I was pretty surprised at the Defender's 3-3-3-3 statline when I first saw it, but now that it's been appropriately priced it's a monster on the field. The Phantom showed us what a 4-4-2-2 ship could do, but it was a bit limited due to the cloak mechanic. I'm wondering what a 4-4-4-4 natural statline would look like, and how much it'd be worth:

The TIE predator was a next generation starfighter around 160 years ABY, so a super advanced ship. Not only does it have a 4-4-4-4 statline, but it also has a fantastic dial (although nothing absurdly good like *cough* *white k-turns* *cough*), all the standard actions and the extremely useful systems and cannon slots. It's pretty much the ideal ship. 39 points is the cost of the cheapest generic (EPT because it won't be used otherwise), definitively limiting you to 2 in a list. Even so, this thing is a monster - PTL, autothrusters and fire control system would make it absurd.

So, is this thing balanced at 39 points minimum, or would it need to go up?

Much higher. 4 agility is almost gamebreaking. It's impossible to achieve in the base game without a catch.

I actually read that comic series recently, with Cade Skywalker and Darth Krayt.

Skull squadron and the Tie Predators were my favorite part, actually. They were sweet. That said they didn't feel super powerful; just more like another step up from a Tie/FO. They still popped like Ties and plinked plinked the hero's ship a few times without real damage.

Comparing this to an IG-2000, for only 3 more points you get a much better dial, an extra agility, a small base, and an extra red at the cost of a couple upgrade slots and a pilot ability.

Maybe start it in the ballpark of 46pts? Then with FCS, PTL, and thrusters you're at 53. Super Dash clocks in at 58 and is probably better...although both seem pretty vomit inducing to actually have to play against.

4 agility with PTL and focus evade and palptine, youre NEVER hitting that.

8 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

4 agility with PTL and focus evade and palptine, youre NEVER hitting that.

Add in stealth device.

1 minute ago, Rasputindarksyde said:

Add in stealth device.

Or autothrusters.

Actually, 4 dice fail moderately often. But you're going to be heavily frustrated by how many attacks this thing will shrug off. 3 die attacks will have a low chance of doing even 1 damage.

Lol, give it a PWT and every move in the game green =) Ho much would that be/ 75points? 100? Probably wouldn't be as good if it couldnt take PTL for focus evade.

Just drop bombs on it. Dead!

Granted with 4 shield 4 hull that might take a couple bombs. I get the 4 agility, not so much the 4 shield and 4 hull. Not sure I get the 4 firepower either.

I'm not sure that ship can be balanced. The cannon slot will never be used because they're all downgrades from the primary. Ptl autothrusters and fcs would be the go to build and that ship would be probably close to invincible. It also violates the '4 actions on the bar' rule that has existed thus far. I'd also say given the greens on that dial having access to a t-roll, s-loop, and k-turn is probably better than just having a stiff dial and white k.

That's easily a 70 point ship naked.

Following established point guidelines it's 76 points. Lol. Guess that seems right.

8 minutes ago, Lobokai said:

Following established point guidelines it's 76 points. Lol. Guess that seems right.

I'll take your word for it, I don't know the guidelines. It would have to be priced so highly that you'd be precluded from pairing it with anything more than a couple of TIEs. Turns out that was more accurate than I realised!

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

4 agility with PTL and focus evade and palptine, youre NEVER hitting that.

So true! As Rasputindarksyde said, bombs could do the trick. Other answers include Autoblaster, Autoblaster Turret, Ten Numb, General Hux. Still, you have to hit it a LOT!

As for the 5 actions, I think you should take the TAP route and add a title that grants that 5th action conditionally. For example, take away the boost action, but have a title that says "When you perform a barrel roll, you may perform a free boost action." (Originally I had it "barrel roll action," but I like the idea of putting Expert Handling on this thing, and that wording would preclude EH from granting the free boost.) This also reigns in the hypermobility a smidge.

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So true! As Rasputindarksyde said, bombs could do the trick. Other answers include Autoblaster , Autoblaster Turret , Ten Numb , General Hux . Still, you have to hit it a LOT!

First you'd have to get near it - and this thing can take Advanced Sensors.

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I'm not sure that ship can be balanced. The cannon slot will never be used because they're all downgrades from the primary. Ptl autothrusters and fcs would be the go to build and that ship would be probably close to invincible. It also violates the '4 actions on the bar' rule that has existed thus far. I'd also say given the greens on that dial having access to a t-roll, s-loop, and k-turn is probably better than just having a stiff dial and white k.

A 1 pt tractor beam is always useful. And Ion cannons have their uses as well. I also forgot to add the other upgrade slots and actions:

So the upgrades become clear here:

Push The Limit
Fire Control System
Advanced Sensors
Palpatine
R2-D2
Scavenger Crane
Stealth Device

All for the bargain price of 95 points...

I want to hump this fighter to death with Oicunn.

The troll R2-D2 version laughs at your 1 damage a turn.

I'd go for a 5 Y-wing with autoblaster build against one of these - bump with one and kill with the other 3.

8 hours ago, Astech said:

I was pretty surprised at the Defender's 3-3-3-3 statline when I first saw it, but now that it's been appropriately priced it's a monster on the field. The Phantom showed us what a 4-4-2-2 ship could do, but it was a bit limited due to the cloak mechanic. I'm wondering what a 4-4-4-4 natural statline would look like, and how much it'd be worth:

The TIE predator was a next generation starfighter around 160 years ABY, so a super advanced ship. Not only does it have a 4-4-4-4 statline, but it also has a fantastic dial (although nothing absurdly good like *cough* *white k-turns* *cough*), all the standard actions and the extremely useful systems and cannon slots. It's pretty much the ideal ship. 39 points is the cost of the cheapest generic (EPT because it won't be used otherwise), definitively limiting you to 2 in a list. Even so, this thing is a monster - PTL, autothrusters and fire control system would make it absurd.

So, is this thing balanced at 39 points minimum, or would it need to go up?

This is broken AF.

I mean, it's a brobot with an arguably better dial (green turns, green 4 and 5 straight, more flexible reds at the cost of no 1 straight and 1 bank), and with a much more fliexible dial than the Defender with the exception of the white k turn. 4 AGI is broken. 4 attack on the same chassis is probably broken (a brobot with 4 attack costs 43 points, don't forget).

This sounds functionally impossibel to balance in the framework of the game as it currently stands.

You might be able to make a 4-4-4-4 ship to work if it didn't have access to focus, or boost actions natively, and had a minimal statline - with no ept being above p.s. 6, it would still need to be costly, but give it maybe, Target Lock, Evade and Barrel roll. It'd still need to be costed more than a defender - given the ways of getting a focus token. You can also give it no white moves, making them all red or green, with a healthy dose of Reds.

I think it needs a /D title to be balanced. Or an /x7. Way too expensive for what it is, DOA for sure.

5 hours ago, Astech said:

First you'd have to get near it - and this thing can take Advanced Sensors.

A 1 pt tractor beam is always useful. And Ion cannons have their uses as well. I also forgot to add the other upgrade slots and actions:

So the upgrades become clear here:

Push The Limit
Fire Control System
Advanced Sensors
Palpatine
R2-D2
Scavenger Crane
Stealth Device

All for the bargain price of 95 points...

It'd be interesting seeing what lists this thing could solo.

More a question of what couldn't it solo!

Go directly to Autoblasters, do not pass Go, do not collect $200.

11 hours ago, Astech said:

Um, I don't have any idea what this is or its costs......I can't get beyond how STUPID it looks.

This thing would be impossible to kill barring REALLY bad luck or constant slicer attacks.

Cannon upgrade slot is redundant, with a 4primary you'd never want it. Sensor gives it FCS so its insane rebounding dial can keep on you with mods.
Also its way too great of a dial. You cant shake that thing...at all...forcing you to deal with it first but its also the tankiest thing out there. Dont even need palpatine.

Also FFG is against more than 4 base actions. Weve seen this a few times already where a ship was missing an action they should have because then they'd have 5 (Awings anyone?)

Wall to wall huge ships could kill it, especially if one were Sabine's Raider (see Gabe's joke design).

I never read that Legacy stuff but I doubt the ships would be super advanced, especially a stat line that put Defenders to shame. Also...no tech slot? Come on! That's evidence this whole thing was a joke from the start.

15 hours ago, Astech said:

I was pretty surprised at the Defender's 3-3-3-3 statline when I first saw it, but now that it's been appropriately priced it's a monster on the field. The Phantom showed us what a 4-4-2-2 ship could do, but it was a bit limited due to the cloak mechanic. I'm wondering what a 4-4-4-4 natural statline would look like, and how much it'd be worth:

The TIE predator was a next generation starfighter around 160 years ABY, so a super advanced ship. Not only does it have a 4-4-4-4 statline, but it also has a fantastic dial (although nothing absurdly good like *cough* *white k-turns* *cough*), all the standard actions and the extremely useful systems and cannon slots. It's pretty much the ideal ship. 39 points is the cost of the cheapest generic (EPT because it won't be used otherwise), definitively limiting you to 2 in a list. Even so, this thing is a monster - PTL, autothrusters and fire control system would make it absurd.

So, is this thing balanced at 39 points minimum, or would it need to go up?

I can still one shot it with my drunken abusive grandfather shuttle.