In that building characters is one of the great pleasures of the game for me, I find myself in a weird position: I've got a rough concept, but am stuck for the specifics. So I thought I'd throw the question to the peanut gallery and see what brainstorming we can come up with.

The campaign is not fully fleshed out yet (we haven't even had the Session Zero yet), but in the general terms we were thinking of - it would be a smaller scope game and not a galaxy trotting arc that will shake the pillars of heaven. The game would be set in an urban setting, something like the Downbelow of Taris or Nar Shadaa (mind you, not an entire planet of scum and villainy - but something where life is cheap and laws are loose). Our group would be part of a street gang in this seamy underbelly. If this were a Superhero, we'd be leaning more towards the Batman side of things instead of Superman. Small and personal set in one town vs saving the world once a week.

My concept would be a Hard Man with a softer interior. Originally, before we started brainstorming the setting, I was thinking something like a bouncer at a House of Ill Repute who is very protective of the staff. Get out of line with one of the ladies and he'll break your arm off and serve it at a buffet. I was also thinking of making him with a wealth of untapped force potential that he unlocks with a holochron. The twist? The holochron is a sith artifact. However instead of being a Mustache twirling Snidely Whiplash over the top holochon, it's subtle, smoothly seductive and perfectly reasonable. Less " UNNNNLIMITED POW-AHHHHHH! " and more "That enemy on the ledge? Oh sure you could shoot him - but that'll make all kinds of noise. Why don't you just nudge him off to his death with the power of your mind? Much more quiet that way."

So he's falling to the dark side simply because he doesn't know any better. And he'll be the only Jedi on the team, so there will be no pesky "You shouldn't do that!" nagging to get in the way of his story arc. And I kind of want to really push hard on the Morality engine, see what happens when you aren't afraid to occasionally use those dark pips and try really leaning on the "You just unnecessarily broke that guy's nose. Have five conflict" mechanic.

But as far as career or archetype goes? I have no trouble starting in Edge and buying the FSE tree straight away. I'm also fine with starting with one of the F&D classes too. My short list of careers consists of Warden, Aggressor, Enforcer or perhaps that Kung Fu guy from the new book - I've not had a chance to really dig into the tree yet. I'm staying away from any lightsaber trees, since we're wont be playing that sort of flashy, showy game.

What am I looking for here? You know, I'm not really sure - beyond a forum to hear my head rattle as I describe my concept. Any random thoughts or musings I guess, something to spark that "Ah hah!" moment.

Warden sounds perfect for a FS Bouncer. But I can see the appeal for Enforce/FSE.

Interesting concept. I had a hard time picturing it at first, but I think it has good potential.

WWell, Martial Artist's Supreme Precision Strike allows the character to deliver some brutal but effective critical injuries; just the ruthlessness a bouncer would need, but dark enough to cross into the "excessive force" side of things for a Force user.

Although Enforcer/Martial Artist/Exile would work, it's pricey and may take too long to get off the ground.

I concur that Guardian/Warden is a good place to start, adding Martial Artist, then maybe Aggressor. Go for Enhance, as it's a more "intuitive" power than others, and easier to tempt with.

"Just break his legs next time. It'll be easy with your strength..."

23 minutes ago, kaosoe said:

I had a hard time picturing it at first, but I think it has good potential.

Yeah, that's kind of the problem I'm running into - great high level concept, but man, pulling those threads together into a cohesive form is a real bear. Stats? easy. The character behind those stats? That'll be the real work.

13 minutes ago, Blackbird888 said:

Although Enforcer/Martial Artist/Exile would work, it's pricey and may take too long to get off the ground.

The main attraction to going the Enforcer -> Exile -> Warden route? I really love the Last Man Standing signature ability. That is such a fun ability, and perfect for the "When you absolutely, positively have to clear every motherfer out of the room" part of the character. Plus the FSE has some great latent and subconscious usages of the Force - I might pick up that tree even if I go with a F&D career to start.

I have a very similar concept for my Warden besalisk. Fearsome and baleful glare are proving to be a nice rp'ing tool to represent his struggles with the darkside. I went into marauder for the feral strength so that I could compete as a pure brawler. 2 FR is proving fine to make Enhance work well so I was thinking about continuing in a non-F&D class. Likely either Martial Artist or Enforcer depending on how dark he goes.

Warden is definitely a great fit, Baleful Gaze and Overwhelm fit really well.

If cunning and intellect are also important aspects of the character then Shadow would fit nicely as well, use well rounded to get Brawl and perhaps Coercion as career skills. Plenty of Underworld and Streetwise ability, less obvious when needed, can keep those Dark acts more secret. It fits the feel of the subtle holocron idea you have. Probably the Influence and Enhance Force Powers for social and brawling. A later move into Warden or Martial Artist would cement your brawl prowess.

You should totally start with Morality 29 too

20 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

Warden is definitely a great fit, Baleful Gaze and Overwhelm fit really well.

I'm really torn between the Warden and the Aggressor - both are great and serve the concept. As badassed as the Ten Yard Death Stare and Overwhelm are, I think I'm leaning away from Warden ever so slightly because I just did a Politico who Scathing Tiraded all over the place and I'd like to try something brand new. The game is four years old and I'm still experiencing "Oooh! New character mechanics!" syndrome.

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You should totally start with Morality 29 too

I thought about that - but I kind of want to explore the accidental decent into darkness. Starting out at 29 feels like shortcutting the journey too much.

Best career skill spread by best first Talent row. That's my typical advice to people. You realize your concept the fastest.

What will be the character's job/role on the team? Goon? Thug? Muscle? Boss? Bodyguard? Gunman? Street guru? Creeper?

What species are you considering?

Personally I see the colonist: marshal as the perfect choice for a campaign based around a local community. And compared to warden he is more of the "though guy with a heart of gold" type. You know, the guy who people ask to bring justice when law enforcement does not even bother to come down to the undercity. A solid amount of bad cop in that character concept. *grin* If your idea is more focused on just the girls from the brothel then as everyone said, warden fits the bill rather well too.

As a GM I would still allow you to start with morality 29 if this is a knight level campaign, at least if you take the force exile or emergent directly on top. Though starting with no extra xp as marschal and learn to open the holocron after the first session … a low fall to the darkside begins with the first steps into the force … or start really directly as warden like everyone said. Both ideas seem to work rather well for your concept.

7 hours ago, 2P51 said:

Best career skill spread by best first Talent row. That's my typical advice to people. You realize your concept the fastest.

So warden it is as intimidation is right there for 5 points. Though most specs have rather boring first rows and get to the meaty stuff in row two or three. Career skills are certainly worth looking into, the one that suits you better are usually the right choice. Many specs come with the right core skills for your idea, but lack often in the details and flavor career skills. The things which don't 100% define your spec, but define your character.

edit: Oh and Gadgeteer fits the bill, but is imo too technical. There is a lot of gadgeteering in the career skills and talents, which is super cool, but does not seem to fit the bill of this specific character concept- Gadgeteers are nerd-enforcers.

Just to make your head hurt more, really look at Gadgeteer. It's not what people think of typically as goon knuckle dragger, but look at the Talents and skill spread.

So, you're basically Luke Cage? Then you should definitely go with the Aggressor. Enough different ways to fight, Knowledge (Underworld) and Streetwise to find your way around the criminal parts of your town and Coercion and the Fearsome, Intimidating and Terrify talent to make the antihero part stand out.

You know what, Vanguard would make an excellent second spec for this character, the career skills are not that great so it's not much chop to start out in. But those Bodyguard talents, moving target, Rapid Reaction, even Supressing fire (as you subdue the crowds around you with a kick and punch here and there), lots of toughened helps too.

Perhaps start in Protector, taking the centre two columns, skip the Force Protection. You have some decent skills and nice thematic talents, then dip into Vanguard and finally Aggressor to terrify before pounding.

For that matter the character is an Aggressive Protector, so just Protector Aggressor with a beefy Brawn and Willpower would work well.

2 hours ago, RLogue177 said:

What will be the character's job/role on the team? Goon? Thug? Muscle? Boss? Bodyguard? Gunman? Street guru? Creeper?

What species are you considering?

Probably Human - at least for the moment (or perhaps a variant. I kind of like the idea of not necessarily a pacifist, but a Mandolorian who's all "Knock off with all that 'It is a GOOD day to DIE!!!' nonsense" when his broskis start puffing up for war that I came up in the Rebels thread).

As for what I'll be doing on the team, we're still in the high level discussion phase, so I don't think the others even have anything concrete yet. However given a free reign, I'd probably go in-your-face (or more accurately punch-your-face) Meat Shield. It's been a long time since I've done one of those, and never under the FFG engine.

2 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

edit: Oh and Gadgeteer fits the bill, but is imo too technical. There is a lot of gadgeteering in the career skills and talents, which is super cool, but does not seem to fit the bill of this specific character concept- Gadgeteers are nerd-enforcers.

Oooh, the marshal is a strong choice too, and the Make Things Easier sig ability is pretty tasty. Yeah, kind of a Dirty Harry "awww, whining about your civil rights? Here's a quarter so you can blubber into a phone to your lawyer. I think you have an unbroken finger or two to dial with. . . ." kind of guy.

As for Gadgeteer, I'm already elbows deep into a Mechanic/Outlaw Tech/Build-and-Tinker-Everything-Under-the-Sun character, and while I love playing her, I'd like to go sample another archetype.

2 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

For that matter the character is an Aggressive Protector, so just Protector Aggressor with a beefy Brawn and Willpower would work well.

Assuming that I wind up with Human (or an offshoot), I was thinking of 3s for Brawn and Will. And looking over the Aggressor/Protector combo, that's pretty choice.

You people do realize that I'm trying to narrow down choices, not expand them, right?

Gadgeteer has 2 ranks of Brawl, 2 ranks of Intimidating, Deadly Accuracy, Improved Stunning Blow, and Crippling Blow, which all stack to make a very hard hitting Brawler and solid arm twister.

It has Tinkerer, Armor Master/Improved, and Jury Rigged to make that armored clothing leather swoop bike jacket with Superior into a Soak 3 Defense 2 space 'full patched' enforcer jacket.

Who said a beat down man can't have some gear?

My initial thought is to just go Enforcer/FSEx. It gets you that nice Sig ability, and is very in theme for you concept. It's the choice I would make. However:

43 minutes ago, Desslok said:

As for what I'll be doing on the team, we're still in the high level discussion phase, so I don't think the others even have anything concrete yet. However given a free reign, I'd probably go in-your-face (or more accurately punch-your-face) Meat Shield. It's been a long time since I've done one of those, and never under the FFG engine.

I'm actually going to agree with Buxton that a Protector/Aggressor combo will do well for you. Starting as a Guardian, Fated Duel (that's what it's called, right? AFB) is a good Sig ability to negate one big bad threat from hurting your buddies. And you'd get cheaper access to Warden for some more Brawl goodness.

I really like the Enforcer spec, didn't get too far in a pbp with one, but it was fun while it lasted.

I have a player with an Enforcer/FSEx and though the player's comfort spot is the wise-cracking charmer, he's really getting a kick out of his tough guy, and plays him to the hilt. The ranks of Fearsome, maxed out Enhance, and FR2 give him a large range of physical options, and high Willpower + Intimidating gives him impressive Coercion, often stopping fights before they start...

Like tonight. I had a bar brawl all planned, and with a lucky Streetwise he saw the play: a table of thugs working for an enemy waiting for him. So instead of hiding, he tells the waitress to buy them all a round, then saunters over giving them a feral grin.

"What's up boys? Are we gonna make a mess in here?"

"Nah, it's a nice place, let's finish our drinks and go outside."

"We could. But maybe you should tell me what this is all about."
"<boss name>, you trashed his place, he's going to have a 'talk' with you..."

"Talk?" He whips out his comm. "We can talk now and get it over with. What's his number? I'm not asking twice..."

Cue sound of GM head popping as all his plans go awry. Basically, even though the thugs weren't pushovers, and I stacked the boss' Willpower, added setback, etc, he managed to get a Triumph, successes, and advantages, and closed a loose thread in the plot. Then he bought the thugs dinner

Sadly, no bar brawl, but now there are four capable tough guys who think maybe working for him might be a better idea than what they're currently doing...

That's an awesome role play!

Okay, after watching a week of Spaghetti Westerns, I had an epiphany about my concept. One of the many tropes deployed in a typical Spaghetti Western is a union (or confederate) solider drifting and doing good. Ah hah, I though! How could would it be to play someone who fought in the civil clone war on the losing side, still kind of clinging to The Glory of The South, even wearing his old, worn, confederate union greatcoat. From there, the rest of the history fell into place, more or less. Here, take a look at my bullet point list:

* Born and raised on a family owned repair and fueling space station on a mid rim world. It's not a huge facility, but a very successful operation on a local level.

* His father ran off when he was very young, leaving him to be raised by mom and the station mechanics.

* * The region the planet was located was always overlooked by the Republic. It's not central and powerful like the worlds of the core, and it's not exciting and resource heavy and exploitable like the outer rim. So the discontent government was one of the first worlds to throw in with the confederacy during the Separatist Crisis. I imagined him kind of young and impressionable, so much like soldiers too young to serve in WWI, he lied about his age and joined the planetary self defense force as soon as they wouldn't look at him and his age too funny..

* He fought with the Confederacy during dozens of engagements, both on his world and in neighboring systems, eventually rising to command a squad/battalion/whatever in the CSA. His squad was engaged with Republic forces at the very end of the clone wars, when the surrender order came from on high. Suddenly all across the battlefield, the battle droids simply shut down where they were. Without the firepower supplied by the clankers, the remaining troops were instantly overwhelmed.

* Captured and sent to a POW camp while the terms of surrender were hammered out. As I suspect that dealing with disloyal traitors was a low priority, for the Empire during the conversion from the Republic, the prison was in operation for some time after the end of the war. He spent a year in captivity simply lost in the bureaucratic shuffle.

* Upon release, he returned home to find that the family space station had been nationalized. The facility is currently run by the eldest brother, who threw the parents under the bus for a position of power within the new Empire.

* Since then, he's drifted selling his skill to whoever needs it, eventually settling into the Bouncer/Professional Leg Breaker job that I originally had in mind.

There, that should give him a serious rebellious streak, coupled with an anti-authority stance. A little polish and that should be plenty of meat for a GM to sink his teeth into.

11 minutes ago, Desslok said:

Okay, after watching a week of Spaghetti Westerns, I had an epiphany about my concept. One of the many tropes deployed in a typical Spaghetti Western is a union (or confederate) solider drifting and doing good. Ah hah, I though! How could would it be to play someone who fought in the civil clone war on the losing side, still kind of clinging to The Glory of The South, even wearing his old, worn, confederate union greatcoat. From there, the rest of the history fell into place, more or less. Here, take a look at my bullet point list:

* Born and raised on a family owned repair and fueling space station on a mid rim world. It's not a huge facility, but a very successful operation on a local level.

* His father ran off when he was very young, leaving him to be raised by mom and the station mechanics.

* * The region the planet was located was always overlooked by the Republic. It's not central and powerful like the worlds of the core, and it's not exciting and resource heavy and exploitable like the outer rim. So the discontent government was one of the first worlds to throw in with the confederacy during the Separatist Crisis. I imagined him kind of young and impressionable, so much like soldiers too young to serve in WWI, he lied about his age and joined the planetary self defense force as soon as they wouldn't look at him and his age too funny..

* He fought with the Confederacy during dozens of engagements, both on his world and in neighboring systems, eventually rising to command a squad/battalion/whatever in the CSA. His squad was engaged with Republic forces at the very end of the clone wars, when the surrender order came from on high. Suddenly all across the battlefield, the battle droids simply shut down where they were. Without the firepower supplied by the clankers, the remaining troops were instantly overwhelmed.

* Captured and sent to a POW camp while the terms of surrender were hammered out. As I suspect that dealing with disloyal traitors was a low priority, for the Empire during the conversion from the Republic, the prison was in operation for some time after the end of the war. He spent a year in captivity simply lost in the bureaucratic shuffle.

* Upon release, he returned home to find that the family space station had been nationalized. The facility is currently run by the eldest brother, who threw the parents under the bus for a position of power within the new Empire.

* Since then, he's drifted selling his skill to whoever needs it, eventually settling into the Bouncer/Professional Leg Breaker job that I originally had in mind.

There, that should give him a serious rebellious streak, coupled with an anti-authority stance. A little polish and that should be plenty of meat for a GM to sink his teeth into.

So...you're basically playing Mal from Firefly? Fought on losing side, still wears his coat, has anger issues from that time, and now does whatever work he can, without any real thought to the consequences or morality of it.

I do like that a lot, however I think you really had something as a bouncer at a brothel, maybe his mom was a woman of the night who met her untimely end due to a bad john. Pushes him into doing bad things to bad people for a good reason.

1 hour ago, KungFuFerret said:

So...you're basically playing Mal from Firefly? Fought on losing side, still wears his coat, has anger issues from that time, and now does whatever work he can, without any real thought to the consequences or morality of it.

Well, technically I'm playing Django, without the coffin full of machine gun:

(spoiler - never saw Firefly beyond one episode 10 years ago. It didn't do much for me)

49 minutes ago, TheShard said:

I do like that a lot, however I think you really had something as a bouncer at a brothel, maybe his mom was a woman of the night who met her untimely end due to a bad john. Pushes him into doing bad things to bad people for a good reason.

Well, it's still a work in progress. As we're nowhere near done with the current game, I'm only giving it passing thoughts.

Besides - he could have settled down into the bouncer roll for a while, something he's been doing well before the game open. I do like the A-Team mentality, doing bad things to bad people on behalf of good people - so that's staying for sure.

Is this for a pbp or real life?