not be iconic and major part of the SWs universe? My litmus test of whether something has entered pop culture is my families reaction, who watch SW but aren't fanatics, when they first see an unpackaged model - the reaction to the Upsilon was "Ooooo Kylo Ren's ship".

I hope this hasn't come over as a rant. It's not meant to be! Please keep up the good work. I'm looking forward to trying your campaign. Sounds awesome.

I'm don't have a massive downer on TFA! It's not the greatest, but I like the movie! It's a Star Wars movie. I'm down with it. I don't even like to bash things about it. I think J-bot does that.

I think the Bat Wing looks....not the best. Whatever, though. I'm not hating it. Personally, I just have no interest in it. I don't really enjoy the big based ships. I like the small ships. I find I just don't fly that many big ships. I don't really want to buy another one that I won't fly. That and storing it. I haven't bought the YV-666 for the same reason. I don't have anything against that ship, but....I just don't like that many big based ships. I don't think I've ever flown my Bro Bots and I don't have anything against them. I've flown my Falcon once. I've flown my Outrider....5 times? I like Dengar and the Shadow Caster, but have only ever flown them a few times. I've flown the Firespray the most, probably. Actually, probably the Lambda the most.

Yeah...I really think missions is where the game needs to head to. It doesn't matter if x list is an ultra killing machine if it can't complete a specific mission.

I'm with you on the big base ships. I'm in it for the starfighters. I need to learn how to fly them though, that U-Wing hits me the same way as the classic fighters for some reason...

9 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Yeah...I really think missions is where the game needs to head to. It doesn't matter if x list is an ultra killing machine if it can't complete a specific mission.

Maybe we (the players) should organize an unofficial X-Wing event support team and run events like your planned GenCon run. Share missions, cooperate on development, run them locally, that sort of thing.

I've pretty much taken over the local shop and rotate different play styles through weekly. Just finished another HotAC Death Star run this week (youtube video coming, but creative editing required due to... issues) and HotAC next week, epic is being talked about for the near future as well. Week before we had standard 100/6 and a tournament on the weekend - so we're hitting all the major points. It keeps people interested, shakes up the meta, and generates a fair bit of talk even beyond your local group.

1 hour ago, LagJanson said:

Maybe we (the players) should organize an unofficial X-Wing event support team and run events like your planned GenCon run. Share missions, cooperate on development, run them locally, that sort of thing.

Well....we are hoping people will join the global campaign after the GenCon event. We are going to have all the files out there for people to run the event with just a couple of guys or a whole store full. I want to get other podcasts to try it out, too.

19 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Well....we are hoping people will join the global campaign after the GenCon event. We are going to have all the files out there for people to run the event with just a couple of guys or a whole store full. I want to get other podcasts to try it out, too.

Yes, I have heard that. I for one would be willing to run it. So technically, you've gone international already.