26 minutes ago, Lobokai said:

Well, I disagree with the sentiment of some.

The EU was saturated in crappy, over the top, established lore violating, Mary Sue, junk. If I'm Disney, I'd have done the same.

Cancel it all. Then cherry pick what you like. Otherwise you spend thousands of hours sifting through so much, garbage, paralyzing your creative process, and everyone's going to get angry everytime something old is retconned.

I agree that there was some, maybe even alot, of crap in the old EU. But the vast majority was pretty good storytelling and by the time of its erasure, pretty much engrained into the fabric of Star Wars. And as far as the time it would have taken to make everything line up, that's not really a problem. Just read wookieepedia or talk to Pablo Hidalgo (who works at Lucasfilm as part of the story group whose sole job is to make sure the story has continuity) or talk to one of literally thousands like me who have read all the EU and can tell you almost anything you want to know. They could have gone to comic Con or held an online contest and found someone who would have killed for the chance to get paid to spend thousands of hours researching, rewriting, retconning, and generally making the EU work. And as far as paralysing your creative process, that is just rubbish. There are millions of planets and trillions of beings/species to draw from. Make a story how ever you want from a certain timeframe on. No problem.

Well, honestly, Pablo said it best. "Canon" is just the rules other people made up your story has to follow. Disney decided since they were actively going to produce content for what is now their brand, including films, they didn't want to have to hold to rules used by people from all across the timeline who were held back by people in other places, etc, etc. It's a very sound business move, and including people like Pablo from the ol' WEG days and other early EU materials means there's a lot of influence to put good content and references back in.

Stuff is getting back in, it's just being reshuffled and reworked and I think doing it the way they did is probably the best way to go.

The EU was 75-80% crap.

Poorly written and constantly ignoring stuff that came before it.

Disney did the right thing. And cherrypicking isn't "disrespectful". Calling it disrespectful only shows that you're a simplistic grognard who cannot adapt to change and has a severe case of nostalgia glasses.

We now have a cohesive canon, where books, games, shows, and movies all actually fit together instead of constantly rewriting what came before it so some hackjob author could self-insert their mary-sue/gary-stu.

42 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

Well, honestly, Pablo said it best. "Canon" is just the rules other people made up your story has to follow. Disney decided since they were actively going to produce content for what is now their brand, including films, they didn't want to have to hold to rules used by people from all across the timeline who were held back by people in other places, etc, etc. It's a very sound business move, and including people like Pablo from the ol' WEG days and other early EU materials means there's a lot of influence to put good content and references back in.

This is true, but it sets a bad precedent. Eventually Disney will be in the exact same situation that they were in when they bought Star Wars. In thirty years, they will have painted themselves into the proverbial corner and have to do a Star Wars "reboot" in order to tell "new" stories.

3 minutes ago, TheRabidAardvark said:

The EU was 75-80% crap.

Poorly written and constantly ignoring stuff that came before it.

Disney did the right thing. And cherrypicking isn't "disrespectful". Calling it disrespectful only shows that you're a simplistic grognard who cannot adapt to change and has a severe case of nostalgia glasses.

We now have a cohesive canon, where books, games, shows, and movies all actually fit together instead of constantly rewriting what came before it so some hackjob author could self-insert their mary-sue/gary-stu.

Well as one of the many "simplistic grognards", I disagree that 75-80% of the old EU was crap. Maybe it's my "severe case of nostalgia glasses" but I rather like lots of the old EU. Was it all great? Of course not, but neither is the new canon. Some of the new canon is just this generations "hackjob author" self-inserting their Mary Sue. How about you just keep your opinion - and make no mistake- that is all it is- to yourself and try not to be so disrespectful of the opposite opinion.

Personally, I think that some of the best stories in the EU were those set within the timeline of the original trilogy.

It's when various different authors tried to take the timeline forward after Return of the Jedi that things got errrhm, messy.

3 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Spot on for the most part. However given the new movies and what not what is left from those movies without dipping into prequels (which we have with the ARC-170) and the Legends (which came before the Disney buyout)?

• Rebel Lambda Shuttle (RotJ)
• Resistance recon shuttle/b-wing fighter (TFA)
• Those pirate boarding starfighters from TFA
• Rebel Orange B-wing prototype (Rebels)
• 1stOrder Storm Trooper dropship (TFA)
• Maybe a Scum TIE Fighter (although the Sabine one sort of fills that role)

There will be more movies but for each movie FFG will have 2 ships already out so unless a movie brings more than 2 ships there isn't much more for the standard waves which has a minimum of three ships if not 4 for Scum to keep up. Rogue One gave us two ships but those were only for the movie waves. So for other releases Rogue One gave us no new ships.

So with the above statement there was enough for two waves before we ran out, and most of them don't sound surprisingly good. So Legends and Prequels may be tapped more for source material as this game moves along.

The Nu Class Transport/ Attack Shuttle is in Rebels (Cham Syndulla uses it).

The Scurrg is not in the movies, but in Armada.

There is the Saw Gerrera Astromech-less T65 in R1, but not sure how and why this ship could/should be incorporated into X-wing.

4 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

The Nu Class Transport/ Attack Shuttle is in Rebels (Cham Syndulla uses it).

The Scurrg is not in the movies, but in Armada.

There is the Saw Gerrera Astromech-less T65 in R1, but not sure how and why this ship could/should be incorporated into X-wing.

I wouldn't mind the Nu class or Scurrg, but I have no desire for a third unusable xwing.

3 minutes ago, JJFDVORAK said:

I wouldn't mind the Nu class or Scurrg, but I have no desire for a third unusable xwing.

Especially an X-wing without the astromech slot. That sounds like just the worst.

31 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Especially an X-wing without the astromech slot. That sounds like just the worst.

An "astromechless"(it's a word, look it up) Xwing would be the worst. Or they would make it too good and it would be the only playable xwing, which would be ridiculous.

1 hour ago, TheRabidAardvark said:

The EU was 75-80% crap.

Poorly written and constantly ignoring stuff that came before it.

Disney did the right thing. And cherrypicking isn't "disrespectful". Calling it disrespectful only shows that you're a simplistic grognard who cannot adapt to change and has a severe case of nostalgia glasses.

We now have a cohesive canon, where books, games, shows, and movies all actually fit together instead of constantly rewriting what came before it so some hackjob author could self-insert their mary-sue/gary-stu.

The erasure of a huge line of books, video games, and comics isn't disrespectful, but calling me a "simplistic grognard" is? Buddy, Obi-Wan Kenobi had higher ground than you do here, best to not lash out in anger, lest you get your legs cut off by a lightsaber.

56 minutes ago, JJFDVORAK said:

I wouldn't mind the Nu class or Scurrg, but I have no desire for a third unusable xwing.

I agree, the Nu and Scurrg would be nice, but I'm not sure there's any viability in an X-Wing without an astromech. Now what might be nice is a modified Z-95 with S-foils, as that was a thing in the EU, but even then that's hard to justify.

In my original list of ships I left out the Razor Starfighter for Scum, and the DX-9 Stormtrooper transport for both the Empire and Scum. Those would be nice to see.

3 hours ago, JJFDVORAK said:

This is true, but it sets a bad precedent. Eventually Disney will be in the exact same situation that they were in when they bought Star Wars. In thirty years, they will have painted themselves into the proverbial corner and have to do a Star Wars "reboot" in order to tell "new" stories.

Yes. And then they can tell new and remixed stories. And the whole of the body of Star Wars will be richer for it.

That's literally how myths and legends and folktales happen and grow. We're just in a weird position to be watching it in real time.

13 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:

Yes. And then they can tell new and remixed stories. And the whole of the body of Star Wars will be richer for it.

That's literally how myths and legends and folktales happen and grow. We're just in a weird position to be watching it in real time.

This is a very good point. That doesn't mean I can't be grumpy about it!

9 minutes ago, JJFDVORAK said:

This is a very good point. That doesn't mean I can't be grumpy about it!

Truthfully, had stuff not started to make its way back in (Thrawn, Steele, etc), I'd had been chapped too. But it has, and since its been well reinserted IMO and fairly soon... I'm optimistic that things will head in the right direction with slow EU cameos to come.

An interesting related conversation. Disney and Netflix are possibly discussing a live action KOTOR project. Should this show air, the ships/characters become canon and would likely be utilised by FFG. We may see some of the characters/ships from KOTOR I and II on the table.

I know some people are challenged by the time line on the FFG table (eg. Porkins flying alongside Poe). How would we feel about a much wider timeline .. if these EU ships became canon and picked up by FFG.

6 hours ago, TheRabidAardvark said:

The EU was 75-80% crap.

Poorly written and constantly ignoring stuff that came before it.

Disney did the right thing. And cherrypicking isn't "disrespectful". Calling it disrespectful only shows that you're a simplistic grognard who cannot adapt to change and has a severe case of nostalgia glasses.

We now have a cohesive canon, where books, games, shows, and movies all actually fit together instead of constantly rewriting what came before it so some hackjob author could self-insert their mary-sue/gary-stu.

75-80% crap? I would choose to disagree. I'll give you 20%.

They did a great job building off of things from previous novels. Especially once Del Ray took over.

Disrespectful? No, but lazy imho.

Cohesive canon? Hard for me to back this up with facts since I have read no disney canon novel/comics. But I've been told there's been plenty of little inconsistencies.

I love how you mock the EU for using Mary Sues when you have a huge one in Rey.

1 hour ago, Conandoodle said:

An interesting related conversation. Disney and Netflix are possibly discussing a live action KOTOR project. Should this show air, the ships/characters become canon and would likely be utilised by FFG. We may see some of the characters/ships from KOTOR I and II on the table.

I know some people are challenged by the time line on the FFG table (eg. Porkins flying alongside Poe). How would we feel about a much wider timeline .. if these EU ships became canon and picked up by FFG.

Considering they won't add ships from less than 2 decades in the past (which I heavily disagree with), extremely unlikely they'd add ships from centuries in the past.

However IF they start adding prequel/clone war era ships and IF they actually make such a TV show, then I'd be all for adding those ships to the game as well eventually.

1 hour ago, arkhamssaber said:

75-80% crap? I would choose to disagree. I'll give you 20%.

They did a great job building off of things from previous novels. Especially once Del Ray took over.

Disrespectful? No, but lazy imho.

Cohesive canon? Hard for me to back this up with facts since I have read no disney canon novel/comics. But I've been told there's been plenty of little inconsistencies.

I love how you mock the EU for using Mary Sues when you have a huge one in Rey.

Lazy for sure. And I agree, the vast majority of EU was great! For the most part everything once fairly consistent, and there weren't many major discrepancies between the games and books that were released.

4 hours ago, Punning Pundit said:

Yes. And then they can tell new and remixed stories. And the whole of the body of Star Wars will be richer for it.

That's literally how myths and legends and folktales happen and grow. We're just in a weird position to be watching it in real time.

Yes, myths and legends would be changed and twisted around throughout history, but that was mainly due to stories being passed down by word of mouth hundreds upon hundreds of years ago. Everything that we have now that's related to telling stories is written down, or recorded in one form or another and can be referenced easily. We aren't seeing a growth, we're seeing a re-hash of ideas that already existed. Disney's content is little more than a glorified remake, and only a small percentage of the greater Star Wars community will be able to recognize it as such. If Disney wanted to label their new lore as an alternate reality, or actually call their work a reimagining, or remake, then all power to them. If they really cared about the community, then they could have found a way to incorporate events in the EU directly into movies, just by following a different cast of characters. Wouldn't it have been great if the Star Wars community could have been brought together as a whole? Rather than further dividing us? Unfortunately, they've left the lore of Legends behind in the dust. Only FFG and Bioware can continue making new lore in the Expanded Universe, and that's not right.

3 hours ago, Conandoodle said:

An interesting related conversation. Disney and Netflix are possibly discussing a live action KOTOR project. Should this show air, the ships/characters become canon and would likely be utilised by FFG. We may see some of the characters/ships from KOTOR I and II on the table.

I know some people are challenged by the time line on the FFG table (eg. Porkins flying alongside Poe). How would we feel about a much wider timeline .. if these EU ships became canon and picked up by FFG.

1 hour ago, markcsoul said:

Considering they won't add ships from less than 2 decades in the past (which I heavily disagree with), extremely unlikely they'd add ships from centuries in the past.

However IF they start adding prequel/clone war era ships and IF they actually make such a TV show, then I'd be all for adding those ships to the game as well eventually.

I'd love to see large set expansions for X-Wing Miniatures that go back to the Clone Wars and Old Republic eras, and that'd really be the only way they'd consider releasing ships from a little over 3000 years ago. I doubt they'd release expansions like that until they couldn't release any more ships from the Galactic Civil War era though. More Clone Wars era ships would make sense, but depending on how many they'd want to make I say those should be a large-scale expansion too.

8 hours ago, JJFDVORAK said:

I wouldn't mind the Nu class or Scurrg, but I have no desire for a third unusable xwing.

As I said:

" There is the Saw Gerrera Astromech-less T65 in R1, but not sure how and why this ship could/should be incorporated into X-wing. "

I do not think there is a place for it gamewise.

13 hours ago, CosmicCastawayA90 said:

I agree. This is the problem I have with having to wait for Disney to re-incorporate the EU into their cannon. They simply shouldn't be re-incorporating anything in the first place. If they were going to wipe out the EU, then that should have been the end of it. Yet they rip from the EU consistently. Why then, did they decide to scrap the EU in the first place, if they aren't original enough to come up with their own ideas?

This is why I'd like to see some more EU ships in the game, even if there are only a few of them left that'd be noticeable for the Galactic Civil War era. I want to be able to see a more complete collection of the EU lore in the game, and I think there'd be a decent amount of ships that have a purpose within the game mechanics as well.

I am afraid that it was Disney's plan from the beginning to wipe out the EU and then reintroduce it back in different products to get paid again for stories they already have its simple business nothing more nothing less.

I'm puzzled by the repeated critique that 1) Disney wiped out the EU and at the same time 2) presented a story that is the same as the EU and uses EU characters. These two cannot be both correct.

Half the X-Wing MG is based on Legends (specially Scum). Why stop it now? Is not that we have many new canon (good) options for the game...

PS: I want my Gunboat.

There's a reason they now refer to the stories of the EU as legends: there are some good stories in there; and some bad ones. It got so big that it was impossible to know everything that went on, and people mixed up and crossed over other people's stories and told conflicting tales of the same events. It makes sense that a new publisher wanting to make a cohesive story out of the universe, without the mixups of "book A says this but game B implies otherwise" would remove the non-iconic parts of the old design, and rewrite the stories.

Disney acknowledges that there were good parts of the EU, otherwise they wouldn't borrow characters and other stuff - it's not disrespecting the old canon, but fan service to good characters. Take Thrawn for example, he got de-canonised and re-added in a way that works with Ep VII-IX (i.e. He moved time period, because he wouldn't fit in the Aftermath series) and appears in Rebels. He is effectively a new character because they can write new stories - but using the guy some people will recognise generates hype and allow for new storytelling.

To put it into a different context, if I was an author and had to rewrite the Marvel or DC universe, there's so much that would need to be taken out because it doesn't work together. It would be better to completely start over, take a set of novels/comics/films/games that we know all fits together, then rebuild around it. Some parts of the comics that had been removed can be re-added, but better to remove then re-add than spend years selectively removing stuff.