So was doing some reading and it seems for cards like cover up, hospital debts, and wracked by nightmares, given clarification in the FAQ these cards are completably by investigators at your location, not just the person who pulled the weakness.

This is interesting and quite cool but then i took a look at rex's curse while going through and seeing what these affects effected, and it raised a question

Namely weakness cards at locations you are at but not in your threat area that have forced, are they forced on all investigators at that location in the same way all triggered weakness's can be triggered, thereby resulting in rex's curse spreading throughout the group, or does it JUST affect rex, because to me this isnt too clear given the updated clarification in the FAQ on the whole "you" situation.

Thoughts?

Where did you read that other investigators at the same location could completely Cover Up, Hospital Debts, and Wracked by Nightmares? That would be news to me.

The new FAQ.

No - Rex's Curse doesn't specify whom it targets, so "you" refers to the player in whose threat area the card is.

To teamjimby

Reddit thread

Huh, crazy. That is extremely unintuitive to me, but it appears that the rules support it.

I don't think it is answered clearly enough in the rules to fully endorse this - but I do see some reason with it, in that these weaknesses can be tackled by the group - if Skids needs to pay medical debts, there isn't any reason HE has to pay them. This is different then The Necronomicon which, while not an "encounter card" does clearly specify that you take a horror from the book and put it on Daisy Walker, not "put it on your character," which shows that the designers, even when the card was clearly intended to only be connected with 1 character, is still explicitly tied to them... They also do define the "bearer" of a weakness card is the player in whom's deck the card originated from. If they did intend it to be explicitly linked the term was already there to do it.

So I agree with this ruling. I think it is both seemingly in line with the written rules, as well as the spirit of a co-operative game.

As for Rex's Curse - I don't think this applies. Forced is not "activating an ability" but more of an activation the game makes when applicable. Since the card is not in your threat area, I don't think the Forced would trigger when you succeed in the same location as Rex, just as the Forced would not trigger on Chronophobia to injure anyone ending their turn there, and Hospital Debts Forced action does not make everyone who was at that location when the game ends start the next game with 2 fewer experience.

However - I will note that it seems many weaknesses can be beaten with teamwork since anyone could spend 2 actions to beat Chonophobia, Internal Injury, Searching for Izzie, ect...

While it appears legit - I would not be surprised if we receive some more definitive clarity in the next FAQ update if it were intended any other way.

16 hours ago, shosuko said:

I don't think it is answered clearly enough in the rules to fully endorse this

What do you think is unclear about it? The RR says investigators may activate abilities on...

A scenario card that is in play and at the same location as the investigator. This includes the location itself, encounter cards placed at that location, and all encounter cards in the threat area of any investigator at that location.

That seems pretty explicit, IMHO.

As for the question of whether everyone is affected by/can clear Rex's Curse, remember that the effect actually comes from the Revelation effect. You're affected by it when you draw/resolve it - not while it's in your threat area. Putting it in your threat area just keeps it in play, and hence keeps the effect active. It's not explicitly confirmed as an example because there's no such effect, but if some ability could move the treachery to another player's threat area, I believe it would still target/affect the player who drew it.

I would say the part where the rules don't explicitly state it. This is implied by the rules, but it could be more clear. I'm not disagreeing with this interpretation.

The effect of Rex Curse actually comes from the "Force" part on it. This has nothing to do with the revelation. If you could move Rex Curse to another person's threat area I believe it would then trigger in response to that new player's actions instead. Forced keyword is like a Reaction but from the game - it is its own action, and the game triggers it when appropriate. Just as a Reaction states when the player can activate it, a Forced states when the game will activate it.

Forced is not a triggered action so it is not in the scope of this rule.

Quote

(2.1) “You/Your,” expanded
The following guidelines are used to interpret which investigator is referenced by the words “you” and “your.”
• A Revelation ability that references “you/your” refers to the investigator who drew the card and is resolving the ability.
• When resolving a triggered ability ([free], [react], or [action] ability), “you/your” refers to the investigator triggering the ability.
• If an ability contains a clause identifying whom it is targeting, “you/your” in that ability refers to those investigators. For example, Stubborn Detective (Core 103) reads: “While Stubborn Detective is at your location...” this clause identifies “you” as any investigator at his location. Young Deep One reads: “After Young Deep One engages you...” this clause identifies “you” as any investigator who engages Young Deep One.
• Any other instance of “you/your” that does not fall into the above categories refers to the investigator who controls the card, the investigator who has the card in his/her threat area, or who is currently interacting with the card.

Rex's Curse forced ability comes under the last point, so "you" refers to the investigator in whose threat area it is (Rex, since signature cards cannot be traded or given to other investigators - and even if it was, it'd affect the new bearer). On the other hand, weaknesses like Cover Up, Hospital Debts or Wracked by Nightmares have triggered abilities, so they are covered by section 1.2 of the FAQ about triggered abilities (any investigator in the bearer's location can activate them) and "you" will refer to the investigator activating the ability (as per point #2).

Thanks for that - I hunted through the rules for "threat area" and couldn't find anything explicit, the "you" covers it. I happily withdraw my incorrect analysis of the hypothetical

"Rex's Curse" is owned by Rex and in his Threat Zone, so it only affects him.

"Searching for Izzy", "Hospital Debts", etc... are treachery-type cards, a subset of scenario cards. Under Activate Actions, players can use "A scenario card that is in play and at the same location as the investigator."

Hope this clearly answers the question. o/

See below for rules references,

"Activate Action: “Activate” is an action an investigator may take during his or her turn in the investigation phase. When this action is taken, the investigator initiates an ability that specifies one or more [activate] icons as part of its ability cost. The number of [activate] icons in the ability’s cost determines how many actions the investigator is required to use for this activate action. When performing an activate action, all of that action’s costs are simultaneously paid. Then, the consequences of that action resolve. An investigator is permitted to activate abilities from the following sources: A card in play and under his or her control. This includes his or her investigator card. A scenario card that is in play and at the same location as the investigator. This includes the location itself, encounter cards placed at that location, and all encounter cards in the threat area of any investigator at that location. The current act or current agenda card."

"You/Your: An ability on a card in play referencing “you” or “your” refers to the investigator who controls, is engaged with, or is currently interacting with the card. A Revelation ability that references “you” or “your” refers to the investigator who drew the card and is resolving the ability. While resolving an ability initiated by the activate action, “you” or “your” refers to the investigator performing the action."

"You/Your expanded: [for any card that does not specifically refer to who you/your refers to], you/your refers to the investigator who has the card in his/her threat area, or who is currently interacting with the card.

"Ownership and Control: A card’s owner is the player whose deck (or game area) held the card at the start of the game."

"Scenario cards include act cards, agenda cards, location cards, treachery cards, enemy cards, and scenario reference cards."

"Player cards include investigator cards, investigator mini cards, asset cards, event cards, and skill cards."

On 3/1/2017 at 0:53 PM, Buhallin said:

What do you think is unclear about it? The RR says investigators may activate abilities on...

A scenario card that is in play and at the same location as the investigator. This includes the location itself, encounter cards placed at that location, and all encounter cards in the threat area of any investigator at that location.

That seems pretty explicit, IMHO.

Strictly speaking, most Weaknesses are neither scenario cards nor encounter cards.

Edit: Okay, I take this part back. Reading "Weaknesses" again, a Treachery or Enemy weakness is an Encounter card, while Asset, Skill and Event Weaknesses are Player cards. It isn't determined by their deck of origin.

13 hours ago, darkernectron said:

"Searching for Izzy", "Hospital Debts", etc... are treachery-type cards, a subset of scenario cards.

I don't think that's correct. Scenario cards are specific to a scenario. Scenario cards include Treacheries, but that doesn't make all Treacheries scenario cards.

Note I'm only debating the rules here. My understanding from FAQs and fora is that Weaknesses requiring actions can be fulfilled by other investigators as well.

12 minutes ago, CSerpent said:

Strictly speaking, most Weaknesses are neither scenario cards nor encounter cards.

I don't think that's correct. Scenario cards are specific to a scenario. Scenario cards include Treacheries, but that doesn't make all Treacheries scenario cards. Under "Weaknesses", player type and encounter type are distinguished.

Note I'm only debating the rules here. My understanding from FAQs and fora is that Weaknesses requiring actions can be fulfilled by other investigators as well.

You are mistaken. All treacheries and enemies (as well as locations, agendas, acts, story cards and scenario reference cards) are encounter cards, including weaknesses (note that "weakness" is a subtype, rather than a type in its own right). The passage you seem to be referring to (distinguishing encounter-typed weaknesses from player-typed ones) clearly says the former are encounter cards.

Quote

Weaknesses with an encounter cardtype are, like other encounter cards, not controlled by any player. Weaknesses with a player cardtype are controlled by their bearer.

So, despite a lack of definition for "encounter card" in the Reference, we must conclude that it means "card with an encounter card type" (those types being Scenario Reference, Agenda, Act, Location, Treachery, Enemy and Story).

3 minutes ago, Khudzlin said:

You are mistaken. All treacheries and enemies (as well as locations, agendas, acts, story cards and scenario reference cards) are encounter cards, including weaknesses (note that "weakness" is a subtype, rather than a type in its own right). The passage you seem to be referring to (distinguishing encounter-typed weaknesses from player-typed ones) clearly says the former are encounter cards.

So, despite a lack of definition for "encounter card" in the Reference, we must conclude that it means "card with an encounter card type" (those types being Scenario Reference, Agenda, Act, Location, Treachery, Enemy and Story).

Yes, I concede the point.

I think I (and probably others) need a tree chart showing the hierarchy of card types.

1 minute ago, CSerpent said:

I think I (and probably others) need a tree chart showing the hierarchy of card types.

The card types are:

• player cards: Asset, Event, Skill
• encounter cards: Scenario Reference, Agenda, Act, Location, Treachery, Enemy and Story

Weaknesses could theoretically be of any card type, though we've only seen assets, events, treacheries and enemies so far. However, they need a player card back (because they go into a player's deck), so that excludes scenario references, agendas, acts and stories (because those are intrisically double-sided).

3 minutes ago, Khudzlin said:

The card types are:

• player cards: Asset, Event, Skill
• encounter cards: Scenario Reference, Agenda, Act, Location, Treachery, Enemy and Story

Weaknesses could theoretically be of any card type, though we've only seen assets, events, treacheries and enemies so far. However, they need a player card back (because they go into a player's deck), so that excludes scenario references, agendas, acts and stories (because those are intrisically double-sided).

But the rules (Appendix IV) define two card types: Scenario and Player. As far as I can tell, the term "encounter card" is only defined as cards in the encounter deck. And you have things like:

"If the reverse side of the act or agenda is an encounter card". That is senseless if an Agenda or Act is by definition an encounter card.

You see where some people find this confusing.

Quote

Scenario cards include act cards, agenda cards, location cards, treachery cards, enemy cards, and scenario reference cards.

Player cards include investigator cards, investigator mini cards, asset cards, event cards, and skill cards.

Hmm, FFG wording is often sloppy. And "encounter card" is never clearly defined.

2 minutes ago, Khudzlin said:

Hmm, FFG wording is often sloppy. And "encounter card" is never clearly defined.

It has been in FAQ's. Encounter card = scenario card = act, agenda, scenario token reference, weakness, enemy, and location. However, I think that weaknesses in player decks are considered player cards until they're drawn and revealed, though I can't think offhand which situation that matters for.

1 hour ago, Khudzlin said:

Hmm, FFG wording is often sloppy. And "encounter card" is never clearly defined.

Indeed. Another example: the text on Dr Maleson says "When you draw an encounter card...Cancel the drawing of that card and shuffle it back into the encounter deck." That strongly suggests that treacheries and enemies in the player deck are not encounter cards. That, or I can shuffle my unique weakness into the encounter deck....

4 hours ago, Network57 said:

It has been in FAQ's. Encounter card = scenario card = act, agenda, scenario token reference, weakness, enemy, and location. However, I think that weaknesses in player decks are considered player cards until they're drawn and revealed, though I can't think offhand which situation that matters for.

3 hours ago, CSerpent said:

Indeed. Another example: the text on Dr Maleson says "When you draw an encounter card...Cancel the drawing of that card and shuffle it back into the encounter deck." That strongly suggests that treacheries and enemies in the player deck are not encounter cards. That, or I can shuffle my unique weakness into the encounter deck....

Think you found it

2 hours ago, Donel said:

Think you found it

Only if "drawn and revealed" is different than just "drawn". Which may be true -- I was just discussing "draw" vs "reveal" in another thread a few days ago. But "reveal" is just as undefined in the rules as "encounter card" is. "Revelation" has a definition, but it involves "drawing" not "revealing".

The important distinction here is you drew a player card and then it becomes an encounter card after the draw. It wasnt one when you drew it so Dr Maleson does not apply

16 hours ago, CSerpent said:

Indeed. Another example: the text on Dr Maleson says "When you draw an encounter card...Cancel the drawing of that card and shuffle it back into the encounter deck." That strongly suggests that treacheries and enemies in the player deck are not encounter cards. That, or I can shuffle my unique weakness into the encounter deck....

ward of protection Lvl5 specifies, that it works on non-weaknes encouter cards (and it has the same trigger as Maleson), so we are back to sloppy wording...

4 hours ago, Adny said:

ward of protection Lvl5 specifies, that it works on non-weaknes encouter cards (and it has the same trigger as Maleson), so we are back to sloppy wording...

Not entirely. There is the possibility we'll see weaknesses shuffled into the encounter deck. Until then, that additional restriction is redundant but not conflicting.

1 hour ago, Network57 said:

Not entirely. There is the possibility we'll see weaknesses shuffled into the encounter deck. Until then, that additional restriction is redundant but not conflicting.

I seriously doubt it. Weaknesses (like story assets) have a player back (for the same reason: they're meant to be shuffled in a player's deck, not in the encounter deck). Cards with different backs don't get shuffled together (remember that player-backed cards owned by the scenario are removed from the game instead of going to the encounter discard).