From the "old universe" point of view: what the Imperial fleet is actually lacking are more small ships.

Looking at the original movies it is clear that the Empire brings in ISDs and more ISDs when it gets tough, because those are the scariest, hardest hitting, squadron carrying, superior allround vessels.

To free up those ISDs from Outer Rim duty, where not much is happening to rectify the use of a huge ship like this (those things are expensive, you have to save some money if you also want your super-huge planet destroying superweapons built), you need your small patrol vessels to handle the occasional pirate incident.

The NebulonB was such a ship, the Striker and Carrack cruisers. The Gozanti really is the only Imperial ship available to fall into that category.

The Raider is special as an FFG creation, useful for anti-fighter support. It is a cool design and I like it well enough, but in itself it lacks something that the old Lancer frigate had: credibility of the universe as a whole.

Let me explain: During its creation, the Star Wars universe was especially credible because of the used look, the Falcon falling apart, dirty, scum-ridden spaceport, jury-rigged repairs on your old Y-Wings and so on. The Lancer and also the Assault Gunboat with their truly boring designs were EU creations that carried the spirit of a used and dynamic world with them. They were ships the Empire put together in a hurry as a reaction to Rebel hit-and-run attacks which completely exploited the Imperial military doctrine. Put together as fast as possible as a reaction, boring design, mediocre overall performance (slow speed etc.), but it gets the job done. Somewhat credible background, this adds to a dynamic universe where actual new developments occur based on short term need.

The current design philosophy seems to be more along these lines: Imperial stuff must be triangle-shaped because it looks cooler, all Rebel fighters have been along all the time, just in different cells (A-Wings) and have bit been freshly developed based on need and so on. It just feels kind of static.

Wow, this got long and off-topic in the end. Sorry for the rant. I am glad that Star Wars is very much alive and going strong, I just find the universe changes lacking in some points. Please don't kill me in the replies!

An Ackbar mc80 assault variant doesn't really hit harder, honestly. It's one red more and one less blue. Slightly higher maximum in exchange for a slightly less reliable roll.

And if we're counting upgrades and admirals, then I'll have to counter with Motti and Reinforced Blast Doors for an incredible 17 hull, with only 3 less shields in total. Damage control officer can be placed on an ISD just as well as it can on an MC80. Leading shots and Spinal armaments give a more powerful main shot, and more consistent as well, or h9s can be placed to allow popping flotillas at long range. Gunnery teams gives it an ability to leverage it's firepower almost equal to the mc80.

Also, the ability of the mc80 to pop 2 flotillas is ridiculously contrived. It's much more likely to find a chance to do so with a gunnery teams isd. And the ability to shoot a Ship and put 2 blue AA dice into a fighter swarm is not to be underestimated.

How about that 200 point pickle.

2 hours ago, RocketPropelledGiraffe said:

The Lancer and also the Assault Gunboat with their truly boring designs were EU creations that carried the spirit of a used and dynamic world with them. They were ships the Empire put together in a hurry as a reaction to Rebel hit-and-run attacks which completely exploited the Imperial military doctrine. Put together as fast as possible as a reaction, boring design, mediocre overall performance (slow speed etc.), but it gets the job done. Somewhat credible background, this adds to a dynamic universe where actual new developments occur based on short term need.

I don't follow this. First, the Assault Gunboat is hardly a "truly boring design"- it's one of the most beautiful fighters in the Imperial navy that follows the elegance of the design ethos without being yet another TIE Fighter.

Second, this fighter in Legends was pre-yavin. It appeared in the X-Wing flight simulator games that covered the campaign leading up to the battle at Yavin. Unitl the development of the TIE Defender, the Assault Gunboat was a reliable special operations fighter that fought just as well as the Rebel fighters did, in part because it has many of their characteristics. Concussion missiles made it as lethal as it was, because those missiles were almost impossible to dodge. There is no indication that the XG was rushed into production, either. If anything it was limited for its special operations role, one eventually replaced with the elite TIE Defender had that fighter not run into the production issues it did (and if the Emperor had not died).

4 hours ago, Onidsen said:

An Ackbar mc80 assault variant doesn't really hit harder, honestly. It's one red more and one less blue. Slightly higher maximum in exchange for a slightly less reliable roll.

And if we're counting upgrades and admirals, then I'll have to counter with Motti and Reinforced Blast Doors for an incredible 17 hull, with only 3 less shields in total. Damage control officer can be placed on an ISD just as well as it can on an MC80. Leading shots and Spinal armaments give a more powerful main shot, and more consistent as well, or h9s can be placed to allow popping flotillas at long range. Gunnery teams gives it an ability to leverage it's firepower almost equal to the mc80.

Also, the ability of the mc80 to pop 2 flotillas is ridiculously contrived. It's much more likely to find a chance to do so with a gunnery teams isd. And the ability to shoot a Ship and put 2 blue AA dice into a fighter swarm is not to be underestimated.

All good points, but I still feel they are not flexible enough in where they can shoot from. It is relatively easy to stay out of an ISD front arc, but there is no matching the area denial that the pickle provides, and it can keep wailing even after the initial pass, when the ISD is kinda SOL at that point. Plus, the ISD gets EITHER Blast doors OR ECM, not both.

And as for popping two flotillas a round, I've done it much more often with the death pickle than an ISD as you can shove it right in between the enemy formation and wreak havoc, whereas (for me at least) the ISD gets one good round of firing before everything is past it

5 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:

How about that 200 point pickle.

I love expensive pickles.....

Does that sound wired.

4 minutes ago, Rune Taq said:

I love expensive pickles.....

Does that sound wired.

Nah

Sounds wierd though

Bring me a SSD for the Empire and a Dauntless for the Reb's!!!

the biggest problem is that theres very few competitive ways to bring 2 isd and not be a gimpy list with an obvious weakness to either MSU or Squadrons

12 hours ago, Norsehound said:

I don't follow this. First, the Assault Gunboat is hardly a "truly boring design"- it's one of the most beautiful fighters in the Imperial navy that follows the elegance of the design ethos without being yet another TIE Fighter.

Second, this fighter in Legends was pre-yavin. It appeared in the X-Wing flight simulator games that covered the campaign leading up to the battle at Yavin. Unitl the development of the TIE Defender, the Assault Gunboat was a reliable special operations fighter that fought just as well as the Rebel fighters did, in part because it has many of their characteristics. Concussion missiles made it as lethal as it was, because those missiles were almost impossible to dodge. There is no indication that the XG was rushed into production, either. If anything it was limited for its special operations role, one eventually replaced with the elite TIE Defender had that fighter not run into the production issues it did (and if the Emperor had not died).

the white 5 wing thingie. its so beautiful.

(man we have unpopular opinions)

I never said I did not like the AG. But essentially the three-winged starship basic design is about as vanilla as it gets. T-Wing, Colonial Viper, heck even the Space Shuttle Orbiter. AG adds two very small winglets to it. It still is elegant, but also very much not fitting in the Imperial design philosophy nor their basic military doctrine.

The EU did not give a lot of information about development of the AG as far as I remember. One of the magazines about the starships I remember reading as a kid mentioned their hyper drive capability as essential point to deflect hit and run attack by running fighter escorts on the outskirts of larger convoys. I don't even remember the German title of that publication, much less what the English original could have been. I guess I'll just stop derailing this thread and stick to my own fond memories.

Well, the two rebel large ships are actually different ships. Isnt the only Large ship the imperials use thats even remotely possible scale-wise in this game the ISD?

The ISD should have like 15 titles. I still say they should be adding a title in each Imp box. Especially since one of the 3 we got is abysmal and another is highly situational.

On 25/02/2017 at 9:21 PM, Marinealver said:

So are the Rebs getting bigger than the Imps?

Rebels have more variety of large ships. This is nice and fluffy since wasn't each Mon Cal ship unique? Imperials mass produced Star Destroyers. There could be an ISD-I model though but we already have the ship card.

1 hour ago, Vineheart01 said:

The ISD should have like 15 titles. I still say they should be adding a title in each Imp box. Especially since one of the 3 we got is abysmal and another is highly situational.

I agree more titles are needed and would be a good way to get the missing variety in the Imperial fleet.

8 hours ago, Sasajak said:

Rebels have more variety of large ships. This is nice and fluffy since wasn't each Mon Cal ship unique? Imperials mass produced Star Destroyers. There could be an ISD-I model though but we already have the ship card.

I agree more titles are needed and would be a good way to get the missing variety in the Imperial fleet.

As far as I know the Mon Calamari ships are not 100% unique but close. There are a few or several of each type. For example MC80a mc80b and mc80c. Each subclass has more than one but the principle is correct. Rebs are a mismatched hogpog of ships. Lots of variety

I can't help but think this topic is a tasteless shot at Tyrion Lannister.

10 hours ago, Sekac said:

I can't help but think this topic is a tasteless shot at Tyrion Lannister.

I can't help but think nobody should shoot at Tyrion Lannister, they should rather target Mr Martin with their jests...

#Getonwithwriting #StillnoWindsofWinter #Respectyourreaders

On 2/26/2017 at 4:38 PM, MandalorianMoose said:

All good points, but I still feel they are not flexible enough in where they can shoot from. It is relatively easy to stay out of an ISD front arc, but there is no matching the area denial that the pickle provides, and it can keep wailing even after the initial pass, when the ISD is kinda SOL at that point. Plus, the ISD gets EITHER Blast doors OR ECM, not both.

And as for popping two flotillas a round, I've done it much more often with the death pickle than an ISD as you can shove it right in between the enemy formation and wreak havoc, whereas (for me at least) the ISD gets one good round of firing before everything is past it

I don't want to come across as snarky, I'm genuinely curious. Do you actually get decent returns on running a ship that comprises half your list straight into the middle of a formation just to kill flotillas? It just strikes me as a little suicidal.

Also, if you think ISDs are easy to avoid, you clearly haven't played against Jerjerrod yet ?

1 hour ago, FatherTurin said:

I don't want to come across as snarky, I'm genuinely curious. Do you actually get decent returns on running a ship that comprises half your list straight into the middle of a formation just to kill flotillas? It just strikes me as a little suicidal.

Also, if you think ISDs are easy to avoid, you clearly haven't played against Jerjerrod yet ?

No it's a fair question, and one that I had been asking myself during construction of the list, but after playing it I've found the payoff to be well worth it. Taking two to three of the enemies activations off the board, especially ones with important upgrades like BCC or even an admiral, that early into the game can give me a huge leg up for the following rounds. Doubly so when they are relying on those flotillas to push squads, which allows my modest screen of 5 a-wings and Tycho to last that much longer. I've also one shotted CR-90's, Arquitens, and even an MC30 with it so it can go after more than just flotillas, although those are it's prime targets, like a whale eating krill and plankton haha. It's also good at stripping shields from bigger ships and setting them up for the finishing blow from Landmonition.

This is the full list if you are interested.

MC80 Assault Cruiser (114 points)
- Damage Control Officer ( 5 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 151 total ship cost

[ flagship ] GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Admiral Ackbar ( 38 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 58 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
= 18 total ship cost

MC30c Scout Frigate (69 points)
- Admonition ( 8 points)
- Lando Calrissian ( 4 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 102 total ship cost

1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points)
5 A-Wing Squadrons ( 55 points)

Yeah, I think I want to try that, even if it's just for fun. I've used a Liberty to hunt small ships before, just never occurred to me to use a "normal" MC80

Two pages is long enough for me throw this one out there.

If rebs are bigger, then you can be sure I am rebs. (Size and faction)

Wahey

It definitley started out as a "for funsies" list for me, but I quickly realized how well it actually all worked together. The one thing I'm still undecided on for the list is swapping RBD on the shrimp for Defiance on the pickle for leading shots at long range, that has definitely helped me out before

On 2/27/2017 at 6:30 PM, Sekac said:

I can't help but think this topic is a tasteless shot at Tyrion Lannister.

You just invoked a special edition idea of Tyrion Lanister in Jabba's Palace with Juri Juice and making a pass at Lyn Me and Oola.

4 hours ago, Marinealver said:

You just invoked a special edition idea of Tyrion Lanister in Jabba's Palace with Juri Juice and making a pass at Lyn Me and Oola.

A far less irritating jester than salacious crumb. You've got my vote.