On 2/24/2017 at 1:48 PM, ShadoWarrior said:Badly written contracts. PDFs should not have been classified as "electronic games" by EA or LFL. They are "digital books", a completely different medium.
Contracts written before the concept of pdf was even thought of. It was written in 1989 or so.
2 hours ago, Daeglan said:Contracts written before the concept of pdf was even thought of. It was written in 1989 or so.
And the PDF was invented in 1993 or thereabouts. And 25 years later we're still stuck with those technologically obsolete contracts. I find it hard to believe that no one has revised those contracts written nearly 30 years ago.
12 minutes ago, ShadoWarrior said:And the PDF was invented in 1993 or thereabouts. And 25 years later we're still stuck with those technologically obsolete contracts. I find it hard to believe that no one has revised those contracts written nearly 30 years ago.
They arent going to pay a lawyer to do it. And because the video game license is renewed at a different time it would require an off cycle renewal. Contracts are not simple things when they involve slow moving companies and lawyers.
It is easy to change things between individuals. Not so much when it involves lawyers.
20 minutes ago, ShadoWarrior said:And the PDF was invented in 1993 or thereabouts. And 25 years later we're still stuck with those technologically obsolete contracts. I find it hard to believe that no one has revised those contracts written nearly 30 years ago.
The pdf may have been created in 1993, but it did not instantly enter common usage among individuals. Not to mention, as Daeglan pointed out, the contracts expire/renew at different times. Getting all parties involved to sit down and renegotiate at the same time is unlikely. Likewise, EA has absolutely no incentive to renegotiate that particular point; it doesn’t impact them in the least.
56 minutes ago, ShadoWarrior said:And the PDF was invented in 1993 or thereabouts. And 25 years later we're still stuck with those technologically obsolete contracts. I find it hard to believe that no one has revised those contracts written nearly 30 years ago.
Why would they bother? It's not like the IP is anything other than a gold factory.
On 2/23/2017 at 11:22 PM, Daeglan said:I think the Devs wish they could legally do PDFs.. unfortunately their license does not allow it.
Given that the dice app and now imperial assault apps are out now, I'm no longer sure that this is the case.
Edited by EliasWindrider42 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:Given that the dice app and now imperial assault apps are out now, I'm no longer sure that this is the case.
Those are supplements to aid in game functionality, and thus a loophole. They're worthless on their own. Providing actual game content (rules, stats, etc) via pdf would - in the existing terms of the contract - constitute electronic delivery of the game.
10 hours ago, Nytwyng said:Those are supplements to aid in game functionality, and thus a loophole. They're worthless on their own. Providing actual game content (rules, stats, etc) via pdf would - in the existing terms of the contract - constitute electronic delivery of the game.
Same reason they can get away with publishing the odd character sheet and adventure module.
I think the way things are at the moment, no one would be sad to see EA lose the electronic license and for the digital contracts to be renewed. That's unlikely, but we can dream.
On 24.2.2017 at 9:48 PM, ShadoWarrior said:There's a difference between "printing" a whole slew of individual pages as a pile of PDFs and having the entire index as one single PDF. It's an ease-of-use thing. Sure, having some files, however cumbersome, is better than nothing at all, but a single file is much, much easier to look through.
You can merge PDFs ;-)
Speaking of editing PDFs …
A lot of public libraries have those these days. Book scanners, depending on the model you might have to still turn the pages manually, but overall it should not take more than a few minutes per book to make your own PDFs. Legal in most countries of the world as well, covered by fair use or the right to create private copies of stuff you own, etc
INAL, so check your local copyright law first. And don't even think for a moment to share your files with the general public, because this would be illegal in most countries of the world. 
Edited by SEApocalypse
I’ll have a solution for this in like a month...
But it isn’t done at this point.
5 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:You can merge PDFs ;-)
Speaking of editing PDFs …
A lot of public libraries have those these days. Book scanners, depending on the model you might have to still turn the pages manually, but overall it should not take more than a few minutes per book to make your own PDFs. Legal in most countries of the world as well, covered by fair use or the right to create private copies of stuff you own, etc
INAL, so check your local copyright law first. And don't even thing for a moment to share your files with the general public, because this would be illegal in most countries of the world.
Oh wow where do you live because this has never been at my library lol
2 minutes ago, Norr-Saba said:Oh wow where do you live because this has never been at my library lol
Europe. It is pretty normal in most university cities. Though you find them in libraries in the united states as well (mostly university libraries naturally) . Usually small towns are out of luck, commercial book scanner are still relatively expensive. Though there are plenty of DIY scanners in use as well. The good scanners are using basically two digicams, a little bit of air-flow to turn pages and some software magic to remove any curvage on the pages (thus two photos), but for relatively small projects like scanning your SW RPG collection, page turning by hand should be fine too.
Well, the upside of EA taking so much heat for their lootbox fuckery in Battlefield II and Disney (possibly, not confirmed) pulling the license is that FFG will get a chance to insert the proper language - hopefully - for them to do PDFs and the like.
29 minutes ago, Desslok said:Well, the upside of EA taking so much heat for their lootbox fuckery in Battlefield II and Disney (possibly, not confirmed) pulling the license is that FFG will get a chance to insert the proper language - hopefully - for them to do PDFs and the like.
IF it happens on cycle with FFG’s contract.... 
37 minutes ago, Desslok said:Well, the upside of EA taking so much heat for their lootbox fuckery in Battlefield II and Disney (possibly, not confirmed) pulling the license is that FFG will get a chance to insert the proper language - hopefully - for them to do PDFs and the like.
That is if Asmodee is quick enough to react to that. With this rumor going around they should already calling their guy at LFL and asking for this right now. Disney will not announce an end of contract with EA before they have someone new and at that point it will most likely be too late for any changes to the new contract. Meanwhile piggybacking the PDF licence on top of Asmodee's current contract should be easy.
1 hour ago, Nytwyng said:IF it happens on cycle with FFG’s contract....
While I'm about as far away from a lawyer as you can get (although I did play a ton of Phoenix Wright back in the day) , there has to be some kind of provision to make adjustments like this. It might cost them a bit of cash, but surely they can figure out some way to make it work.
2 hours ago, Desslok said:While I'm about as far away from a lawyer as you can get (although I did play a ton of Phoenix Wright back in the day) , there has to be some kind of provision to make adjustments like this. It might cost them a bit of cash, but surely they can figure out some way to make it work.
OBJECTION!!!
On 2017-02-24 at 2:11 PM, Darth Poopdeck said:Has any other roleplaying line ever come out with a compiled list? (D&D?) I'm curious, this is the only roleplaying line I've ever played. I wonder what the standard procedure is... all books >>> then compiled list books?
Not races (Which was never expanded) but WHFRP 2nd had a Career Compendium, compiling all vocations from the then released sourcebooks.
It was a blessing, sadly the binding was crappy and half of my pages have fallen out (Or nearly..). Also a fair few of those careers do reference parts of their own sourcebook. Still it's comfy!
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/64673/Warhammer-Fantasy-Roleplay-2nd-Edition-Career-Compendium
On 12/11/2017 at 9:53 AM, Yaccarus said:I’ll have a solution for this in like a month...
But it isn’t done at this point.
And about a month later...
On 2/24/2017 at 2:55 PM, ShadoWarrior said:I wasn't aware that it's technically possible to merge together PDFs. Is it?
The not very fancy, but nevertheless functional solution that I use:
(For IPad if you have Notability)
On 1/12/2018 at 2:52 PM, Stechra said:Not races (Which was never expanded) but WHFRP 2nd had a Career Compendium, compiling all vocations from the then released sourcebooks.
That was a great book indeed, but it was also the harbinger of the end of the line.
11 hours ago, Vorzakk said:That was a great book indeed, but it was also the harbinger of the end of the line.
Sadly, yes.
I have high hopes for Cubicle 7s WHFRP 4.0 though! They said they're going to draw from 1st and 2nd. (I don't like 3rd!)
On 12/10/2017 at 11:50 AM, ShadoWarrior said:And the PDF was invented in 1993 or thereabouts. And 25 years later we're still stuck with those technologically obsolete contracts. I find it hard to believe that no one has revised those contracts written nearly 30 years ago.
Contracts are less about technology and more about control and making money. It's far easier to justify a $30 hardcover book than a $30 PDF which means you either A. have to sell the PDF for less and potentially decrease profits. B. Do both and hope you can deal with Adobe's fees (PDF writer in it's current form is either a monthly or yearly service fee, yes I'm aware there are alternatives but software can be finicky) C. I had something for here but it went away. Grr.
3 hours ago, ASCI Blue said:
Contracts are less about technology and more about control and making money. It's far easier to justify a $30 hardcover book than a $30 PDF which means you either A. have to sell the PDF for less and potentially decrease profits. B. Do both and hope you can deal with Adobe's fees (PDF writer in it's current form is either a monthly or yearly service fee, yes I'm aware there are alternatives but software can be finicky) C. I had something for here but it went away. Grr.
Sure it is about control and making money. And they are not going to spend lawyer money to change the contract if they don't need too. It has nothing to do with PDF software. They make PDFs all the time. They even sell them. And dirty secret what gets sent to the printer is a PDF. So if FFG was allowed they would be selling PDFs. Those of us who have been following the game for a while have been told by devs that the contract does not allow PDFs.
I've seen several times the statement of the contract doesn't allow for PDF. I didn't know that what gets sent to the printer is a PDF, although that makes dump truck loads of sense since I can send a ~100 meg file to insert country here and have paper back within a couple months. I also know some places don't want to pay a monthly or yearly service fee to use Adobe's software if they don't need to. I'm guessing one of the bean counters at FFG ran numbers and found something wrong with spending lawyer money to change the contract. I'd wager that FFG has an in house contract lawyer with a small staff for situations like this.