A long time ago in a galaxy far ago there were no Primary Red 3 ships. Later we saw HLC, limited 4 Dice. Rise and Decline of the Phantom. But now we see Ghost, UPS, and Aces like Fenn Rau that simply...Wooow.

And after many aditions to our game, ordnance carriers continue as that overweight girl with no boyfriend...

I would like to see official cards depicting Red 5 Proton Torps or Impact Missiles. Range 2-3... Limited to ships with at least two Ordnance Slots. Not Mods or Titles because Ordnance carriers need things like LRS or GCs. Simple and easy...

"Heavy" variants with more punch. It is OK to load Torps/Miss on X Wings, A wings, ATPs... But new toys to be really worried about that fat, slow, Agi 1 ship. "You can outrun, outmaneuver and you are shiny and beautiful...but I can hit your face at range 3 with no +1 green and rolling Red 5... One Eye to Crit"

Perhaps 1 pt more expensive. And broad the Meta.

By Red 5 are you meaning Luke Skywalker's ship Red 5 the X-wing title or a Firepower 5 torpedo?

There has always been ships with a primary weapons value of 3.
But I do not think it would be healthy for the game. The best carrier of torpedo's is still the jumpmaster, both due to health, big arc, great dial and EPT.
If you give it a 5 dice torpedo, even if it is more expensive, you could go for 2 torpedo boats with 1 bumpmaster.... And get wrecked!
You do NOT want to go back to that meta again.

Fenn Rau is stupid... Not lore or gameplay or common sense balanced. He's the Cato Sicarius of this meta. We nerfed Soontir just to do this?

3 minutes ago, Lobokai said:

Fenn Rau is stupid... Not lore or gameplay or common sense balanced. He's the Cato Sicarius of this meta. We nerfed Soontir just to do this?

When was Soontir nerfed?

3 minutes ago, Teloch said:

When was Soontir nerfed?

Last 3 waves.

36 minutes ago, Lobokai said:

Fenn Rau is stupid... Not lore or gameplay or common sense balanced. He's the Cato Sicarius of this meta. We nerfed Soontir just to do this?

We took the fat han from rebels and gave it to scum (U-boats) we took the palp shuttle from Imperials and gave it to Scum (Manaroo) We took the soontir from Imperials and gave it to scum (Fenn Rau). **** scum why do you got to keep stealing everything from the rest of the factions? What is the next power build you are going to swipe, Bro-bots?

3 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

We took the fat han from rebels and gave it to scum (U-boats) we took the palp shuttle from Imperials and gave it to Scum (Manaroo) We took the soontir from Imperials and gave it to scum (Fenn Rau). **** scum why do you got to keep stealing everything from the rest of the factions? What is the next power build you are going to swipe, Bro-bots?

The Jabba crew card will steal everything from everyone, especially that cash from FFG customers.

Nothing is safe.

50 minutes ago, Lobokai said:

Last 3 waves.

Explain how? What was done to Soontir's mechanics that qualifies as a nerf?

3 minutes ago, Teloch said:

Explain how? What was done to Soontir's mechanics that qualifies as a nerf?

Technically, nerfing can mean to make less effective or desirable. Nothing was done to Soontir himself, but Soontir exemplifies a type of Ace build which has been completely eclipsed by lots of anti-ace tech (BMST, Bombs+Sabine, etc - basically anything which can chip away at that 3 health Soontir has without giving a flip about his token stack). That stuff ruins Fenn Rau's day too a little, but the Fang is built not intrinsically on a token stack, but on giving you big benefits for rushing right into the enemy's teeth for the kill. Fenn just gets extra dice/results on his own.

56 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

Technically, nerfing can mean to make less effective or desirable. Nothing was done to Soontir himself, but Soontir exemplifies a type of Ace build which has been completely eclipsed by lots of anti-ace tech (BMST, Bombs+Sabine, etc - basically anything which can chip away at that 3 health Soontir has without giving a flip about his token stack). That stuff ruins Fenn Rau's day too a little, but the Fang is built not intrinsically on a token stack, but on giving you big benefits for rushing right into the enemy's teeth for the kill. Fenn just gets extra dice/results on his own.

I agree with what your saying, except for it being a nerf. Buffing a ship or releasing a new ship that counters another, isn't a nerf.

27 minutes ago, Teloch said:

I agree with what your saying, except for it being a nerf. Buffing a ship or releasing a new ship that counters another, isn't a nerf.

You're splitting hairs. If it feels like a nerf, and has the same end result as a nerf, it's probably a nerf.

Also, to "weaken", "worsen", or "deteriorate" nothing has to be done to Soontir directly. But, specific gameplay additions and changes have made him, "worse", "weaker" and deteriorated his play. You want to fight about what dictionary to use, fine (not actually fine - that's not on point) but the usage of the word is perfectly legit.

There was a YouTube page that did a mission on the moon of Endor with walkers and AT-ST's. Beast of War? It was pretty cool. They changed the rules so that Advanced Proton Torps were R5. I think it's a pretty neat idea. It kind of puts them in a place that's interesting. Probably have to wait until X-wing 2.0.

Unless the wiki image is mistaken, APTs already roll 5 dice - the issue is that they're range 1 only. And also 6 points. And really need TL and Focus.

Ordnance in X-wing is kind of in a place where it's either way overpowered or not useful at all and there's not much in between. We saw what powerful ordnance looked like and wanted no part of it so it got nerfed down.

In my opinion the problem with the Jumpmaster was simply the interaction between generic with EPT and that little droid...

In a world with ships like UPS firing 4 Red and with white turns... Tie Punishers firing "heavy" torps could be interesting.

I have no problem while playing at home. There are perhaps too many interactions and X then Y then Z that allows me to...you are dead. We like shorter ways. Keep it simple and easy to fight Epic or Double Epic. No Meta squads week after week.

Feel that some ships needs more love? Adapt and Improve. But this is viable only playing with your friends and players in casual mode.

And do not forget one and simple way to add more spice to bombers. Face down ordnance and bomb upgrade cards. Very little ruling involved and... It works OK.

God no; the last thing this game needs is MORE ways to get 5+ highly accurate dice.

There is a five dice torp already, the Adv. Proton Torp and it already changes three blanks to a focus, with guidance chips and a focus, you have four hits before you have even rolled the dice.

What range 2? Take Rhymer.

You know what, no one uses it because the cost of such a thing is counter productive to its inclusion. Missiles and bombs are just becoming a thing, lets not get into Attack Wing with their 10 dice "Cutting Beam" attack against a singe evade ship. . with reduced agility . .

8 hours ago, Panzeh said:

Ordnance in X-wing is kind of in a place where it's either way overpowered or not useful at all and there's not much in between. We saw what powerful ordnance looked like and wanted no part of it so it got nerfed down.

Yeah, this.

Ordnance is awkward to use, so it's only worth bothering to bring and use if it's so powerful you can't ignore it.

Hell no.

Range 3 torps? - no bonus defence dice.

Torps - so easy to mod them now.

Range 2-3 - so easy to fire then and so hard to escape them.

All 4+ attacks in game now either give you bonus range defence, or are range 1 or are torpedos that needs to be setup before.

21 hours ago, heychadwick said:

There was a YouTube page that did a mission on the moon of Endor with walkers and AT-ST's. Beast of War? It was pretty cool. They changed the rules so that Advanced Proton Torps were R5. I think it's a pretty neat idea. It kind of puts them in a place that's interesting. Probably have to wait until X-wing 2.0 .

You mean "Advanced X-Wing." There's no support for X-Wing 2.0.

21 hours ago, Panzeh said:

Ordnance in X-wing is kind of in a place where it's either way overpowered or not useful at all and there's not much in between. We saw what powerful ordnance looked like and wanted no part of it so it got nerfed down.

What I'd like to see is arc-free ordnance. I mean, the **** things can fly on their own, and I doubt they are wire-guided.

Simply reduce range for each "arc" out of arc.

I'm actually pretty good with ordance as is. FFG just needs to cool the jets on ridiculous primary dice pools.

However, I'd like to see all torps get some boost against large ships and maybe even use the target lock to reroll against huge ships.