They never said anything about 'rotation ' yet. I think people are misunderstanding. Or I am miss understanding.

They said each year the new base replaces the old, as in what is available for purchase. If they meant rotate out, they would have said that.

And one print run for expansions is fine, as long as the print run is large enough.

seems a lot of conclusions are being jumped too

1 minute ago, Ywingscum said:

They never said anything about 'rotation ' yet. I think people are misunderstanding. Or I am miss understanding.

They said each year the new base replaces the old, as in what is available for purchase. If they meant rotate out, they would have said that.

There is not talk of rotation from FFG. Only the limited runs that each set will have. Each year we will get a base set and Starters that will be printed all year and 2 limited sets that will only be in print about 4 months. Nothing more or less has come from FFG.

1 minute ago, Ywingscum said:

And one print run for expansions is fine, as long as the print run is large enough.

seems a lot of conclusions are being jumped too

The crux of it.

If the print runs are large enough and the waves are steady enough that there's supply lasting the 4 months between sets no problem.

If they are the same size as Awakenings print runs and stock sells out each wave within a day or two, we're screwed.

4 minutes ago, Ywingscum said:

And one print run for expansions is fine, as long as the print run is large enough.

seems a lot of conclusions are being jumped too

This is my thought exactly. You do 1 print run to keep it collectible. As long as that print run is 4x larger than what Awakenings was then there will be no problem. This should stress the need for everybody to get to their FLGS and actually do pre-orders. Pre-orders will allow FFG to know how much stock they need to print to satisfy demand and everything will be fine.

If Awakenings was considered the first expansion and it's being limited, why should we assume the second expansion will be less limited? There's conclusion jumping in both directions going on.

I'm honestly not sure where I sit on this yet. My LGS pretty much has the same three people winning every casual and OP Tournament now because they were able to get the product on release. The packs are now more than Magic packs there, so it is pricing more folks out of the game. I am also running into so many scammers now online, that even ebay sales are suspect to me.

Might be time to consider taking the money and running.

8 minutes ago, pstalker said:

This is my thought exactly. You do 1 print run to keep it collectible. As long as that print run is 4x larger than what Awakenings was then there will be no problem. This should stress the need for everybody to get to their FLGS and actually do pre-orders. Pre-orders will allow FFG to know how much stock they need to print to satisfy demand and everything will be fine.

But there in lies the problem. People are losing confidence so they are less likely to preorder. After the disastrous initial run alot of people just don't know of FFG can support this game. So if FFG is going to use pre orders to gauge interest then I think this will be a short lived game indeed. At this point in time I think it's up to FFG to launch a massive print to regain customer confidence.

I feel like everyone is also forgetting that we will likely see reprints in the base set since they need to capture some place for people to attain cards they may have missed.

I don't know how to take this about Awakenings. If they mean that they'll have one huge reprint that will be available through 2017? Probably fine. If the 2 "smaller" releases in 2017 will be on shelves until the new 2018 content? Fine.

I am concerned that if there are supply issues long term, this is basically a roadmap for scalpers.

Fingers crossed.

I was one of the loudest complainers asking for news, any news, so am grateful to FFG for the very clear and direct update.

For me, the proposed approach works - to a point. I'm not a tournament player so the whole competition issues don't really effect me.

I play with my son, who absolutely loved the fame in the early stages. He wanted to buy a few packs every now and then to add to his collection and try out new cards. So whilst he wanted the best cards, he really wasn't too bothered about building a complete collection or the perfect deck.

But I have very serious doubts about availability of individual packs any time soon. A 10 yr old kid isn't about to drop £100 on preordering a box months in advance in the hope the store actually receives stock! That's never going to happen. I doubt we'll see many SOR individual packs on sale, and if we do, it will only be for a week or so. That doesn't work for how we planned to build our collection.

Completely appreciate that my circumstances aren't the norm for most potential players.

One other piece about Awakenings. If FFG is "replacing" base sets each year, they have to know that Awakenings will be replaced around six months after it drops by the new base set of 2018, assuming that gets released closed to the start of the year. That makes me wonder how much Awakening will actually be produced.

Of course, it could go the opposite way and Awakenings could be produced in big numbers thus pushing back the 2018 base set.

As several people have pointed out, this announcement actually tells us very little about supply issues in the future. It tells us how they're batching, but says literally nothing about how big the batches are so we have no idea how well it might meet demand.

So it still relies on two things: How much you trust FFG to estimate the demand properly, and whether they have the production capacity to meet that demand. Based on recent history... well...

I find this news to be unfortunate but not too surprising. I fell for the "new hot girlfriend", alot of us did. I neglected my XWing, my IA, my Armada, My PP and Guildball....in short...I jumped in with both feet and bought everything I could find. Somehow though, the release schedule, the set replacement (not sure if that is going to mean set rotation or just that they will stop printing X and only print Y), the entire vibe I am getting is making me realize that I really don't want to be involved in another CCG. I broke free of MTG and never went back and honestly this is starting to give me the same skeezy feeling.

Still on the fence but very, very much leaning toward selling my set and moving on...

I don't have much experience with other CCGs, so I don't know what to expect from a "base" set. Would it be a set pulling popular cards from the previous expansion sets, or would it be all new cards? Or a blend of the two?

This news is making me think if I what to carry on collecting this game as the cards I would like (01 Captain Plasma) is going to be even more expensive to get after this run, we will have to wait and see.

I can't remember the last game I played of destiny as I been playing a lot more X Wing this year then last year.

The real problem I have is there no local shops that sells the packs in my area that I know of, think the closest is Glasgow so am forced to order online and the availability is not good, either sold out since last year and get a few packs every few weeks but are sold out by the time I can order them or they are so expensive that it night be cheaper to order from the States directly.

Am collecting/playing to many FFG for my wallet and running out of storage space too

1 hour ago, RookiePilot said:

I don't have much experience with other CCGs, so I don't know what to expect from a "base" set. Would it be a set pulling popular cards from the previous expansion sets, or would it be all new cards? Or a blend of the two?

My guess is a base set will be a lot of reprints with a few new cards to get people excited about it. This would be a solid fix for the supply issues and getting gamers the cards while still having collectables in the sets.

They also hinted at special products in addition to the scheduled releases. So we could see pre-constructed decks or small greatest hits sets.

Welcome to CCGs, which is why I never wanted this game to be a CCG. Been so much better as a LCG.

this is not how a good ccg is run this is how ffg runs it, so don't blame the ccg model

I'm not sure why you guys think the base sets will reprint anything. Maybe, and it's a big maybe, some tournament staples after a meta is fully formed but awakenings has some pretty OP crap in it with a card or two teetering on broken. I'll bet the farm they learn from this set and the next base set will be no where near as powerful. That's part of a ccg model too gents. The first set is always too good and gets the ban hammer or axed completely.

For what it's worth, in my years of playing FFG games, they have never been able to rush product to market and they nearly always suffer delays. Making projected release dates has improved a lot after the Asmodee merge, but is still obviously far from consistent. And the fastest a reprint has ever reached the shelf was a minimum six months later.

These schedules, while I don't completely view them as a problem, reflect their past, and I feel like we should have expected little else. I don't understand how people didn't expect single printings of expansions. Expansions in collectible are by nature limited print runs. The primary issue now, which they didn't address, is the size of those print runs, which to meet demand must be significantly larger. If they listened, and print 4x as much of future boosters as they did this time, then it will be fine. A year from now, Awakenings cards will be expensive, but that's the nature of the beast. Maybe the situation is not ideal, but the sky is not falling. And At least we have a better idea what to expect now.

13 hours ago, ellhaynes said:

Completely appreciate that my circumstances aren't the norm for most potential players.

Thing is, that SHOULD be the norm. In my past CCG experiences, the guys who bought one or more booster boxes were the exception. Everyone else picked up a few boosters every time they went to the game store. That was the idea. "Oh, hey, Magic boosters are only two bucks, yeah, throw a couple of those in too."

And I know people will say, "But that's a terrible way to try to get all the legendaries." Which is true -- if that's what your goal is. If your goal is just to get cards to play with? Having to have $100+ ready the moment pre-orders go live to have any guarantee of getting product isn't the way to build a player base.

DailyRich hit it on the head, I was on the fence about this game and after reading this thread and the update I don't plan to play it. Not interested in having to compete for product, it should be a fun experience to stop in at the LGS after a long day at work and grab a few booster packs and chat with the guys in there.

Plenty of other games out there with lots of available products and healthy playerbases.

21 hours ago, Stone37 said:

There is not talk of rotation from FFG. Only the limited runs that each set will have. Each year we will get a base set and Starters that will be printed all year and 2 limited sets that will only be in print about 4 months. Nothing more or less has come from FFG.

I agree, I don't think FFG would be crazy enough to do annual rotations for a fledgling game like SWD. Even a game as old as MtG quickly revised their annual rotation policy back to bi-annual due to player outrage..

Besides, FFG really took their sweet time rotating Netrunner sets 5 years after its release.

7 hours ago, soviet prince said:

this is not how a good ccg is run this is how ffg runs it, so don't blame the ccg model

Magic started out like this. Still going strong after what 20+ years?

11 minutes ago, bravo29 said:

Magic started out like this. Still going strong after what 20+ years?

Yeah, and how many CCG's have sh-t the bed and gone under? All except Magic. You can't pretend MTG is a normal thing. That game is a phenomenon. The more I think about this the less I like the model...