This is a war you don't simply win....you just play in it.... :-)

16 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

I don't think you're in a position to dictate how other people feel or what they get to say. That's not normal, it's obnoxious and childish.

Coming from you and what you've posted over the last month. I'll take that as a compliment. Not all of us use big words with hallow meanings but you go ahead and name call all you want if it makes you feel better

Uh oh, I've been using big words! Please don't shame me for using my smarty-brains and edjewkation. For what it's worth, I'm really not altogether that pious, but I'll start wearing a pope hat while I type if it'll make you feel better.

4 minutes ago, GrandMoffMatt said:

What a fraud. A true card gamer would have paid to make a suit out of moxen.

and then complain about people pointing out how he took all the supply.

Nah, it's his own fault for not having the quiche to buy saga sets up front, that blue collar, working class schmuck.

It's aspirational! That goes against the grain!

3 hours ago, HoodieDM said:

People just see $650 and dont want to pay that.

Gee, I can't imagine why.

Do you even realize how much of an ass you sound like?

You know the guys at TC did the same thing, but with Vader and Han cards and melted down dice.

Glad I got my Vader and Han set...

5 hours ago, KrisWall said:

I'm really unclear as to why some people doggedly refuse to admit that A. this game has a product availability issue that is likely to continue and

Here is why refuse to admit there is a problem with product availability...

Look back at these boards from when the game was first announced...it is full of post after post after post of people commenting things like "Star Wars DiceMasters....ppppshhh, that game will surely SUCK...." You compound that attitude back to the FLGS store owners who were all still probably bitter about what happened with DiceMasters, and they too become cautious about supporting the game....

What was the result of all this way early negative feedback? Many FLGS didnt pony up and pre-order product. FFG saw this and tried to do something about it -- they did demos of the game at GenCon and offered pre-release events....still many stores were hesitant to commit too heavliy to pre-ordering product.

The final outcome? FFG sees the low pre-order numbers and becomes cautious themselves with how much product they produce. The game releases and is a smash hit and THEN the FLGS try to scramble to get product but the initial allotment is gone. Me and everyone in my meta have almost full play sets because we did a demo of the game early and convinced our FLGS to pre-order a **** ton of boxes -- which they did. We all got the product and couldnt be happier.

TL:DR -- The "product availability" issues are also due in part to a large lack of pre-order / pre-release buzz around the game. FFG saw the lack of pre-orders decided to play it safe by not producing as much product early.

1 minute ago, pstalker said:

Here is why refuse to admit there is a problem with product availability...

Look back at these boards from when the game was first announced...it is full of post after post after post of people commenting things like "Star Wars DiceMasters....ppppshhh, that game will surely SUCK...." You compound that attitude back to the FLGS store owners who were all still probably bitter about what happened with DiceMasters, and they too become cautious about supporting the game....

What was the result of all this way early negative feedback? Many FLGS didnt pony up and pre-order product. FFG saw this and tried to do something about it -- they did demos of the game at GenCon and offered pre-release events....still many stores were hesitant to commit too heavliy to pre-ordering product.

The final outcome? FFG sees the low pre-order numbers and becomes cautious themselves with how much product they produce. The game releases and is a smash hit and THEN the FLGS try to scramble to get product but the initial allotment is gone. Me and everyone in my meta have almost full play sets because we did a demo of the game early and convinced our FLGS to pre-order a **** ton of boxes -- which they did. We all got the product and couldnt be happier.

TL:DR -- The "product availability" issues are also due in part to a large lack of pre-order / pre-release buzz around the game. FFG saw the lack of pre-orders decided to play it safe by not producing as much product early.

So, to be clear... you are challenging my statement that there is a problem with product availability by explaining to me why there is a problem with product availability. You sir, might want to work on your debate skills.

I don't think most people would be worried about shortages if they knew that future product was on the way. I, at least, am worried because FFG confirmed in their article that there will be NO reprints for future expansions. What they make is what will be available. If they make enough, awesome. If they don't make enough... players will quit. Product shortages make it impossible to grow a gaming community.

14 minutes ago, pstalker said:

What was the result of all this way early negative feedback? Many FLGS didnt pony up and pre-order product. FFG saw this and tried to do something about it -- they did demos of the game at GenCon and offered pre-release events....still many stores were hesitant to commit too heavliy to pre-ordering product.

The final outcome? FFG sees the low pre-order numbers and becomes cautious themselves with how much product they produce. The game releases and is a smash hit and THEN the FLGS try to scramble to get product but the initial allotment is gone. Me and everyone in my meta have almost full play sets because we did a demo of the game early and convinced our FLGS to pre-order a **** ton of boxes -- which they did. We all got the product and couldnt be happier.

Everybody does remember that Destiny couldn't be printed fast enough to deliver everything on the initial release date as expected, right? And the last shipment arrived well past the point where everything was selling out and the shortage was perfectly visible?

If we assume actual demand was somewhere around 4x what they printed, what makes anyone think they could have actually produced that much without a major date slip, which they obviously weren't willing to accept?

19 hours ago, ozmodon said:

Yeah it said we are printing more so stop your winning

yes but from what they said there not gonna print enough, a big clue is very limited

13 hours ago, HoodieDM said:

#1 the game cant flourish with negative people like yourself

#2 how can it be stagnant, its 3 months old and ONE set...

If you think the game is over, sell/give away your cards and go play an LCG.

Bye Felicia...

~D

1. without ppl complaining nothing would change

2.it's stagnant because it can not grow no more, since there is no product to get in new players

12 hours ago, HoodieDM said:

Heres what I tell people when they say available product. Dont be a ***** and pony up and spend $650-$700 on a complete playset (2 of everything). Thats no different than me buying a case at $650+. I got 36 legendaries in a case (6 boxes). Oh look, you got 34 legendaries. Problem solved.

People who buy loose packs I never understand. Its all a lotto game. Buy a complete common playset at $15-$20. Thats the 5-6 packs you were gonna buy that week. Then next week instead of $10 in packs, buy a couple of rares or a cheap legendary. Or better, take that $10-$20 a week, save it for 3 months, then buy 3 boxes in the summer!!

Im sorry if people cant afford to buy into a CCG. If you cant afford it, then go play the LCG or one of FFGs other awesome games that allows you to get everything in one wave purchase. Or better yet, save your money and invest so you dont have to work until you die.

~D

everyone is not scrooge mcduck

13 hours ago, pstalker said:

TL:DR -- The "product availability" issues are also due in part to a large lack of pre-order / pre-release buzz around the game. FFG saw the lack of pre-orders decided to play it safe by not producing as much product early.

Then explain to me why stores that DID pre-order weren't even receiving the full amount they ordered. If so many stores weren't pre-ordering, shouldn't there have been sufficient stock for those that did? Wouldn't my local store have received more than one copy of each starter?

I think some people here are confusing those who want a full playset and those who just want to be able to buy boosters casually. I don't need two of every legendary, I'd just like to buy boosters every once and a while. FFG's new post basically says that's not acceptable and you'd better pre-order as many boxes and possible to try and get product before it's gone forever. That's just plainly not very attractive to me and not a lot of fun. That's just my two cents.

41 minutes ago, dpb1298 said:

I don't need two of every legendary, I'd just like to buy boosters every once and a while.

Which is what made Magic such a huge hit early on. It was a relatively cheap add-on to whatever else you were buying at the store that day. It got people hooked. It didn't assume right out of the gate that people were just going to be snapping up booster boxes left and right. Hell, they still don't assume that.

This is why I see this game surviving in a much reduced state. Everything about it so far, expect maybe the cards' rarity, turns off the causal player.

1 hour ago, DailyRich said:

Which is what made Magic such a huge hit early on. It was a relatively cheap add-on to whatever else you were buying at the store that day. It got people hooked. It didn't assume right out of the gate that people were just going to be snapping up booster boxes left and right. Hell, they still don't assume that.

Magic did have it's share of supply issues...which they quickly corrected once they realized how much people wanted to buy product.

Magic also had a plan from day 1 to have a core set of cards that would always be available. Maybe updated from time to time...regularly now, with a planned rotation...which would be supplemented by limited run expansion sets. This seems to be the standard approach to a CCG.

Destiny appears to have been launched without the support of a core set. FFG's plan was to have boosters supplemented by limited print run expansion. Even without the high demand that the game awoke in the players, this was a terrible mistake from the start. At least if they'd planned on Awakenings being a core set they'd have some reprints included in their production schedule. Instead, it's possible that they've had to cut into SoR's run at the factory..

I'm still confused about if Awakenings is supposed to be an expansion or a base set. It seems to be an expansion that just happens to have starter sets. Regardless it was a bizarre launch.

1 hour ago, dpb1298 said:

I'm still confused about if Awakenings is supposed to be an expansion or a base set. It seems to be an expansion that just happens to have starter sets. Regardless it was a bizarre launch.

They keep referring to Spirit of Rebellion as the second booster box, so it's pretty clear Awakenings was meant to be the first.

2 hours ago, dpb1298 said:

I'm still confused about if Awakenings is supposed to be an expansion or a base set. It seems to be an expansion that just happens to have starter sets. Regardless it was a bizarre launch.

I agree. I'm also confused on why they don't just retcon the **** thing and call it their first base set and keep printing it for the whole year. Not just one more run. Unless of course this is happening because they have yet to spin up the production capability to do so (likely?), and by next year they'll be capable of printing simultaneously (base set + boosters).

Production capacity is a huge problem for this game. I am sure they are ramping up, how much they can do so this year remains to be seen.

The real problem is the hoarding investors and price gougers. Now that it is known this game has both limited supply and high demand, those people will go crazy on this game. Even if they double the print size for SoR it won't matter as all the parasites will be attracted to this game. All the product form traditional retail outlets will get bought up and put up on ebay. This will continue until the prices crash and those people go to pound town.

So in a way, the game having a falling out after a year with a big drop in prices in the secondary market will actually be a good thing for the following year. Product availability will actually get real gamers back into the game and it will do better.

I've never been near a CCG before, but folks on here seem to have some good insight and ideas into how to build a successful and sustainable game. I'm amazed FFG didn't get someone onboard 12 months ago to help guide them.