Morning all!

So we all know Demolisher as the triple tapping ship killing monster that it is, but recently I've been trying to find other jobs for it and I've been wondering if anyone tried it in an anti squadron or dual purpose role?

I was thinking something like this:

Gladiator II (62)

Demolisher (10)

Agent Kallus (3)

Ruthless Strategist (4)

Engine Techs (8)

APTs (5)

Total = 92

I've been thinking of running this build in a list with Vader (to compensate a bit for the lack of OE) it's expensive but can do it's job vs ships and squadrons, in addition it can hose down a bomber ball pretty well with the usual triple tap tactics, throwing 6 blue at each generic squadron and 6 blue, 3 black at each ace. When backed up by some squadrons (2 tie advanced is my first choice, though YV-666's are interesting, particularly if you replace engine techs with fighter coordination teams) the triple tap guarantees 3 damage from ruthless strategist against any aces that get in your way and can be used to finish off genercis left on 1/2 hull. It seems like it has the potential to 1 shot a large number of bombers if they're balled up.

Has anyone tried it? How did it work? Do you think Kallus is even needed on there with ruthless?

You could take Intel Officer.

You're just wasting a lot of points on only anti-squadron capabilities.

Another option is you go OE and Kallus blacks.

Anyway, this sound like squadron death. (Rieekan zombies withstanding). Bank a nav. Fly in, nail some ****. Squadron activations to bring in TieAdv. Then next turn, squadron activations and boost the heck out.

Add Capt Jonus to get the free accuracy on ship attacks form GSD2.

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It really is a new meta. GSD2 is the common Gladiator now.

If you want a squadron killer, use a VSD I.

VSD I
- Warlord
- H9
- Agent Kallus
- Ruthless
- Quad Laser Turrets

Combined with 3 Tie Advanced (or 3 Decimators for the real fun).
There is even room for flechette torpedos, if you really want to mess up the unique squardons. They are not working against generic, but Warlord+H9 on a black dice is a good chance for the crit. So uniques might be perma activated.

Sure, it is 101 points. And it is really slow. But it will do a guaranteed 2 damage on each attack (as long as you have squadrons next to the attacked squadrons). And with the chance for 3 damage on uniques. I prefer one blue that is always a hit over two blue with a 50% chance for a hit.

And the VSD will last longer than a Gladiator (against squadrons). A GSD2 can die really fast to some bombers (it can die in one round). A VSD should last at least 2 rounds.

The only problem are the remaining enemy ships. A VSD is weaker against these compared to a GSD.

Assuming you want demo to have some anti-squad, I feel you should not go too far. Demo is simply too valuable to build purely for as.

Make it a GSD2. Helps a bit. Also works well with Jonus.

One step further is adding Kallus. This isn't an option for a 'heavy' Demo, who wants Intel officer, but a 'light' Demo only gives up its Skilled first officer.

That's where I'd stop with the upgrades. Keep other upgrades as usual.

But try to work in some squad commands. That, on top of anti-squad fire, can really help out.

Jon Davies loves anti squad demo. Sure he will pop up

Give this thread a read.

The trick to this one is that you must destroy any Intel squads first to lock down enemy fighters for good. However, if you do, you have a solid chance of removing multiple squads (especially unique pilots).

I'd seriously suggest banking an early squadron token on this one to ensure that you can throw an Advanced or Defender into range (TIE Bombers also do in a pinch if you can get both shots off before the enemy can engage). However, Demolisher is highly susceptible to squadron attacks if they can successfully activate in attack range.

Flown well it's absolutely devastating. Have had it used against me and....OUCH!

You could combine arms with a Gunnery Team. It makes your demo multi-purpose, you can use Demo as normal, you can use it anti-squad with the normal shoot-move-shoot, or you can hit squads and a ship. The Gunnery Team allows you to nail ships and squads from one arc, stopping you from being caught in the old squads and ships attacking the same arc trick.

Bring some support squadrons (preferably with Intel support)

Tarkin is your friend here as well, allowing you a Nav token for Engine Techs, whilst Demo uses squadron commands.

I am in the process of trying this idea myself.

Here is my concept list for using Demolisher as 'Anti-squadron/multi-purpose' attack ship. (which is actually what it is in the universe)

Motti's Iron Grip
Author: Englishpete

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 390/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

Gladiator II-Class Star Destroyer (62 points)
- Demolisher ( 10 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Assault Concussion Missiles ( 7 points)
= 101 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Relentless ( 3 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 169 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

1 IG-88 ( 21 points)
1 Colonel Jendon ( 20 points)
1 Ciena Ree ( 17 points)
1 Saber Squadron ( 12 points)

GSD 2 definitely seems to be the way to go. Doesn't seem like many have tried Ruthless though?

The squadron token/command seems like a good idea, allow you to throw those tie advanced (or Jonus, that is a good idea) forward to be Ruthless bait while keeping the APTs, techs and Vader allow it to still work for anti ship duties.

My thoughts went to something like this:

Vaders Kittens
Author: Garro

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 384/400

Commander: Darth Vader

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Enhanced Armament ( 10 points)
= 71 total ship cost

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Enhanced Armament ( 10 points)
= 71 total ship cost

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
- Demolisher ( 10 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Ruthless Strategists ( 4 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 90 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Darth Vader ( 36 points)
= 59 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
= 23 total ship cost

1 Bossk ( 23 points)
1 VT-49 Decimator ( 22 points)
1 Tempest Squadron ( 13 points)
1 TIE Advanced Squadron ( 12 points)

2 hours ago, Englishpete said:

You could combine arms with a Gunnery Team. It makes your demo multi-purpose, you can use Demo as normal, you can use it anti-squad with the normal shoot-move-shoot, or you can hit squads and a ship. The Gunnery Team allows you to nail ships and squads from one arc, stopping you from being caught in the old squads and ships attacking the same arc trick.

Bring some support squadrons (preferably with Intel support)

Tarkin is your friend here as well, allowing you a Nav token for Engine Techs, whilst Demo uses squadron commands.

I am in the process of trying this idea myself.

Never thought of gunnery teams, using them on such a short range ship makes me nervous as I struggle to get 2 targets in an arc when I have red dice to throw! I'd be very interested in know how it works out for you though!

You barely have enough there to actually beat a 9-10 squadron ball. Yes, sure you'll ruthless them down to like 2 or 1 hull, but if he's smart he won't obviously let you shoot all of them with Demo, and you won't be getting triple tap, cuz that's based on arc line overlap for squadrons. its a double tap at best. Meaning two ruthlessness shots, and you have very few fighters so they will be taking a huge amount of dmg from ruthless and won't be in much position to fight off the remaining hull on the bomber list.

Also sadly, apparently Arquitens have a tendency to go pop. This is what I hear from others. So you may want to try RBD or AP + SFO instead of IO. If you do this, you'll have a much higher chance of surviving a bombing run on your arquitens, reducing your need for fighter support.

Or go cheap, take Jerjerrod/motti for better positioning and TRC + Needa on one, freeing up something like 20 points for a few more squads. Like Zertik and Valentines Rudor.

5 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

You barely have enough there to actually beat a 9-10 squadron ball. Yes, sure you'll ruthless them down to like 2 or 1 hull, but if he's smart he won't obviously let you shoot all of them with Demo, and you won't be getting triple tap, cuz that's based on arc line overlap for squadrons. its a double tap at best. Meaning two ruthlessness shots, and you have very few fighters so they will be taking a huge amount of dmg from ruthless and won't be in much position to fight off the remaining hull on the bomber list.

Also sadly, apparently Arquitens have a tendency to go pop. This is what I hear from others. So you may want to try RBD or AP + SFO instead of IO. If you do this, you'll have a much higher chance of surviving a bombing run on your arquitens, reducing your need for fighter support.

Or go cheap, take Jerjerrod/motti for better positioning and TRC + Needa on one, freeing up something like 20 points for a few more squads. Like Zertik and Valentines Rudor.

Not sure how the triple tap relies on arc line overlap? It works the same as against ships and relies on going last/first (something which isn't difficult vs heavy bomber lists as they rarely have a bid or 5 activation) to get 1 shot at the end of a turn then 2 at the start of the next. I do see your point about the lack of squadrons though.

I've tested a variant of this list in a few games so far, the kittens don't do to badly for surviving, like any small ship there's a chance they'll go pop but with Vader and the 4 red broadside + intel they really do pack a mean punch they frequently strip 10 shields or 7/8 shields and a brace off big ships in 1 round of coordinated fire, perfect target for demo to finish.

I'll give them a go with TRCs I just don't like surrendering they're 1 evade (as only 1 can have Needa), finding space for RBDs would certainly be nice though totally agree there.

This got me interested so I built a list. I wanted to see if I could incorporate Tarkin as someone suggested but I could also drop it down to JJ, gain dat sweet movement and throw in another Defender, or a couple defensive bits for the arqs like RBD. I could even swap out to Screed. I feel like Tarkin would be fun cause turn 1 I can drop a squadron on everybody and then even my aqs are pushing squads through the Lambda. I really wanna test out all these different versions now.

Off the cuff

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 397/400

Commander: Grand Moff Tarkin

Assault Objective: Precision Strike
Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

Gladiator II-Class Star Destroyer (62 points)
- Demolisher ( 10 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 95 total ship cost

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
- Captain Needa ( 2 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 63 total ship cost

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)
= 59 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Grand Moff Tarkin ( 38 points)
= 61 total ship cost

1 Lamda-class Shuttle ( 15 points)
1 JumpMaster 5000 ( 12 points)
1 Tempest Squadron ( 13 points)
1 Zertik Strom ( 15 points)
3 TIE Defender Squadrons ( 48 points)
1 Captain Jonus ( 16 points)

Card view link

Demoloshier is kind of funny. It is a bomber without bomber, having 3 blue anti ship means there is a good chance it can stop brace and scatter tokens so making it rather good at anti-light ship such as flotillas and Nebulon-B but not so good at taking down ISDs of Liberators. Also the black anti-squadron dice are good but this is where they are sort of reversed. They are good at taking down non-hero squadrons but without the accuracy they can't take on squadrons with scatter too well.

1 hour ago, Garro said:

Not sure how the triple tap relies on arc line overlap? It works the same as against ships and relies on going last/first (something which isn't difficult vs heavy bomber lists as they rarely have a bid or 5 activation) to get 1 shot at the end of a turn then 2 at the start of the next. I do see your point about the lack of squadrons though.

I've tested a variant of this list in a few games so far, the kittens don't do to badly for surviving, like any small ship there's a chance they'll go pop but with Vader and the 4 red broadside + intel they really do pack a mean punch they frequently strip 10 shields or 7/8 shields and a brace off big ships in 1 round of coordinated fire, perfect target for demo to finish.

I'll give them a go with TRCs I just don't like surrendering they're 1 evade (as only 1 can have Needa), finding space for RBDs would certainly be nice though totally agree there.

Triple tap is caused from attacking ship to ship, where their large hull zone is diagonally cut by your arc line, allowing you two attacks from two of your arcs. a ball of squadrons, doesn't occupy space like that. They're usually in one hull zone or another. (With the occasional one-two getting woefully stuck in both). So beyond one or two, most of the squadrons only get attacked on your Demo-previous-turn attack and then ONE of your hull zone attacks from the next turn.

I never tested Arquitens yet. I heard that as forum hearsay, that people were really needing RBD on theirs, but I was also wondering that they should be ok at long range. I'd probably invest in SFOs for 2 points, at least then, you can get an emergency repair.

Trust me, just like you, I really wanna play Enhanced Armament + Vader. Though I think Intel Officer might be too much aggro, whereas SFO is good insurance.

1 minute ago, Blail Blerg said:

Triple tap is caused from attacking ship to ship, where their large hull zone is diagonally cut by your arc line, allowing you two attacks from two of your arcs. a ball of squadrons, doesn't occupy space like that. They're usually in one hull zone or another. (With the occasional one-two getting woefully stuck in both). So beyond one or two, most of the squadrons only get attacked on your Demo-previous-turn attack and then ONE of your hull zone attacks from the next turn.

I never tested Arquitens yet. I heard that as forum hearsay, that people were really needing RBD on theirs, but I was also wondering that they should be ok at long range. I'd probably invest in SFOs for 2 points, at least then, you can get an emergency repair.

Trust me, just like you, I really wanna play Enhanced Armament + Vader. Though I think Intel Officer might be too much aggro, whereas SFO is good insurance.

This is how I see the triple tap against squads:

Last activation of turn, demolisher moves up, fires anti squadron from it's front arc

First activation of next turn, demolisher fires anti squadron from the front arc, then moves and fires anti squadron from a side arc, giving a total of 3 attacks vs the ball.

The Arquitens can explode pretty quickly, that's not been my experience of them so far though, they rely on the aggro from intel and overwhelming firepower provided by Vader + EA to put down threats before they explode, don't get me wrong if they get into medium range of something big, they die but then all of their dice are red so they don't need to get into medium range of anything.

It can even move forward - Anti Squadron Fire after Move,
Then next turn - Anti-Squadron out the Front... Move.

Potentially leaping OVER the squadrons just shot at, and then, shoot at them again out of the Rear.

And then attempt to Engine-Tech out of Easy Range.

Oh that is true. I forgot sorry.

Though, I think that would be very dangerous, as I doubt in most cases you get out of danger from engine techs alone, and you need a nav token, which is doable, but not always how it works.

Of course, of course. Just that it is both possible and feasible is all I'm getting it... I don't expect to see Demos without Nav Tokens all the time now, anyway

But honestly, its still not what demo's best at, anyway..... Its throwing a total of 6 blue dice at those squadrons, for an average of 3 damage with the full triple tap, if its a Glad-II...

I fyou can be tagging 5-6 squadrons at a time? Maybe its worthwhile in the end... If they're low hull mooks or something like that, sure... But its hardly the best use of a Tooled up Demolisher at that point.

Actually now that he's explained his triple tap, I'm much more likely to believe that 4 hull and 5 hull squads will be literally one shot killed by this demolisher. Although I'd personally want ordnance experts, if he has ways to reroll, then he's just fine.

Cuz you can still use that + IntelO + APTs + Vader to do significant dmg to ships. Just not clonisher level destruction. You could add the 13pt torpedoes to really up the firepower though. That sounds like a good use of that upgrade.

It is low on anti-ship damage though, which is why I think the skewing of the meta towards even pushing GSD2 Demolishers to take Agent Kallus is a big deal. I've built similar lists and they tend to have low firepower and lose to normal lists due to this. This is the big problem of countering high squadron lists. They're not come-all lists. They're highly specialized counter lists that die to normal lists.

I'd go

GSD2: Demo, IO, Ruthless, EngineT, Expanded Launchers
Vader commander.

Demolisher has Blue dice for its Anti-Squadron.

Not Blacks.

So ordnance does nothing. Well, on those. Ordnacne is still great for his atni-shipping, but for anti-squdaon, nada... So you'd need Vader to be rerolling the Anti-Squadron Shots in any reasonable amount, and you hardly want to be throwing defense tokens to the wind when you only have 1 of each of the core.

Ruthles sis a good call, but of course, y'gotta bring someone along for the Ride.

No, I meant OE for ship attacks. So that it can do dual purpose and not be an anti-squadron gimped list.

Got it, wasn't sure

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

Actually now that he's explained his triple tap, I'm much more likely to believe that 4 hull and 5 hull squads will be literally one shot killed by this demolisher. Although I'd personally want ordnance experts, if he has ways to reroll, then he's just fine.

Cuz you can still use that + IntelO + APTs + Vader to do significant dmg to ships. Just not clonisher level destruction. You could add the 13pt torpedoes to really up the firepower though. That sounds like a good use of that upgrade.

It is low on anti-ship damage though, which is why I think the skewing of the meta towards even pushing GSD2 Demolishers to take Agent Kallus is a big deal. I've built similar lists and they tend to have low firepower and lose to normal lists due to this. This is the big problem of countering high squadron lists. They're not come-all lists. They're highly specialized counter lists that die to normal lists.

I'd go

GSD2: Demo, IO, Ruthless, EngineT, Expanded Launchers
Vader commander.

I this this setup is very good and agree with your assessment - but I wouldn't really call it a highly specialized counter list. That Demo setup will still wreck any ship's day, and considering that Ruthless Strategists is literally the ONLY upgrade that you wouldn't otherwise find on an anti-ship loadout version of this Demo, I wouldn't call it "highly specialized".

RS really increases the damage output though - with a triple tap and enough cheap hull points nearby (TIE bombers or advanced do nicely), you're averaging 6 damage - enough to kill even Y-wings dead dead dead, and a good chance to take out even VCX's or YT-1300's.