I'm facing an issue - I have enough money only to buy one shuttle. I would like to receive your opinion about both shuttles - which do you consider better overally or on the specific fields. I do not have Palpatine yet (but either way I usually play friendly matches) . I would like you to treat this topic not only as a buyers advice, but also as a chance to compare both shuttles. I have almost every small Imperial ship and a Gozanti, but no big ships. I feel that now, in this particular moment, Upsilon shuttle vel Batmobile seems a better choice (but I'm not sure whether is that caused by you - the Respected Community - who are now talking about U all the time, as it is a so called "new hotness" ;)).

Please, tell me which one is better in what and why? Which one would you advise to buy as a first shuttle?

My question is about the build you are going for. The UP can stand on its own for raw damage, the Shuttle is a budget large ship. If your willing to dump into 40-60 points into one go with the up, if you want something 21-35 the shuttle is better. A classic build is throwing vader on the shuttle or an HLC because they work well and have a higher damage out put. Something I have been toying with is running the up with Vader and a bunch of other toys to throw 9 damage a turn.

This is my Up build, which is nuts but I get to change most of the dice I throw and using Vader to dish out the crits. Base attack is 4 add the 2 from the ties and vader gives 7. At range 1 its 8 and with anti pur its 9 in a turn which is lovely. Omega is a budget ace and a pain to deal with. Kylo has an EPT which is abusive in nature and should never have been included. (hull upgrade and reinforced help soak up damage, but anti pur lasers or counter are both good.)

Kylo Ren — Upsilon-class Shuttle 34
Swarm Leader 3
Reinforced Deflectors 3
Darth Vader 3
Agent Kallus 2
Weapons Guidance 2
Pattern Analyzer 2
Hull Upgrade 3
Kylo Ren's Shuttle 2
Ship Total: 54

Academy Pilot — TIE Fighter 12
Ship Total: 12

Academy Pilot — TIE Fighter 12
Ship Total: 12

"Omega Leader" — TIE/fo Fighter 21
Ship Total: 21

The shuttle has a couple fun builds, a few below are great ideas. (when I played in torns back with my shuttles I loved running a couple of Ion cannons because its so many hps with stop, you just chase things off the board) Kallus/Merc Mangler is a fun time for crits.

Omicron Group Pilot — Lambda-Class Shuttle 21
Heavy Laser Cannon 7
Engine Upgrade 4
Ship Total: 32

Omicron Group Pilot — Lambda-Class Shuttle 21
Darth Vader 3
Hull Upgrade 3
Ship Total: 27

Omicron Group Pilot — Lambda-Class Shuttle 21
Heavy Laser Cannon 7
Agent Kallus 2
Ship Total: 30

Omicron Group Pilot — Lambda-Class Shuttle 21
"Mangler" Cannon 4
Mercenary Copilot 2
Agent Kallus 2
Ship Total: 29

In competitive - tournament environment only viable build for Lambda is Palp Shuttle carrying the Emperor.

Upsilon-class Shuttle has much more interesting builds and more interesting cards inside. It's not verified properly on competitive scene yet tho.

Since you play friendly matches more often, and don't have Palpatine card I would go for Upsilon-class as it has more customization options and its look is bad-ass

Thanks for your reply! Your U build looks as pretty fun to fly! I guess that Lambda is almost strictly a support ship, unable to do much by itself, while Upsilon may really change the course of the game with its heavy guns and better manouverability.

When I think of what I would like to use, considering I bought a Lambda, I would run some kind of Palp aces - Sontir, Vader, maybe Defenders or Inqui+OL+Wampa.

On the other hand I look on the Upsilon builds, which have lately shown up on the forum. They use "smaller" aces and eg. Kylo Ren or Hux and are based also on the Upsilon's firepower. The choice is tough really, as all the builds look entertaining.

1 minute ago, Jedu said:

Thanks for your reply! Your U build looks as pretty fun to fly! I guess that Lambda is almost strictly a support ship, unable to do much by itself, while Upsilon may really change the course of the game with its heavy guns and better manouverability.

When I think of what I would like to use, considering I bought a Lambda, I would run some kind of Palp aces - Sontir, Vader, maybe Defenders or Inqui+OL+Wampa.

On the other hand I look on the Upsilon builds, which have lately shown up on the forum. They use "smaller" aces and eg. Kylo Ren or Hux and are based also on the Upsilon's firepower. The choice is tough really, as all the builds look entertaining.

You got it, they can both be really good in the right sit. I would feel incomplete without both so I hope one day you can aquire them together.

I think anyone suggesting Vader on the Upsilon missed the part where you can only buy one of them....

Edit: FWIW I recommend the Upsilon. You nailed the main difference I see: Lambda is support, Upsilon is a centerpiece. Upsilon opens up qualitatively different lists while Lambda is a piece that supports existing Imp Ace lists.

Yes.

The "problem" as stated above is that the Vader crew card comes with the Lambda Shuttle... also you get a HLC, AdvSens and Sensor Jammer. The Upsilon has more fun builds and Major Stridan and Hux are incredibly fun support builds for a mini swarm. I think in terms of upgrades the Lambda is a good choice and you can always fit a 21 point naked shuttle in a list whereas the Upsilon will always be a big part in your list... the named U pilots are more fun and versatile though. it is a tough choice indeed Being a classic Star Wars fan myself I could however not imagine getting the Batwing before the original shuttle

ps: this thread makes me wanna fly the doom shuttle again

17 minutes ago, Space Dragn said:

The "problem" as stated above is that the Vader crew card comes with the Lambda Shuttle... also you get a HLC, AdvSens and Sensor Jammer. The Upsilon has more fun builds and Major Stridan and Hux are incredibly fun support builds for a mini swarm. I think in terms of upgrades the Lambda is a good choice and you can always fit a 21 point naked shuttle in a list whereas the Upsilon will always be a big part in your list... the named U pilots are more fun and versatile though. it is a tough choice indeed Being a classic Star Wars fan myself I could however not imagine getting the Batwing before the original shuttle

ps: this thread makes me wanna fly the doom shuttle again

Your all correct with Vader, Sorry I was just listing some ideas. If a game is for fun and you don't have everything its never a terrible thing to ask if you can proxy card before hand. Seeing you have a Gozanti you have Kallus and that's still an outstanding crew, though Vader is totally worth buying a Lambda for.

@Jedu - how often do you plan to play tournaments where having the right upgrade cards is mandatory? If this is not really your goal, then the remarks about what cards come in each supplement can be duly ignored, because a printout from a site like Yet Another Squadbuilder etc. will do just fine or even better (thinking about the mess of cards at some tables). If you simply want the most competitive package, the best choice depends on the meta, I think...the Upsilon might be the safest gamble because it contains the most modern upgrades, and the game suffers from power creep.

I tend to go for the ship I like and then I try to find some way to make it work. With varying success, it has to be said. I think the Upsilon is a slightly more versatile ship, in that you can do more different things with it? I'm very partial to that one though - I think it looks amazing on the tabletop, especially with some TIE/fos next to it. Do you like The Force Awakens? If not, then I'd go for the Lambda, it's a clear reference to two classic movies. Darth Vader's march!

The Lambda is cheaper in terms of points (and money too, IIRC) so it gives the most versatility in the kinds of squads it can support. You just can't fit as much next to an Upsilon. To compensate, the Upsilon is better than the Lambda at getting things in its firing arc, but it will have to do more. So if there is a bright center to the playing area, the Upsilon is not the ship that is farthest from.

15 minutes ago, Verlaine said:

@Jedu - how often do you plan to play tournaments where having the right upgrade cards is mandatory? If this is not really your goal, then the remarks about what cards come in each supplement can be duly ignored, because a printout from a site like Yet Another Squadbuilder etc. will do just fine or even better (thinking about the mess of cards at some tables).

I play 1-2 serious tournaments per year (by serious I mean ones, where cards cannot be proxied). And yes, I agree that taking all of the cards with you might be messy - especially when playing epic! Eventually I'm going to have both shuttles but I think it will take me at least a year from now and I'm becoming more and more impatient. To be honest, I think that FFG releases too many ships too fast. On the other hand, I check forum and their site everyday to see if there are news about new releases

And also, I love both the classic Trilogy and The Force Awakens - but the latter a bit less, as it is too much of New Hope in new dress

All of the ups pilots are interesting and potentially viable. The lambda only has the generic and captain yorr for standard play. As long as you take electronic baffle and fly aggressively lambda can be a hell of a ship and it certainly played an active roll for me when I was flying palp aces. I do think you'll get more interesting builds out of the ups so I advise that one first but don't dismiss the combat potential of a baffled lambda when you get one, it's aggressive and valuable when flown properly.

For me, the white hard turns on the UPS are the deciding factor. The difficulty in turning the Lambda make it hard to use as anything other than a support ship.

If you want a ride for Palp, get the Lambda. If you want a more flexible and useful support ship, get the UPS. Worth bearing in mind that the Lambda comes with Vader and the UPS with Kylo, both are great crew cards that can really make enemy aces sweat.

I would buy the Upsilon. It's a lot more fun to fly (love chucking four dice), it's got Coordinate (pre-movement shenanigans for your aces), and you've got a lot more options with it. At this point, the Lamda is pretty much Omicron+Palp and that's it. The Upsilon can carry Palp, but it's got plenty of other uses; plus, it's got more than one good pilot.

You say you're playing friendly matches- how do you and your friends build your squads? Do you lean on thematic builds? If so, do you have more Imperial or First Order stuff on hand to fly with whichever shuttle you choose?

Personally, I like the Lambda; it works as a nice support ship and it can also be pretty nasty when it has to be. Ignoring Palp, I like this idea of a support build-

Colonel Jendon- Lambda Shuttle (Fire Control System, Weapons Engineer, ST-321, Fleet Officer) 37 points; if I want it to be a little more aggressive, I'll add a Mangler Cannon or an HLC. I've made use of this to support a Vessery, 2x Onyx Squadron with fairly good results. Palp Aces isn't the only way to use the Lambda.

I haven't bought the Batwing yet, so I have no comment there, save that it looks like it compares to the Lambda the same way that the TIE/fo and T-70 compared to their Civil War predecessors. Similar, but with more capabilities, more durability, and a better dial. All for a higher cost.

Bottom line to me though comes to thematic value. I have a lot more Rebellion vs. Empire era stuff, so the Lambda was definitely higher priority to me. Besides, I really didn't like Ep. VII, so that may bias me a bit, too. My opinion and my grain(s) of salt are on clear display.

Upsilon, If you have the Raider you can put Palp on it too and it is still just as efficient (if not more) than the lambda. Darth Vader <crew> is neat but since the large ship MOV nerf he hasn't been the powerhouse as he is likely to give your opponent points faster than take them away.

My two cents, the UPS. trumps the Lambda in every regard. For 9 points, you get 2 health, a red die, a much better dial, but most importantly the coordinate action. With that you don't need your support ships to take PTL for action economy, and you can still give it FCS for action economy of its own.

In contrast, that is nine points you could put on your aces, but I feel the UPS is much more relavent on the board.

I have to ask. What do you mean with "or"?
I simply dont get it.

I would say I enjoy the U shuttle more as it is actually usable on its own. The L shuttle however can be used with more high powered Aces while the U shuttle is limited to cheaper aces or small TIE swarms.

You should ask what list you want to play and buy the correct shuttle for that.

I was in the same situation months ago, previous to the Upsilon's realease. Since the beginning I wanted the Upsilon more than the Lamba but the wait was killing me, so I bought the Lamba while I was waiting for the Upsilon.

I played many games with it, not only using Palp in it, but with other support choices (Fleet/System Officers, TL for every1, etc.).

Later, when the Upsilon went out I bouth it rigth the way. I have played a few games with it, not as many as the with the Lamba, but from what I have expirienced, I can tell it is better than the Lamba.

These are my reasons:

- Better mobility/support aspects : both ships, once someone gets behind them, it's too hard to shake them off; however, besides the Upsilon been able to turn faster, it can still do something (2 turn + coordinate). You can turn and still coordinate (boots, barrel roll, fouc, TL, etc.) another ship in order to make a shot to the one chasing you.

- Upgrade cards : I think the cards that come with the upsilon have better things to offer. Taking Snap Shot Swarms with Operation Specialist, conditions, Targetting Synchro for ordenance, etc.

- Tech : I think the Tech slot is going to be the future for the next waves to come (for the new movies I mean). But, at the moment, there are pretty good Techs to put on, beginning with the ones they come with the expansion. For example, you can put Targetting Synchronizer and allow a couple of Bombers to shoot their homing missiles without needing a TL, or spending the one they have (Upsilon Bombers*); or to make Omega Ace to shoot 3 crits per round (First Order Alpha Strike**). While these lists are not high competitive, they are very fun to play and you can pull some surprises with them, I mean, imagine been able to deploy after all your enemy ships, and on top of that, at range 3.

- Conditions : the two new condition cards are not to be understimated. Being able to land a specific crit under shields with "I'll show you the dark side" to an Ace; or, to make an unstoppable hit with fanatical devotion each round, while giving two focus to two other ships (including the Upsilon itself), is something extreamly good. " Don't understimate the power of the dark side ".

- Title : I think Upsilon's title is way better than Lamba's. Stressing a ship in this meta (ehem, paratanni) is someting good. I think is better than TL something that may eventually comes to you.

- Damage : as it has said already, 4 dice is something crazy (only 3 ships in the game have 4 natural dice; VCX-100, Phantom and this). Combine that with FCS, Rec Spec and Weapons Guidance, and you may be able to get the 4 hits each round.

- Pilots : I think FFG made a better job here than with the Lamba. There are more choices and a better high PS pilot choice. For instance, you can take:

*A new "officer" support with generic pilot: Hux (5), Inspiring recruit (1) + Title (2) + Experimental Interface (3) = (40) Coordinating, focusing (x3) and stressing while tanking.

*Making Alpha Strike Attacks with Lieutenant Dormitz (him plus Hyperwave Comm Scanner).

*Controling Movement with Major Stridan (Mara Jade).

*Or, taking your highest pilot and make them think twice when attacking you (besides having an EPT slot).

- Miniature : and last but not least, the ship is beatiful. Big, mobile wings, Batwing look-a-like. That title is indeed representative of the fear this Shuttle projects.

* * * * * * *

* UPSI BOMBERS
100 points

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (27)
TIE Bomber (16), Extra Munitions (2), Cluster Missiles (4), Assault Missiles (5), Guidance Chips (0)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (29)
TIE Bomber (16), Extra Munitions (2), Seismic Torpedo (2), Homing Missiles (5), Concussion Missiles (4), Guidance Chips (0)

Starkiller Base Pilot (44)
Upsilon-class Shuttle (30), Fire-Control System (2), Inspiring Recruit (1), General Hux (5), Targeting Synchronizer (3), Experimental Interface (3)

** FIRST ORDER ALPHA STRIKE
100 points

“Omega Ace” (28)
TIE/fo Fighter (20), Hyperwave Comm Scanner (1), Expose (4), Stealth Device (3)

“Epsilon Ace” (23)
TIE/fo Fighter (17), Comm Relay (3), Stealth Device (3)

Lieutenant Dormitz (49)
Upsilon-class Shuttle (31), Fire-Control System (2), General Hux (5), Kylo Ren (3), Hyperwave Comm Scanner (1), Targeting Synchronizer (3), Kylo Ren's Shuttle (2), Ion Projector (2)

Upsilon is more versatile.

but the lambda is serious meta strong.

7 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

but the lambda is serious meta strong.

...with Palpatine.

Answer yourself just one question and your dillema is gone:

Do you need Palpatine taxi or heavy support combat ship?

(no irony here, both are fine but 90% of time theirs usage areas dont overlap - lamba is nothing more then palp taxi, while upsilon is either super expensive palp taxi or wasted as palp taxi)