15 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

The Empire also does the same thing.

Soontir had 3 tokens how many years before Attani Mindlink ?

And defenders run around with minimum 2 tokens, 3 when you have vessert and ptl ryad

40 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

The Empire also does the same thing.

Soontir had 3 tokens how many years before Attani Mindlink ?

3 tokens, no extra dice, vulnerable to stress... That's cute. Let's pretend it's similar

1 hour ago, force kin said:

Scum is lame. Shouldn't have been included

Matter of opinion. I personally like how it gave more options for ship design and didn't automatically assign mercenary characters to the Imps side.

34 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

And defenders run around with minimum 2 tokens, 3 when you have vessert and ptl ryad

Yeah. Knee jerk there too. Should not get the evade. Too much

1 hour ago, Lobokai said:

3 tokens, no extra dice, vulnerable to stress... That's cute. Let's pretend it's similar

Take triple Defenders then. Parattani generates 3 extra focus tokens for one Focus action (2 when one ship focuses, a 3rd when Manaroo passes her token). A triple Defender list gets exactly the same token economy (3 Evade tokens for free).

Both token and dice creep was started by the Empire. The Empire had both the first native 4 dice ship (Phantom) as well as the first really competitive token stack aces (from PtL Interceptors in Wave 3 IIRC to 'can't touch this' 3 actions per round Soontir and Inquisitor backed by Palp).

Scum just caught up.

If I had to say there really was a negative quality of Scum - which might not be agreed upon, is that in addition to their own tendency for dirty tricks (Seriously, tractor tokens, so many of the illicits being one-time use but clutch, lots of scum crew and their nastiness) Scum also kind of does borrow or have access to a lot of tricks from the other two factions playbooks. They can do janky fiddly turrets, they can do regen, they can token stack, maybe they can do bombs, they can do aces, they can deal the stress, they have TLT carriers... etc. Maybe, perhaps some of these things they can do they clearly cannot do with variety and optimization as the other two - but the point stands that in addition to their own faction identity, those weaselly little blighters can chip away at the identity of the other two factions.

That said, I think a lot of people have fun playing scum, and while some of their ships and upgrades could be distributed to the other two factions I think the game really does benefit in distinction and diversity by having the pyramid of factions.

(Now if we could just add a fourth faction for all those other "third party" factions and militaries like CorSec and the CSA and fill their ranks with obscure ships - then we'll be cooking with gas)

1 hour ago, UnitOmega said:

If I had to say there really was a negative quality of Scum - which might not be agreed upon, is that in addition to their own tendency for dirty tricks (Seriously, tractor tokens, so many of the illicits being one-time use but clutch, lots of scum crew and their nastiness) Scum also kind of does borrow or have access to a lot of tricks from the other two factions playbooks. They can do janky fiddly turrets, they can do regen, they can token stack, maybe they can do bombs, they can do aces, they can deal the stress, they have TLT carriers... etc. Maybe, perhaps some of these things they can do they clearly cannot do with variety and optimization as the other two - but the point stands that in addition to their own faction identity, those weaselly little blighters can chip away at the identity of the other two factions.

That said, I think a lot of people have fun playing scum, and while some of their ships and upgrades could be distributed to the other two factions I think the game really does benefit in distinction and diversity by having the pyramid of factions.

(Now if we could just add a fourth faction for all those other "third party" factions and militaries like CorSec and the CSA and fill their ranks with obscure ships - then we'll be cooking with gas)

For me I'm waiting until they split the Primary factions into their subfactions. Perhaps a soft split where they can be allies but have to take a majority fraction of points in ships for their subfaction.

1 hour ago, UnitOmega said:

If I had to say there really was a negative quality of Scum - which might not be agreed upon, is that in addition to their own tendency for dirty tricks (Seriously, tractor tokens, so many of the illicits being one-time use but clutch, lots of scum crew and their nastiness) Scum also kind of does borrow or have access to a lot of tricks from the other two factions playbooks.

They can do janky fiddly turrets, they can do regen, they can token stack, maybe they can do bombs, they can do aces, they can deal the stress, they have TLT carriers... etc. Maybe, perhaps some of these things they can do they clearly cannot do with variety and optimization as the other two - but the point stands that in addition to their own faction identity, those weaselly little blighters can chip away at the identity of the other two factions.

Isn't that precisely the nature of Scum? Stealing things, using them in creative ways, but not matching the reliable effectiveness of the original owner (be it Empire's or Rebel stuff they stole).

Btw, crossovers: recently Rebels got Illicit, and they also are the best bombing faction in the game. Which is theme-wise stupid, because the Empire with its ressources and its doctrine of terror should be supreme in bombing.

Edit: spelling

6 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Okay so the third faction. There are some pros and cons to the 3rd faction. I might list or describe some but keep in mind there are some limitations based on the fact that the scum.

First the Bad news.

1. (...)
2. Upsetting Asymmetrical balance. The game was designed with two sides. That is as clear as any other fact. Thus the balance between the traits were clear. Rebels had the shields and the firepower, higher pilot skill and cost more. Imperials had the agility and the positioning and can swarm and block the enemy with cheap ships. There were ships that crossed over but for the most part the factions were considered asymmetrical and equal at the same time. Then came the scum. They sort of fit somewhere in between the two and thus the asymmetrical balance was disturbed.

(...)

Nice analysis!

The pilot skill description does not fit however. Might have been so in the very beginning, but right now Empire has the better pilots (left cloumn all pilots with Resistance/FO, right column only OT time. Upper row absolute numbers, lower row relative to total number pilots within the faction).

The faction with the weakest pilots is actually Scum&Villainy.

Regardless of that, would not the picture been diluted in the same way if there were only 2 factions still today? Rebel players (theme, or only wanting to fly the faction perveived as morally good by them) wanting some nimble glas cannon or agile blockers, Imperial players (theme, or only wanting to fly the faction perveived as morally good by them) wanting some clunky high health ships? Lot's of threads callling for Imperial turrets might be an indication there, too.

2 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

Nice analysis!

The pilot skill description does not fit however. Might have been so in the very beginning, but right now Empire has the better pilots (left cloumn all pilots with Resistance/FO, right column only OT time. Upper row absolute numbers, lower row relative to total number pilots within the faction).

...

Yes I was referring to Wave 5 and before. Basically you had the X-wing being the signature Fighter of the Rebels with good fire power, shields and a higher pilot skill. vs the TIE Fighter with its high agility, nimble positioning and efficient point cost. However as you brought up Scum pretty much changed all that.

Pilots were often lower skill than their rebel counterparts yet have some of the highest skilled generics and the most 9 skill pilots (not counting resistance and first order). Until the protectorate none of their ships were without shields but they often did have less shield percentage than rebels with many ships only boasting a shield value of 1.

Anyways, when talking about faction characteristics and in other posts I have made a distinction between overall characteristics (common characteristics shared by all ships in the faction) and meta characteristics (characteristics only shared by ships representing the faction in premier tournament play). Here is a general (not to be exact) statement on the factions.

• Overall, Rebels were supposed to be synergistic, Imperials had bonus damage, and Scum were disruptive.
• However with the meta, Rebels have bonus damage, Imperials are disruptive, and Scum have the synergies.

Again a general statement but it does point out how the meta characteristics differ from the overall characteristics.

3 hours ago, Lobokai said:

3 tokens, no extra dice, vulnerable to stress... That's cute. Let's pretend it's similar

Actually he ways pretty much always on 4 green dice...

People like scum, even of they dont know eu. I had a friend that just likes bounty hunter concept and thinks that both rebels and imps are lame, so when scum were introduced, he jumped in and he doesnt care that he doesnt know the ships.

8 hours ago, wurms said:

This is clearly a Trump era topic.

"I'm gonna ban Scum from tournaments, because we need to feature original trilogy ships only FORGET BOBA FETT, HE WASN'T THERE. And while we're at it, I'm gonna ban repaints, because who wants to see a My Little Pony Millennium Falcon, and we're definitely going to ban ships with STUPID LEGO FIGURES hanging off them, they're a different toy range entirely and DON'T BELONG IN THIS GAME..."

I started playing on the back of scum and only have scum ships so to be told you cant bring the only ships you have to my torniment means i will never do a torniment and infact dose more to push the idea of having to buy more and spend more money that you acused ffg of

13 hours ago, UnitOmega said:

Parattanni uses two ships introduced in Rebels (which gets over a million viewers an episode), and pilots who are/were recurring characters in TCW and Rebels and are are decently recognizable (and are popular among people who watch those shows. Fenn Rau a pretty cool guy). They're a terrible example of an obscure ship list.

Unless your old as dirt.....like me.

But seriously, what does a million viewers an episode vs. the movies? Akin to a drop in the bucket. No salt on Rebels, but it's a small but loyal fan-base that watches those; I personally don't know anyone who does. And yes, I'm saying beyond old guys who saw Episode IV as a kid when it opened; I've played with kids starting at around 10 and many teenagers, twenty-somethings and into their thirties (youngsters all, haha). And, they're all Star Wars fanatics, sporting neat T-Shirts and hit the new movies right out of the gate and multiple times. So....I'm just saying, the OP does have a real point. Most all Star Wars lovers have no idea what a Shadowcaster or Protectorate is....or why the **** there is a TIE fighter with graffiti on it piloted by a terrorist. Most people think it's Star Trek or Aliens or something like that.

Yeah, yeah, I know......"I'm getting to old for this sort of thing."

13 hours ago, spacelion said:

Tournaments should consist only of X-wings and TIE fighters because that's the name of the game.

It's called X-Wing Miniatures. T-65's only from now on, not those TIE fighters. All they do is explode...

So we're at the point now where the internet whinge machine wants an entire faction removed? Brilliant. Stellar. You could spend time to practice, develop counter strategies for the current crop of Scum lists and learn how to handle their various tricks, but no, that's too hard so just outright cut them from the game.

The idea that doing so will somehow make the game more recogniseable to old grognards is laughable - taking Scum out doesn't magically bring the X-Wing back in droves, and the basic core design of the TIE Fighter is reused so often throughout the Imperial arsenal that it can be easily identified. The UPS Shuttle, TIE/FO, SF and Striker all have appearences in the newest films, and all four of those show up quite regularly in Imperial lists.

Essentially what we have here is yet another thinly veiled **** and moan about the state of the game hidden poorly behind a flimsy, unsustantiated argument about recruitment in a failed attempt to give an ill-informed opinion some validity.

Can we all please stop complaining when FFG releases new ships not from the OT? Many fans, myself included, partake in all forms of Star Wars. From the many new books series, movies, tv shows and comics comes new content. Embrace it all

16 minutes ago, MalusCalibur said:

So we're at the point now where the internet whinge machine wants an entire faction removed? Brilliant. Stellar. You could spend time to practice, develop counter strategies for the current crop of Scum lists and learn how to handle their various tricks, but no, that's too hard so just outright cut them from the game.

The internet <> A single user, and the idea openly rejected by nearly the rest of the forum.

And, by the "throw the bomba and hide" style of the OP, looks like an obvious troll.

16 hours ago, spacelion said:

Tournaments should consist only of X-wings and TIE fighters because that's the name of the game.

You mean an X-wing.

One X-wing.

Each player gets half.

Sorry OP, I disagree with you.

First Scum adds variety to the game not to mention some nice cards too (at this point I have at least 1 (certain ships 2 or more) of every ship {all factions}+ preorder the C-Roc). I also find that just because it might not be recognizable doesn't deter interest in fact might stir it up some. Like someone else mention people might ask what ship is that from etc, then they might look into and say hey that is cool.

Second point, I was at a hobby store watching some players Play X-wing Scum v Scum and that picked up my interest where I ended up with my large collection today. So tournaments are a good place to recruit new players, take your time and talk to them.

Third there is a thing called google, use it if you are having issues with countering those lists. I used Google/Youtube to maximize my lists and to learn tactics.

Fourth, it would be really stupid for them remove Scum now.

On 1.3.2017 at 5:38 AM, Chumbalaya said:

This thread is bad and you should feel bad.

I wanted to start a discussion. In my original post I obviously pointed out that " The pros obviously outweights the cons. ".
I LOVE scum
I wanted to know what ppls general perception towards non-xwing players knowledge of the Scum-faction was.

Good discussion thus far.

On 1.3.2017 at 4:09 PM, MalusCalibur said:

So we're at the point now where the internet whinge machine wants an entire faction removed? Brilliant. Stellar. You could spend time to practice, develop counter strategies for the current crop of Scum lists and learn how to handle their various tricks, but no, that's too hard so just outright cut them from the game.

The idea that doing so will somehow make the game more recogniseable to old grognards is laughable - taking Scum out doesn't magically bring the X-Wing back in droves, and the basic core design of the TIE Fighter is reused so often throughout the Imperial arsenal that it can be easily identified. The UPS Shuttle, TIE/FO, SF and Striker all have appearences in the newest films, and all four of those show up quite regularly in Imperial lists.

Essentially what we have here is yet another thinly veiled **** and moan about the state of the game hidden poorly behind a flimsy, unsustantiated argument about recruitment in a failed attempt to give an ill-informed opinion some validity.

Thanks for not understanding anything. What about my statement

" The pros obviously outweights the cons. " did you not understand?

All I wanted was a discussing. No scum ban. But maybe a discussion about small loca-store tourneys with perhaps more narrative play. Say you run a tourney where rebels always have to face imperials and vica-versa.
Nothing I said was aimed at official FFG tourneys.

Quote

Sorry OP, I disagree with you.

First Scum adds variety to the game not to mention some nice cards too (at this point I have at least 1 (certain ships 2 or more) of every ship {all factions}+ preorder the C-Roc). I also find that just because it might not be recognizable doesn't deter interest in fact might stir it up some. Like someone else mention people might ask what ship is that from etc, then they might look into and say hey that is cool.

Second point, I was at a hobby store watching some players Play X-wing Scum v Scum and that picked up my interest where I ended up with my large collection today. So tournaments are a good place to recruit new players, take your time and talk to them.

Third there is a thing called google, use it if you are having issues with countering those lists. I used Google/Youtube to maximize my lists and to learn tactics.

Fourth, it would be really stupid for them remove Scum now.

I never talked about removing Scum from the game. Good points and a good post

Scum doesn't destroy the game, Exclusive to scum and rebel only destroys the game.

On March 1, 2017 at 3:10 AM, Managarmr said:

Isn't that precisely the nature of Scum? Stealing things, using them in creative ways, but not matching the reliable effectiveness of the original owner (be it Empire's or Rebel stuff they stole).

Btw, crossovers: recently Rebels got Illicit, and they also are the best bombing faction in the game. Which is theme-wise stupid, because the Empire with its ressources and its doctrine of terror should be supreme in bombing.

Edit: spelling

Did you see Rogue One? The Rebs were mad bombers all over the place!