The lifeboat is a much maligned but now commonplace tactical issue. By lifeboat of course we mean a flotilla with the admiral on it hiding in the back of the board.

Generally my approach when faced with this is to just ignore it and try to win the main battle. But with relay especially now in the mix but also getting rid of that activation being helpful having an option to hunt down flotillas in the board edges becomes more attractive...

Firstly, one frustrating thing is that a rebel flotilla even with Mon Mothma on it is only going to net you a 48 point return. Its hard to come up with usable combinations to use as a "flanking force" that are going to get their points back, even if they do manage to catch her.

Anyone got ideas that work?

Options I've considered include:

2 x firespray - cheap, probably can get the job done, but slow and even one escort fighter will pretty much stop them taking out the flotilla over the course of the game.

Shuttle with mixed bomber and fighters - need a couple of your own flotillas to push and even then could get tied up long enough that they can't catch and kill the flotilla.

Raider - can definitely get the damage, but in my experience never gets the accuracy at the right moment, and often can only line up one or two shots in the game because of his close range dependency...

I think hunting life boats involves more than just a points value calculation. Whilst taking out an Ackbar flotilla for 56 points, or Mothma for 48, may be small fry on paper, the effect their loss can have on the greater fleet is huge. From personal experience, losing Ackbar on turn 3 lost me a game at regionals, even though i didn't lose my biggest ships.

With this in mind, i reckon deploying 100 points or so (for example) to take out 50 points of life boat can pay huge dividends towards the end of game score. Even an MC30 can be justified as an assassin if it can get the job done in a timely manner.

Ginkapo has had an...interesting approach of late. He's taken to using a pair of CR90Bs with Engine Techs and Blast Doors. He uses them as ramming cruise missiles. I've tried it myself. It works not just against flotillas, but also small ships with low hull. The MC30 is particularly vulnerable given its higher cost.

39 minutes ago, Ophion said:

The lifeboat is a much maligned but now commonplace tactical issue. By lifeboat of course we mean a flotilla with the admiral on it hiding in the back of the board.

Generally my approach when faced with this is to just ignore it and try to win the main battle. But with relay especially now in the mix but also getting rid of that activation being helpful having an option to hunt down flotillas in the board edges becomes more attractive...

Firstly, one frustrating thing is that a rebel flotilla even with Mon Mothma on it is only going to net you a 48 point return. Its hard to come up with usable combinations to use as a "flanking force" that are going to get their points back, even if they do manage to catch her.

Anyone got ideas that work?

Options I've considered include:

2 x firespray - cheap, probably can get the job done, but slow and even one escort fighter will pretty much stop them taking out the flotilla over the course of the game.

Shuttle with mixed bomber and fighters - need a couple of your own flotillas to push and even then could get tied up long enough that they can't catch and kill the flotilla.

Raider - can definitely get the damage, but in my experience never gets the accuracy at the right moment, and often can only line up one or two shots in the game because of his close range dependency...

Decimators

Raider+Screed+sensor team+APT and it will be guaranteed.

I had a game recently when the Rieekan Lifeboat of my opponent actually helped me.

I had Mon Karren that was approaching the enemy Defiance and moved to long range of it off its front left. I was double arced but the range and braces helped. Mon Karren was also at medium range of Rieekans lifeboat and with gunnery teams could shoot both from the front. My opponent was first player and so decided to save Rieekan, activating him at the beginning of turn 3, moving him out of my front arc and into safety. However in doing so I could then activated Mon Karren to shoot at long range then move into Defiance's front arc and pin him in a ram. Defiance was also on an asteroid and Mon Karen was now out of its side death arc and ready to sit there as long as it took to kill the enemies biggest ship.

Sometimes in activation order a lifeboat can be a disadvantage if the enemy threaten it or fork 2 targets.

You don't have to be able to do it with a ship valued less than 48 points. You're not losing that assassin. You're not trading points. You're using them.

You just have to do it in a way that doesn't lose you 48 points worth of stuff.

I use an 89-point OE/APT/SFO/H9/ Admonition for flotilla hunting. It's extremely effective, because it costs me one shot out of those 89 points to do it, and I can do it very fast, which frees up those 89 points to go do something else for the other 3-4 turns of the game. Those points can even do other stuff on the 2 turns on the way in to pop the flotilla. They can give me an extra activation when I need it. They threaten a large area of space. They can tank shots. They can obstruct. They can block.

And that's only important for me because I'm often going for a tabling. If you aren't, evaluate whether you even need to worry about killing that admiral on a per-game basis. If Motti's way off in the corner and you don't have a good way to chase him down without charging through an ISD front arc or something... then, heck, it might be faster to just shoot the ISD.

Stick Ozzel on a lifeboat.

Use a Lambda.

Spam squad commands.

If your opponent opts to run him down, that's great - points not shooting at your main ships.

If your opponent ignores him, that's great too - a bonus activation and guaranteed (more or less) squad commands.

If Ozzel does get blown up, that's not so bad. Your opponent hunted him down, spending more than 43 pts to do so. At that stage of the game you can probably manage without Ozzel's ability.

Jonus + Raider should pop it right open unless its a TUA ECM lifeboat.

Im starting to squeeze jonus is more and more of my lists where i need to be able to always get rid of that 1 defense.

Glad II +ATP and Jonus killed a Sato lifeboat.

If you want cheap, effective, and fast enough to get back into the fight as a basic all rounder, try a TRC90 with Intel and start at speed 4. It is fast enough to get back into the fight and the Intel insures it should only take you two turn max to kill the **** thing.

3 minutes ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

If you want cheap, effective, and fast enough to get back into the fight as a basic all rounder, try a TRC90 with Intel and start at speed 4. It is fast enough to get back into the fight and the Intel insures it should only take you two turn max to kill the **** thing.

Hmm... I haven't had much success at all with using TRC90's as flotilla hunters. Even with a double arc and CF, you're looking at 3 turns on average, I think, unless you get a lucky red acc or you get to medium range. And at medium, you could do the same thing using a CR90B for cheaper

Turn 1: hit-hit-dbl front arc after TRC/CF, IO scatter, evade dbl, lose shield and one hull. Second arc is scattered.

Turn 2: hit-dbl-dbl front arc after TRC/CF, IO scatter, burn scatter. Second arc's one red is evaded.

Turn 3: dead, barring outside factors.

7 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

Hmm... I haven't had much success at all with using TRC90's as flotilla hunters. Even with a double arc and CF, you're looking at 3 turns on average, I think, unless you get a lucky red acc or you get to medium range. And at medium, you could do the same thing using a CR90B for cheaper

Turn 1: hit-hit-dbl front arc after TRC/CF, IO scatter, evade dbl, lose shield and one hull. Second arc is scattered.

Turn 2: hit-dbl-dbl front arc after TRC/CF, IO scatter, burn scatter. Second arc's one red is evaded.

Turn 3: dead, barring outside factors.

Keep in mind that that between two rounds of shooting you should be rolling an accuracy every other shot on average. Additionally once you are in range you also have to factor in the rams. Ultimately if you are close enough to shoot, you are close enough to ram. Another reason why the speed 4 is so important.

Morna Kee should do you pretty well, I should think.

4 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Decimators

Raider+Screed+sensor team+APT and it will be guaranteed.

You can do it with Expanded Launchers too. That usually guarantees enough damage as well, even with a bad roll since you lack ordnance experts.

Still need Screed though.

7 hours ago, Truthiness said:

Ginkapo has had an...interesting approach of late. He's taken to using a pair of CR90Bs with Engine Techs and Blast Doors. He uses them as ramming cruise missiles. I've tried it myself. It works not just against flotillas, but also small ships with low hull. The MC30 is particularly vulnerable given its higher cost.

So they were Rambo-boats. Rambo90s.

3 hours ago, n00bzilla99 said:

You can do it with Expanded Launchers too. That usually guarantees enough damage as well, even with a bad roll since you lack ordnance experts.

Still need Screed though.

In my mind any build that runs sensor team on a raider is an overkill. Naked raider with CF dial has about 50% chance of killing a flotilla. One can add Veteran Gunners to it to bump that chance to 75% (probably a bit more than that) and still keep the ship cheap enough and versatile enough.

EDIT: And this is even without getting double arc on a flotilla

Cf, Vader, Vet gunners, apt. Pretty good hunter of flotillas. Pretty good period really.

I like the idea of a couple of rogue squadrons going off and doing it if possible if that won't impact your central force too much but you probably won't get those squadrons back into the main fight again which is an issue.

Sending a ship can work too but I disagree with those who are thinking you'll get to use that ship again. In most cases that ship will be chasing something that's entire goal is to be as far away from the main battle as possible. Most of the ship suggestions are going to need to have a short range shot too which is another problem unless you are going first, though I like the idea of the cr90b ram ship, that doesn't have the same issue!

I don't think I've yet seen any evidence on the table from the top players in my meta that there is a solution. Wait and see I guess

I have a tendency to kill flotillas first, even if I have a shot at a larger target. I'm running H9s on nearly every list, so killing the activation and whatever support they provided is far more valuable than trying to get hull damage on something. I find my games go much easier after round 4 and I'm 2 activations up.

My main Rebel list has 2 CR90As in it that are meant for flanking and chasing things when they aren't pestering my main target. My main Imp list has a Raider and an Arq with IO and TRC to deal with flotillas that want to run. The best part about incorporating these ships in my list, is they are always valuable in regards to chasing flotillas, giving me deployments and activations, and if my opponent doesn't have a lifeboat, I can focus on the main part of their fleet. 2 AF or 2 Glads are pretty good at killing stuff, but adding in 2 CR90s or a Raider and an Arq make my life much easier.

Dealing with lifeboats is just like dealing with bomber lists. You SHOULD invest a little bit in dealing with lifeboats if the situation comes up, just like you should have 50-60 points of squads incase you run into bombers. And if you don't run into that situation, those ships and squads can and will help take down targets faster.

send your whole force after it, and then your opponent needs to come after you , and if your good he will end up catching up peace meal or not at all.

2 hours ago, beefcake4000 said:

Sending a ship can work too but I disagree with those who are thinking you'll get to use that ship again. In most cases that ship will be chasing something that's entire goal is to be as far away from the main battle as possible.

The trick is to try to force engagement to take place as close as possible to the lifeboat, and try to set your flotilla killer on a trajectory such that it can contribute to the fight either before or after it goes in for the admiral.

Poorly-executed example here . I knew Admonition , my normal flotilla-killer, would be needed elsewhere, so I planned to ram Vader to death with Mothma and whatever shrimp I could get deployed in position, with turned out to be, IIRC, Trembling (I haven't watched it since the game). Watching this game, if you know it's coming, you can see Mothma and Trembling bearing toward Vader from the beginning of the game all the way through turn 6 when he's rammed to death. You can see how Trembling was deployed in such a position that he could contribute to the fight against the ISD while on that collision course.

Sure, you can't always make this happen, but it's not nearly as impossible as it seems at first blush.

2 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

The trick is to try to force engagement to take place as close as possible to the lifeboat, and try to set your flotilla killer on a trajectory such that it can contribute to the fight either before or after it goes in for the admiral.

Poorly-executed example here . I knew Admonition , my normal flotilla-killer, would be needed elsewhere, so I planned to ram Vader to death with Mothma and whatever shrimp I could get deployed in position, with turned out to be, IIRC, Trembling (I haven't watched it since the game). Watching this game, if you know it's coming, you can see Mothma and Trembling bearing toward Vader from the beginning of the game all the way through turn 6 when he's rammed to death. You can see how Trembling was deployed in such a position that he could contribute to the fight against the ISD while on that collision course.

Sure, you can't always make this happen, but it's not nearly as impossible as it seems at first blush.

I guess then that in addition to everything else you need to go right it's about deployment order. These would be the issues I see when hunting a lifeboat.

1) if your opponent has more deployments than you they can save it till last so they can find a nice safe spot for it.

2) if you're not going first it's **** hard to get that nail shot on a small target with scatter and evade whose sole purpose for existence is to scatter and evade. Susbstantially more difficult if you are using a raider or something similar that is relying on short range.

3) if your opponent has more activations than you it will be harder to setup that big hit even if you are first player

4) if the battle is taking place too far away you won't get the ship back in time to do anything else so while you invest your 90+point h9 admo chasing my 50 point max lifeboat my 90+ point Killy ship is going to flog whatever you've got left in the main battle. I could probably justify that against a big admiral like Vader or Akbar but I doubt you'd get the value back hunting down dodonna for example

9 minutes ago, beefcake4000 said:

4) if the battle is taking place too far away you won't get the ship back in time to do anything else so while you invest your 90+point h9 admo chasing my 50 point max lifeboat my 90+ point Killy ship is going to flog whatever you've got left in the main battle. I could probably justify that against a big admiral like Vader or Akbar but I doubt you'd get the value back hunting down dodonna for example

Then don't. If it's not worth chasing the admiral... so go kill the rest of the fleet instead.

19 hours ago, Truthiness said:

Ginkapo has had an...interesting approach of late. He's taken to using a pair of CR90Bs with Engine Techs and Blast Doors. He uses them as ramming cruise missiles. I've tried it myself. It works not just against flotillas, but also small ships with low hull. The MC30 is particularly vulnerable given its higher cost.

I've tried this method too and it works well particularly when you add Rieekan as then they can play double duty mauling and blocking ISDs etc). With MSU lists being so popular now it's great fun!

I've recently been using an Akbar list centered around an assault pickle with H9's. With just average rolls I can take two flotillas off the board per turn (one per side arc) at long range, and with engine techs I can double ram whatever gets in front of me.

Decked out Scout Landmonition is there to deal with big ships