so im trying to make a phantom + Upsilon w/ Palpatine and was thinking, if an uncloaked phantom is getting shot at it's getting hit and more red dice are always better, that along with the lower PS ace meta, could something like this be viable?

Echo + Expose + Stygium + gunner

Major Striden + Palpitine + EU

o/c there's more upgrades but these are the ones that matter for this

i have more experience with echo but would that make a difference in this type of list or should i go with wisper?
do you guys think that this list has any chance?

I think it has a solid chance of wasting your effort. Expose is a terrible card. Expose on a Phantom is suicide.

Nothing you equipped on Stridan makes use of his pilot ability. You might as well save points and fly Starkiller Base Pilot.

1 hour ago, jmswood said:

I think it has a solid chance of wasting your effort. Expose is a terrible card. Expose on a Phantom is suicide.

Nothing you equipped on Stridan makes use of his pilot ability. You might as well save points and fly Starkiller Base Pilot.

the bonus of stridan is co-ordenate, which also helps the phantom's action economy

Alas, you can't really afford to put any EPT except VI on Phantoms. They really need to move last so you're sure you're outside all enemy arcs when you decloak, or you're going to eat major damage. If you want to use Echo, even with VI, you better make sure you have a sizable initiative bid. PS8 is still very common, and there are some very popular PS9 pilots around too. I like Whisper with VI best, though I find Echo's ability a lot more useful. Getting to move last and fire first makes or breaks Phantoms.

Expose wastes an action, so using Stridan to regain it will only limit your Phantom's mobility, making it even easier to kill it. I think it's much better to throw a FCS on Echo instead of upgrading SKBP to Stridan. If you really want to keep Echo/Whisper at their native PS, I'd recommend Expertise over Expose. For the same price, 4 rerollable dice + auto-conversion to hits will hit hard enough and you can still use your action on something else, though I don't like the chances of survival for the poor Phantom.

I've never used Gunner on Phantoms before, as with that many dice and FCS it's pretty rare that you'll miss-certainly not enough to justify a 5-point investment. You might want to switch to Agent Kallus or Rebel Captive, or another crew you fancy.

If I were to go with these two ships and extra punch on the phantom, I'd drop expose for opportunist. It's still a little to Janky for competitive play IMO. A lot of defense to help keep ships alive and action economy to keep them token stacked & their opponents target locked.

Kylo Ren (34)
Push the Limit (3)
Sensor Jammer (4)
Hotshot Co-pilot (4)
Systems Officer (2)
Pattern Analyzer (2)
Hyperwave Comm Scanner (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
Kylo Ren's Shuttle (2)

"Echo" (30)
Opportunist (4)
Sensor Jammer (4)
Ysanne Isard (4)
Stygium Particle Accelerator (2)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

10 hours ago, despotic said:

Alas, you can't really afford to put any EPT except VI on Phantoms. They really need to move last so you're sure you're outside all enemy arcs when you decloak, or you're going to eat major damage.

That is meaningless with the FAQ to how decloaking works. You decloak at the start of the activation phase, so pilot skill is not going to help you know if you need to decloak or not because nobody will have moved. Granted, being higher PS will help you barrel roll out of arc, but these things just aren't as maneuverable as they used to be. You've got to commit to your decloak before you reveal the dial, and enemies with boost or barrel roll can usually infer your chosen dial maneuver based on where you decloaked and move to intercept you.

Pilot skill is still important, though, especially if you are using Advanced Cloaking Device. The sooner you can shoot and get your cloak back, the better.

He isn't using ACD.

Zorprime, using stygium and Isard make no sense because you can only perform 1 evade action per turn.

Btw for no standard phantom build (by standard I mean ace+VI+ACD) I consider ps3 one with stygium so you have flanker for 27pts and it can be ok. Problem with no standard builds is that they can be destroyed in single round so you want to spend on it as less points as possible

I get your idea but I think you are better off with pure sabacc with expertise at a 10 point discount. Your echo can decloak; sure, but you are just as vulnerable as a striker with ano extra evade.

On the topic on non-VI phantoms I have always found sensor jammer, lone Wolf and rebel captive an annoying build on echo.

I'll defend my meaningless point for the time being.

8 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

That is meaningless with the FAQ to how decloaking works. You decloak at the start of the activation phase, so pilot skill is not going to help you know if you need to decloak or not because nobody will have moved. Granted, being higher PS will help you barrel roll out of arc, but these things just aren't as maneuverable as they used to be.

The Phantom has been nerfed, but the best loadouts are still very similar. After decloaking, you still get to move last, and that makes it easier to get out of arcs, as you stated. You make the opponent guess rather than telegraphing everything. The opponent can't make mistakes if you don't give him/her a choice. And in case you can't get out of arc, firing first can be the difference between life and death, which again brings up VI.

8 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

You've got to commit to your decloak before you reveal the dial, and enemies with boost or barrel roll can usually infer your chosen dial maneuver based on where you decloaked and move to intercept you.

This is the same type of movement as Adaptive Ailerons, just better, with a different template. It still gives you lots of mobility (especially with Echo), though you have to predict and prioritize targets that are weakened and/or isolated rather than just going wherever you want to be and killing stuff as it used to be. If the player is being predictable, a fragile ship will die, and that's not the ship's fault. Just be unpredictable, play mind games, make your opponent chase you. It's true that the Phantom is no longer the apex predator, so we need to adjust its role accordingly. In my experience it's best to just play it like a super-Striker with cloaking, which requires high PS, and thus VI.

8 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

Pilot skill is still important, though, especially if you are using Advanced Cloaking Device. The sooner you can shoot and get your cloak back, the better.

I agree on that point.